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RE: respawning CS?

 
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RE: respawning CS? - 3/5/2010 1:59:38 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 15237
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: online 		@ Freeboy: I understand your frustration. This (no CV respawn in official scenarios) comes as a surprise to me as well, and I'm a pretty regular forum lurker / spammer. Clarification of the documentation would have helped clarify this pretty early after release, wouldn't it? I wonder if RRoberson knows his sunk carriers won't respawn?

Not to diminish your understandable disappointment with the documentation of this change, but do you think that having 4 fewer Essex Class CVs will upset gameplay substantially? In reality, aren't you just pushing the last 4 Essexes 'back' a bit in their slip times? If you were to rename the incoming Essexes to reflect the loss of earlier carriers (basically 'force' a respawn by a combination of renaming / pushing back), how far off the mark in carrier deployment will you be?

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Post #: 31
RE: respawning CS? - 3/5/2010 2:36:43 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline 		So the game is now unplayable?

The hyperbole here is getting ridiculous. Well I guess I'll have a strained neck by the end of the day because I'll keep looking up to see when the sky is going to hit me on the head...because around here it certainly seems like the sky is falling.

Seems that there are plenty of ongoing PBeM and AI games that appear to be very playable and haven't been affected because the official scenario designers decided to turn Respawn - OFF for the Official scenarios. I suppose they could have just removed the option entirely...silly them for giving us options.




< Message edited by treespider -- 3/5/2010 2:37:26 PM >

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Post #: 32
RE: respawning CS? - 3/5/2010 3:05:07 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

right, but we play officail scens again pbem oponenets.. so thatis not an option! Really.. its inclusion in the manual is FUBAR.. but at least we know the feature is not available.. I do recall the folks talking about no alleid cv respawn, so I was aware of that aspect...
AND I do get the historical renamed cv's with the nifty rename feature..


You can play anything PBEM if you and your opponent agree. Why do you think it is restricted to official scenarios?

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Post #: 33
RE: respawning CS? - 7/15/2010 4:31:15 AM   
wneumann


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2005
From: just beyond the outskirts of Margaritaville
Status: offline 		Not to lengthen the discussion, but a question.

I'm playing a PBEM, Scenario #6 unmodified, for which I'm assuming respawn is "off". When looking at my reinforcement list for carriers. I am seeing the "Lexington II", "Yorktown II", etc.

My question is this... with respawn "off", do these carriers ("Lexington II", "Yorktown II", etc) enter the game at their appointed time regardless of events, or do I have to lose the original Lexington in order to receive the "Lexington II" (and so on)? And if I don't lose the original Lexington, does the "Lexington II" enter the game anyway as the Lexington II since it's listed as a reinforcement?

Accepting the fact respawn is very likely "off" in my PBEM, I'm approaching the question from the standpoint of understanding and adapting to how this works as it applies to my circumstances. My interest is not debating so much the pros and cons, but more the question of "... this ship appears on my reinforcement list, is it really a reinforcement that definately appears in the game when it's stated to arrive, or is its scheduled appearance somewhat less than definate?".

I will also note for purposes of this question that no US carriers have been lost in my PBEM as of 12/28/41, so the original Lexington, Yorktown, etc are still up and around when I raised the question.

Nothing against a passionate debate... but information does have a way of getting lost in the passion.

< Message edited by wneumann -- 7/15/2010 4:35:35 AM >

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Post #: 34
RE: respawning CS? - 7/15/2010 7:01:50 AM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 896
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Schleiden, Germany
Status: offline 		a) respawn off: All ships listed in the reinforcement screen will arrive at the listed date. So Lexington 2 will arrive even if Lexington is still around; If you want to, you can rename them before they arrive.
b) respawn on: All aspects named under a) still apply. In addition, allied CVs, CAs, CLs and jap midgets are respawned when they are lost (before 1944). So in addition to Lexington 2, you would also get a Lexington 3.

