Matrix Games Forums

Deal of the Week Da Vinci's Art of WarCivil War II Patch 1.4 public BetaHappy Easter!Battle Academy is now available on SteamPlayers compare Ageods Civil War to Civil War IIDeal of the week - An updated War in the East goes half Price!Sign up for the Qvadriga beta for iPad and Android!Come and say hi at Pax and SaluteLegends of War goes on sale!Piercing Fortress Europa Gets Updated
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR Page: <<   < prev  21 22 [23] 24 25   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/14/2010 5:43:14 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
The AI is making too many brigades right now.  We'll look into it.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to Smirfy)
Post #: 661
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/14/2010 9:10:43 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7166
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline
There's also another problem: a Rifle Division seems to have an attack strength of 1. A brigade also has an attack strength of 1. As a Soviet brigade is about the size of a reinforced battalion by Western standards, producing a mass of brigades is both more efficient in terms of manpower and more efficient in terms of attack strength than producing Rifle Divisions early in the war.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 662
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/14/2010 9:27:41 PM   
Pford

 

Posts: 235
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline
Playing with that great glob of Soviet units seems disconcerting, not to mention tedious. When does the game activate corps consolidation for the Russians?

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 663
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/14/2010 9:40:11 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7166
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I think the AI is trying for defense in depth which is a good idea to keep the Axis from punching through a thin line and being free to make pockets.


The Soviet units are not good enough for a defense in depth with single units. A stack with a defensive strength of, say, 40 is more difficult to attack than 4 stacks with a defensive strength of 10. Even if such a "layered" defense would slow your forces down enough to prevent encirclement, Soviet casualties would be high in any case.

(in reply to Pford)
Post #: 664
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/14/2010 9:49:08 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford

... When does the game activate corps consolidation for the Russians?


Dec 41 - Cavalry Corps (built from 3 Cav Divs)
April 42 - Tank Corps (3 Tank Brigades)
June 42 - Rifle Corps (3 Inf Brigades/Divs)
Sept 42 - Mech Corps (3 Mech/Mot Brigades)



_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to Pford)
Post #: 665
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 12:05:21 AM   
kmussler

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Rensselaer, Indiana, USA
Status: offline
Capitaine, I'm not so sure. I have the SPI War in the East and remember having three-deep stacks of Soviet Rifle divisions in a front all the way from Leningrad to Odessa. That's quite a few rifle divisions. They didn't have any punch but they filled the spaces.

Kurt

p.s. I'm really enjoying the AAR, Elmo.

< Message edited by kmussler -- 3/15/2010 12:09:00 AM >

(in reply to Capitaine)
Post #: 666
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 12:33:18 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 20495
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
A 1 strength RB is not likely the same as a 1 strength RD. 1 is just the minimum listed for a combat unit. So you could have a unit that is really a .1 and another that is a 1.3, so they could be quite different. You lose granularity in the weaker units. The only way to improve this was to increase the values and that led to too many big valued units and too many stacks that go over 99 strength (thus getting an X since we can't display 3 digits). It's a balancing act.

It would appear that the AI is building an unhistorical number of brigades, something the player would have a harder time doing given harsher admin point limits. Keep in mind the current size of the Soviet army is about 25% bigger than it was historically at this time, so that is having an impact as well.

(in reply to kmussler)
Post #: 667
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 1:28:51 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
I have fast forwarded a couple of turns in my AAR as nothing of note happened.  It is now 12/4/41 (turn 25) and all four weather zones are experiencing Blizzard conditions.  Ice level in zone 4 is 4 and it's 5 or above in the other three zones so most rivers are frozen solid and lose their defensive benefit (bad news for me).  There are several First Winter rules in effect for each Blizzard turn from Dec 41 through March 42.  Non-Finnish Axis units have their combat values divided by three are more likely to retreat in combat and less likely to cause Soviet units to retreat.  Soviets (and Finns) have their combat values doubled to reflect first winter surprise and their better preparedness.  First Winter rules can be mitigated somewhat in tows, cities, and urban areas so I moved a number of units off the front line and into reserve in populated areas.  Supply is adversely affected in certain areas of the map during these blizzard turns.  There is additional attrition for non-Finnish Axis units.  I "think" mountain units get a break from some of these special rules but I'm not seeing that in the manual right now.

I'll run the AI part of the turn (since we certainly aren't doing anything this turn) and post the bad news in a while.


< Message edited by elmo3 -- 3/15/2010 1:34:02 AM >


_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 668
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 2:49:58 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
12/4/41 (turn 25)  Blizzard and thick Ice in all four zones this turn.  I can just hear Bing Crosby now:

Oh the weather outside is frightful, 
But the fire is so delightful,
And since we've no place to go,
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!


The northern part of AGN's line held pretty well but as someone suggested the Soviets are trying to punch through near Pskov.  My non-Elite SS unit in Pskov was in reserve mode but did not help on one single defense in that area.  Cowards.  Guess that's why they are non-Elite.    They are probably going to see some action this turn whether they like it or not. The lower part of the AGN front fared even worse with many holes punched in the line.  We'll need to pull back in this area as you can see in the second screen shot.







