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how to use the attack planner - 2/14/2010 10:28:48 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 34473
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: online 		I've had somebody ask me how to use the attack planner so I put together an html document with instructions and pictures to explain it briefly. Somebody else might have that same question and if you do you can find the document here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d2mnmm5n1n0
Post #: 1
RE: how to use the attack planner - 2/14/2010 2:48:17 PM   
Major Shane


Posts: 165
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks Larry. I thought I previously understood what the boxes in the atk planner meant, but I really didn't. Thanks for explaining.

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Post #: 2
RE: how to use the attack planner - 2/14/2010 8:01:00 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 34473
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: online 		I forgot to explain the color of the flags on the units




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3
RE: how to use the attack planner - 2/15/2010 6:20:46 PM   
vsadek


Posts: 125
Joined: 1/3/2010
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Good man! Thank you Larry for this explanation.

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Post #: 4
RE: how to use the attack planner - 2/15/2010 8:40:54 PM   
MarGol

 

Posts: 98
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		Another useful thing about the attack planner: The 'up' and 'down' arrows in the planner can be used to scroll through all attacks planned so far. I find this handy when I realize that some already planned attack will burn the turn, and want to find that particular attack (watch the 'Time expended' boxes until you find the attack with more than one gold box).

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Post #: 5
RE: how to use the attack planner - 2/17/2010 5:59:31 PM   
sapper32


Posts: 1065
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From: Warminster England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarGol

Another useful thing about the attack planner: The 'up' and 'down' arrows in the planner can be used to scroll through all attacks planned so far. I find this handy when I realize that some already planned attack will burn the turn, and want to find that particular attack (watch the 'Time expended' boxes until you find the attack with more than one gold box).


I have never realized that thanks for that little gem of information Martin

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Post #: 6
RE: how to use the attack planner - 11/18/2010 10:12:03 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 34473
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: online 		Ok, the Attack Planner has changed a bit and now we have an AR number to gauge things by. I have a question though about what the number means. In the picture below I see an AR number over 300+ and STILL the attack planner says that I should expect "heavy losses". Why would losses be heavy if I have more than a 3 to 1 advantage over the defender?




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RE: how to use the attack planner - 11/19/2010 1:14:15 PM   
MilRevKo

 

Posts: 291
Joined: 11/8/2006
From: Main Line, PA
Status: offline 		Can you describe: No coop=severe turn burn?

THX

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RE: how to use the attack planner - 11/19/2010 7:07:16 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 34473
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: MilRevKo
Can you describe: No coop=severe turn burn?

Yes, if there's a unit involved in the combat and it's one of the no cooperation ones, then the turn will suffer more of a turn burn than it usually would have. That's my understanding.

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Post #: 9
RE: how to use the attack planner - 11/20/2010 5:18:31 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 10657
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Ok, the Attack Planner has changed a bit and now we have an AR number to gauge things by. I have a question though about what the number means. In the picture below I see an AR number over 300+ and STILL the attack planner says that I should expect "heavy losses". Why would losses be heavy if I have more than a 3 to 1 advantage over the defender?


The AR is only concerned with whether the attack will be evaluated as an ant attack to one extent or another. In this case it won't be. (Any AR value of 100 or more is guaranteed to be a normal attack). The 348 number seems a little large, just looking at it, but remember that attacker AP and AT values have to be considered proportionately to the defender composition. Maybe that's why.

The evaluation of the attack itself, doesn't look so favorable - not much better than 1:1.

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Post #: 10
RE: how to use the attack planner - 11/20/2010 10:51:59 PM   
toawfan

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 11/16/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Ok, the Attack Planner has changed a bit and now we have an AR number to gauge things by. I have a question though about what the number means. In the picture below I see an AR number over 300+ and STILL the attack planner says that I should expect "heavy losses". Why would losses be heavy if I have more than a 3 to 1 advantage over the defender?


The AR is only concerned with whether the attack will be evaluated as an ant attack to one extent or another. In this case it won't be. (Any AR value of 100 or more is guaranteed to be a normal attack). The 348 number seems a little large, just looking at it, but remember that attacker AP and AT values have to be considered proportionately to the defender composition. Maybe that's why.