In the original WITP, the ships which took the names of sunken ships where not in. So if you kept all allied carriers, you would not get the Essex carriers Wasp 2, Lexington 2, Yorktown 2 etc. They would only appear when the original ship was sunk before 1944. This has changed in AE.



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Post #: 35
RE: respawning CS? - 7/15/2010 8:47:51 AM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1097
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Hmm so its not possible to turn it on in an ongoing scen 2 game ?

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Post #: 36
RE: respawning CS? - 7/15/2010 12:47:07 PM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 708
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		As I understand it, with this option off, every American CV, CA, and CL lost in the actual war is "respawned" (replaced) by the appropriate craft.

Whereas, with this option ON, you have to get the Lexington sunk in order to get the Lexington II.

With this option OFF, you get the Lexington II no matter what - no need to sink the Lexington first.

So, with this option OFF, the allies are better off if they can keep 3 or more starting carriers afloat, no worse off if they keep 2 starting carriers afloat, and worse off if they keep only 1 or 0 of the starting carriers afloat.

Right?

(in reply to Gräfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 37
RE: respawning CS? - 7/15/2010 2:15:40 PM   
ckammp

 

Posts: 751
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From: Rear Area training facility
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thayne

As I understand it, with this option off, every American CV, CA, and CL lost in the actual war is "respawned" (replaced) by the appropriate craft.

Whereas, with this option ON, you have to get the Lexington sunk in order to get the Lexington II.

With this option OFF, you get the Lexington II no matter what - no need to sink the Lexington first.

So, with this option OFF, the allies are better off if they can keep 3 or more starting carriers afloat, no worse off if they keep 2 starting carriers afloat, and worse off if they keep only 1 or 0 of the starting carriers afloat.

Right?



With respawn ON, the Allied player will receive replacement US CVs and US/Australian CAs, if the ships are sunk prior to 1944. These replacements are in addition to any ships in the replacement list, and will have the same name as the ship they are replacing.
For example, if the Enterprise is sunk in 41/42/43, the Allied player will receive a replacement CV named Enterprise.
If the Lexington is sunk in 41/42/43, the Allied player will receive a replacement CV named Lexington; this ship is in addition to Lexington II.

With respawn OFF, the Allied player will receive all scheduled ships in the replacement list, but will not receive any extra ships if a CV or CA is sunk prior to 1944.
For example, the Allied player will receive Lexington II whether or not the Lexington is sunk; but if the Enterprise is sunk, the Allied player will not receive another CV named Enterprise.

Note that having respawn ON is not that big of an advantage. Respawned CVs usually take at least 18 months to return, and don't come with any air groups. (You have to pay PPs to bring them back from the destroyed air group list)
Respawned CAs usally take 2.5-3 years to return.
Also, the respawned CVs and CAs will usually return as the same class they were when sunk, not as Essex-class CV or Baltimore-class CA.

(in reply to Thayne)
Post #: 38
RE: respawning CS? - 7/15/2010 2:40:58 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2639
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		I don't have the respawn option on, playing Scenario 2  and just got the Lexington II, even though the original Lady Lex is still doing fine.  In fact, I've lost no CV's so I'll be seeing a Yorktown II, Wasp II and Hornet II in a little while.  Not too bothered about the cruisers not respawning; I'm getting plenty of Columbia and Baltimore class ships already.

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Post #: 39
RE: respawning CS? - 7/15/2010 5:13:58 PM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 1890
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I don't have the respawn option on, playing Scenario 2  and just got the Lexington II, even though the original Lady Lex is still doing fine.  In fact, I've lost no CV's so I'll be seeing a Yorktown II, Wasp II and Hornet II in a little while.  Not too bothered about the cruisers not respawning; I'm getting plenty of Columbia and Baltimore class ships already.

The default scenarios have Lex, Wasp, York and Hornet come in as II. You can rename them before they arrive. Their are also about five or six cruisers that come in with names for previous ships and you can rename them as well.