The evaluation of the attack itself, doesn't look so favorable - not much better than 1:1.


I don't understand this answer. I don't know what an ant attack is. Also don't know what AR means and what the 348 is really telling me.

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Post #: 11
RE: how to use the attack planner - 11/21/2010 2:04:29 AM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 10657
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quote:

ORIGINAL: toawfan

I don't understand this answer. I don't know what an ant attack is. Also don't know what AR means and what the 348 is really telling me.


Read section III of the 3.4 "What's New".

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Post #: 12
RE: how to use the attack planner - 12/11/2010 12:42:37 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 1750
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		A question regarding the turn burn, has the unit color schema an impact on the turn burn even if a gold flag appears?

I just try to find out why I have such a high turn burn in the Poland 39 scenario, in that scenario some units have a totally different color schema but look similar to the others by using modified graphic files.
To see what I mean simply move the graphic files out of the Graphics/Poland 39 folder and load it.

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RE: how to use the attack planner - 12/11/2010 7:13:02 PM   
toawfan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: toawfan

I don't understand this answer. I don't know what an ant attack is. Also don't know what AR means and what the 348 is really telling me.


Read section III of the 3.4 "What's New".


I have and still don't understand. Sorry. What does 348 really mean? 348 percent of what?

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Post #: 14
RE: how to use the attack planner - 12/11/2010 10:59:57 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 34473
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: toawfan
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
quote:

ORIGINAL: toawfan
I don't understand this answer. I don't know what an ant attack is. Also don't know what AR means and what the 348 is really telling me.

Read section III of the 3.4 "What's New".

I have and still don't understand. Sorry. What does 348 really mean? 348 percent of what?

I'd like to hear the answer to that myself. And I've read the 'What's New' also.

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Post #: 15
RE: how to use the attack planner - 12/11/2010 11:19:16 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 10657
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: toawfan

I have and still don't understand. Sorry. What does 348 really mean? 348 percent of what?


Then I'm assuming you now know what an "ant" unit is:

There are two new features that attempt to make the employment of “Ant Units” (very small and inconsequential units relative to most units in the scenario) useless.

If so, the AR is used to determine if the attack is an ant attack, and penalize it accordingly if it is one.

The ratio is Attacker Assault Strength to Defender Defense Strength. So, 348 means that the Attacker Assault Strength is 3.48 times the Defender Defense Strength.

Any AR greater than 100 is guaranteed to not be evaluated as an ant attack, and will, therefore, not be penalized in any way. (It will be resolved just as attacks have always been resolved in earlier versions).

As the AR drops below 100 there is more and more chance of penalties for being evaluated as an ant attack.

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Post #: 16
RE: how to use the attack planner - 12/12/2010 12:43:24 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 34473
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: online 		Oh.  Okie dokie.  *Now* I understand.  Thanks for that.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 12/28/2010 5:26:22 AM >

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Post #: 17
RE: how to use the attack planner - 12/14/2010 2:20:13 AM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6561
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline 		A couple of notes on this item. I believe this is explained in the 'what's new'

Since toaw doesn't have simple attack and defense strengths, it also takes into account the percent of the defenders who are armored. If you've got infantry against tanks, you're going to see a pretty small value for the AR. It's mainly there to show you if you are going to execute an attack at less than 1:1 odds (100) which don't have the same effect.

Also, the combat algorithms now take the cooperation into account, so there is an even more severe penalty for adding in uncooperating units, or stacking them on the defense, not just increased turn burn.

The reason it said you would take heavy casualties is because that calculation (not AR, the text) takes everything into account. That unit is entrenched so it has something like a 3 or 4x multiplier for it's defense. You're attacking at about 1:1 odds or less, taking that into account, so you probably will take heavy casualties.

Ralph


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RE: how to use the attack planner - 12/17/2010 12:38:41 AM   
walkra

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 2/16/2008
From: Lanus, Argentina
Status: offline 		Excellent post!!!