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Post #: 40
RE: respawning Ca's - 7/15/2010 6:27:16 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6401
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

I believe you can edit, then save the new scenario at a different location, greater than slot 25.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


I'm playing Scenario 2, edited, with respawn on, from Save Slot 35.

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Post #: 41
RE: respawning Ca's - 7/15/2010 10:23:57 PM   
wneumann


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2005
From: just beyond the outskirts of Margaritaville
Status: offline 		Some pretty good answers to my question. Thanx to all who posted.

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Post #: 42
RE: respawning CS? - 7/16/2010 12:45:09 PM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 708
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp

With respawn ON, the Allied player will receive replacement US CVs and US/Australian CAs, if the ships are sunk prior to 1944. These replacements are in addition to any ships in the replacement list, and will have the same name as the ship they are replacing.
For example, if the Enterprise is sunk in 41/42/43, the Allied player will receive a replacement CV named Enterprise.
If the Lexington is sunk in 41/42/43, the Allied player will receive a replacement CV named Lexington; this ship is in addition to Lexington II.


So, just to be specific:

With Respawn on, if the Lexington is sunk in the game before 1944, I will get Lexington II (because the Lexington was sunk in the actual war and thus is listed on the reinforcement list as Lexington II with a specific arrival date), and a new Lexington (because the Lexington was sunk in the game before 1944.

Which means that, by the time the game ends, I will have had three carriers: Lexington I, Lexington II, and Lexington Respawn.

Or is it the case that if Respawn is on, Lexington II disappears from the reinforcement list UNLESS the original Lexington is sunk, at which point it will be added to the reinforcement list as Lexington Respawn?

The former might not be that big of an advantage. It just seems to me that with Respawn on, all of the II ships would have been removed from the list unless and until the I unit had been sunk.

Thayne

(in reply to ckammp)
Post #: 43
RE: respawning CS? - 7/16/2010 1:22:43 PM   
ckammp

 

Posts: 751
Joined: 5/30/2009
From: Rear Area training facility
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thayne


quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp

With respawn ON, the Allied player will receive replacement US CVs and US/Australian CAs, if the ships are sunk prior to 1944. These replacements are in addition to any ships in the replacement list, and will have the same name as the ship they are replacing.
For example, if the Enterprise is sunk in 41/42/43, the Allied player will receive a replacement CV named Enterprise.
If the Lexington is sunk in 41/42/43, the Allied player will receive a replacement CV named Lexington; this ship is in addition to Lexington II.


So, just to be specific:

With Respawn on, if the Lexington is sunk in the game before 1944, I will get Lexington II (because the Lexington was sunk in the actual war and thus is listed on the reinforcement list as Lexington II with a specific arrival date), and a new Lexington (because the Lexington was sunk in the game before 1944.

Which means that, by the time the game ends, I will have had three carriers: Lexington I, Lexington II, and Lexington Respawn.

Or is it the case that if Respawn is on, Lexington II disappears from the reinforcement list UNLESS the original Lexington is sunk, at which point it will be added to the reinforcement list as Lexington Respawn?

The former might not be that big of an advantage. It just seems to me that with Respawn on, all of the II ships would have been removed from the list unless and until the I unit had been sunk.

Thayne



With "Respawn" ON, if Lexington is sunk before 1944, you will receive a replacement CV named Lexington. This ship is in addition to the Lexington II.
So, yes, with Respawn ON you will get Lexington, Lexington II, and Lexington Respawn (if Lexington is sunk prior to 1944).

With "Respawn ON, if Lexington is not sunk, you will still receive Lexington II.

All the ships with "II" in their names in the replacement list reflect the actual historical ships that were launched by the Allies. Those ships with "II" in their name can be re-named while in the replacement list. (As they were historically re-named while under construction)
Note, however, that if playing with "Respawn" ON, you can not re-name any ships.

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Post #: 44
RE: respawning CS? - 7/16/2010 5:23:40 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6401
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp

Note, however, that if playing with "Respawn" ON, you can not re-name any ships.