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Post #: 19
RE: how to use the attack planner - 12/27/2010 3:18:49 PM   
pvthudson01


Posts: 455
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		Good stuff thanks

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RE: how to use the attack planner - 12/27/2010 6:04:51 PM   
Panama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

Since toaw doesn't have simple attack and defense strengths, it also takes into account the percent of the defenders who are armored. If you've got infantry against tanks, you're going to see a pretty small value for the AR.



History has shown that tanks are notoriously poor at holding ground against grunts without said tanks having some kind of infantry support. Do defenders that are purely armored receive a benefit against infantry? Seems it should be the other way around.

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RE: how to use the attack planner - 12/28/2010 3:02:10 AM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 10657
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From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

Since toaw doesn't have simple attack and defense strengths, it also takes into account the percent of the defenders who are armored. If you've got infantry against tanks, you're going to see a pretty small value for the AR.



History has shown that tanks are notoriously poor at holding ground against grunts without said tanks having some kind of infantry support. Do defenders that are purely armored receive a benefit against infantry? Seems it should be the other way around.


Ralph should have said "attackers with low AT values against pure armored defenders".

If all the defender's equipment is armored, only the attacker's AT values will be included in the AR. If all the defender's equipment is unarmored, only the attacker's AP values will be included in the AR. If half the defense strength is from armored equipment and half from unarmored, then half the attacker's AP and half the attacker's AT will be included in the AR.

So, if the defenders are all tanks, only the AT values of the attackers will be considered. For some infantry, that will be quite low. But that will be the case in combat resolution as well.

Of course, some infantry have large AT values - available when the designer considers that to be appropriate.

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RE: how to use the attack planner - 1/7/2011 4:29:44 PM   
marjur


Posts: 101
Joined: 10/29/2008
Status: offline 		What does it mean that a support unit is crossed out? I don't remember seeing it when I still played ACOW.






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< Message edited by marjur -- 1/7/2011 4:30:22 PM >

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RE: how to use the attack planner - 1/7/2011 4:36:19 PM   
BigDuke66


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Status: offline 		Well it can but it won't assist because it's neither directly used in the attack nor set on tactical reserve so it could support the attack.

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 1/7/2011 4:39:23 PM >

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RE: how to use the attack planner - 1/7/2011 4:42:55 PM   
marjur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Well it can but it won't assist because it's neither directly used in the attack nor set on tactical reserve so it could support the attack.


Why isn't the defending Arty unit on the right crossed out? It's not on tactical reserve either.

What do you mean "directly" used"? Do you mean close combat like non-arty units do?


< Message edited by marjur -- 1/7/2011 4:43:17 PM >

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RE: how to use the attack planner - 1/7/2011 4:55:21 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 10657
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From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marjur

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Well it can but it won't assist because it's neither directly used in the attack nor set on tactical reserve so it could support the attack.


Why isn't the defending Arty unit on the right crossed out? It's not on tactical reserve either.


Supporting deployments are: Tactical Reserve, Local Reserve, Defending, Entrenched, and Fortified. The "X"ed out units are in Mobile deployment - that doesn't support (it's like the "Rest" deployment for bombers).

quote:

What do you mean "directly" used"? Do you mean close combat like non-arty units do?


Directly assigned to the attack - with the gold arrowhead in one of its corners.

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RE: how to use the attack planner - 1/7/2011 4:57:41 PM   
BigDuke66


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Status: offline 		The unit on the right is defending and in this mode it supports attack and defense.
And with directly I mean you can click an them to directly assign them to the attack, it will use more "power" as a unit on tactical reserve uses only a part of its actual strength for these things, not sure of a defending unit also uses only a part of its strength.

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RE: how to use the attack planner - 1/7/2011 6:09:45 PM   
marjur


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quote:

The unit on the right is defending and in this mode it supports attack and defense.


So a defending arty unit will support some non-arty unit which is defending or attacking, right? Does the defending arty unit support with full strength or only half, or some other amount?



< Message edited by marjur -- 1/7/2011 6:35:08 PM >

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RE: how to use the attack planner - 1/7/2011 7:15:14 PM   
BigDuke66


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marjur

quote:

The unit on the right is defending and in this mode it supports attack and defense.


So a defending arty unit will support some non-arty unit which is defending or attacking, right?


Right, check the manual to see how much they use, I think it's half of their strength.

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