Anal-Retentive Nit-Pick Question #1:

I'm playing an edited Scenario 2 with Respawn on. In the editor, before I started, I renamed the II-carriers in the Ships tab. Do those changes hold, or do the ships revert to the II-names when they come out of the queue onto the map?

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Post #: 45
RE: respawning CS? - 7/16/2010 6:02:56 PM   
ckammp

 

Posts: 751
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From: Rear Area training facility
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp

Note, however, that if playing with "Respawn" ON, you can not re-name any ships.


Anal-Retentive Nit-Pick Question #1:

I'm playing an edited Scenario 2 with Respawn on. In the editor, before I started, I renamed the II-carriers in the Ships tab. Do those changes hold, or do the ships revert to the II-names when they come out of the queue onto the map?



The in-game names will be what you changed them to in the editor; they will not revert to "II" names.

Note that more classes than CVs have "II" names; there are several CAs, DDs and SSs as well. Like the CVs, if you have "Respawn" ON, the names can not be changed in-game, only thru the editor.

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Post #: 46
RE: respawning CS? - 7/16/2010 6:14:44 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6576
Joined: 7/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Anal-Retentive Nit-Pick Question #1:
I'm playing an edited Scenario 2 with Respawn on. In the editor, before I started, I renamed the II-carriers in the Ships tab. Do those changes hold, or do the ships revert to the II-names when they come out of the queue onto the map?

Anal-Retentive Answer #1:
What you put into your scenario database through the editor is what the computer program reads and processes and displays. How would a computer program know that the USS Boris Badenov is really supposed to be the USS Frostbite Falls II ?



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Post #: 47
RE: respawning CS? - 7/16/2010 6:31:32 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Anal-Retentive Answer #1:
What you put into your scenario database through the editor is what the computer program reads and processes and displays. How would a computer program know that the USS Boris Badenov is really supposed to be the USS Frostbite Falls II ?



Ah...but what if the femme fatale Natasha were to be secreted into the program?

Alfred

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Post #: 48
RE: respawning CS? - 7/16/2010 7:11:30 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
Ah...but what if the femme fatale Natasha were to be secreted into the program?

Alfred

Oh, yeah, Natasha was hot. But her legs were too skinny to let her be a capital ship.

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Post #: 49
RE: respawning CS? - 7/16/2010 8:05:34 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 678
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		European Capital ships had short legs  

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Post #: 50
RE: respawning CS? - 7/16/2010 8:18:02 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6401
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp


The in-game names will be what you changed them to in the editor; they will not revert to "II" names.

Note that more classes than CVs have "II" names; there are several CAs, DDs and SSs as well. Like the CVs, if you have "Respawn" ON, the names can not be changed in-game, only thru the editor.


I figured they wouldn't change back, but you never know.

I did see a lot of CAs with the II designation. I didn't notice any SSes; I'll have a look. I recall in RL there was a Shark II, and I think she was sunk as well (from memory.) Probbaly other RL IIes I'm forgetting.

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Post #: 51
RE: respawning CS? - 7/16/2010 8:19:06 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6401
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Anal-Retentive Nit-Pick Question #1:
I'm playing an edited Scenario 2 with Respawn on. In the editor, before I started, I renamed the II-carriers in the Ships tab. Do those changes hold, or do the ships revert to the II-names when they come out of the queue onto the map?

Anal-Retentive Answer #1:
What you put into your scenario database through the editor is what the computer program reads and processes and displays. How would a computer program know that the USS Boris Badenov is really supposed to be the USS Frostbite Falls II ?




Only if the II-names were in that Highly Feared, Never-Seen .EXE file.

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Post #: 52
RE: respawning CS? - 7/16/2010 8:20:02 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6401
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
Ah...but what if the femme fatale Natasha were to be secreted into the program?

Alfred

Oh, yeah, Natasha was hot. But her legs were too skinny to let her be a capital ship.


But those main batteries!! Humma humma. (Insert rim shot here . . .)

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Post #: 53
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