< Message edited by elmo3 -- 3/15/2010 2:51:43 AM >


_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 669
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 2:57:45 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
12/4/41 (turn 25)  AGC took a beating along the northern and eastern ends of the bulge.  But the bulge flanks held, barely.  We'll have to think hard about what to do here.  Counterattacking is out of the question so it's just a matter of deciding how far to pull back and who might get left behind if we do.  Some reserves participated here but again it was not as many as I had hoped.  Not sure what the problem is with them refusing to come out and fight.  The lower portion of the AGC front held pretty well as you can see in the second shot.








< Message edited by elmo3 -- 3/15/2010 2:58:07 AM >


_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 670
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 3:03:34 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
12/4/41 (turn 25) Reserves in Kiev also failed to answer the call and the Soviets broke through southeast of Kiev as a result.  Other fighting along the was minor and the Rumanians actually did better than expected.






_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 671
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 3:08:27 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
OOB and Losses through turn 25:








_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 672
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 3:12:15 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
So we lost about 75,000 men and the Soviets lost about 200,000 men since the last loss report.  Some of those were on the couple of turns I skipped over but most were this turn.  If that were it for blizzards and bad weather effects I'd say we did well but this is just the beginning of what could be two or three months of brutal weather. And turn 26 is blizzard in all four weather regions...

_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 673
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 4:47:29 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8513
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
I was looking at those armoredspearheads.. they for sure are threatened, unless Hitler orders you to stand and testthe enemy ai, I would move west! obviously right?> I am intersted to see where you try to take a stand..
Can forces create fortifications? in this game...

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 674
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 10:18:24 AM   
Iron Duke


Posts: 520
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: UK
Status: offline
Hi
Great aar
question regarding units in reserve

What is the max distance a unit can be from the front line before it cannot respond ?

cheers

_____________________________

"Bombers outpacing fighters - you've got to bloody well laugh!" Australian Buffalo pilot - Singapore

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 675
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 11:39:16 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

I was looking at those armoredspearheads.. they for sure are threatened, unless Hitler orders you to stand and testthe enemy ai, I would move west! obviously right?> I am intersted to see where you try to take a stand..
Can forces create fortifications? in this game...


Yes they can ding-in and create fortifications up to a level of 5 depending on the situation. Either side can also create fortified zones or regions that are static units although their usefulness is questionable as I'm seeing in my AAR.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 676
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 11:44:58 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Duke

Hi
Great aar
question regarding units in reserve

What is the max distance a unit can be from the front line before it cannot respond ?

cheers


Reserves can commit if within 6 hexes on defense and 3 hexes for an attack. There are a number of other factors that influence whether they will commit including battle odds, leader checks, MP's available, number of units already committed, and organization to name a few.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to Iron Duke)
Post #: 677
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 12:22:39 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3043
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
I wouldn’t be surprised if your reserves are failing to react because their reaction range is halved or reduced even less in Blizzards. They probably need to pass a special die roll just to get a chance at reacting, and then it is probably a very small chance if they do get to make the reaction die roll.

Jim


_____________________________



(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 678
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 12:40:22 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7166
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline
Elmo: what's the minor Axis production like currently? I see several countries are not replenishing equipment. The Slovak tanks seem to be gone forever, even though they formed their Fast Division turns ago.

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 679
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 1:02:51 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Elmo: what's the minor Axis production like currently? I see several countries are not replenishing equipment. The Slovak tanks seem to be gone forever, even though they formed their Fast Division turns ago.


That Slovak armor symbol is a database bug. It's really an HQ which is why it stays at 0. I'm not up on production and how it works yet so maybe Pavel or Jim will jump in on Axis minor production. I know a certain percentage of disabled manpower is returned to each ally and Germany will send armaments points to allies who are low if Germany has enough, but that's about all I know.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 680
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 2:34:28 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7166
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline
OK, maybe the Fast Division didn't have armour in 1941.

Is there a fixed extra MP cost for mud/blizzard conditions, or does it depend on terrain?

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 681
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 4:22:32 PM   
hart2412


Posts: 138
Joined: 3/30/2006
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

OK, maybe the Fast Division didn't have armour in 1941.

Is there a fixed extra MP cost for mud/blizzard conditions, or does it depend on terrain?


The Slovak Fast Division had the following armoured unit in August 1941:

12th Panzer Battalion

2 x Armored Company

Anti-Tank Company (motorised)




(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 682
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 5:11:06 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
Well we're not talking about the same unit then.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to hart2412)
Post #: 683
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 5:19:39 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7166
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

The Slovak Fast Division had the following armoured unit in August 1941:

12th Panzer Battalion

2 x Armored Company

Anti-Tank Company (motorised)


I was confused for a moment, the Slovak 1st Motorized Infantry/Fast Division indeed had tanks on paper in 1941. I seem to recall the unit using Panzer 38 (t)'s. I don't know what their tank strength was after being reformed and becoming operational again in August-September 1941. It does seem weird that the Slovaks start with tanks (an error according to Elmo), but end up with none, especially as both the Brigade Pilfousek already had tanks (the 1st Slovak Tank Battalion had two tank companies) and the Fast Division seems to have had tanks in 1941.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 684
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 5:19:46 PM   
tacfire


Posts: 76
Joined: 12/9/2007
Status: offline
Let me chime in here - great AAR Elmo! Just by looking at the length of this thread your AAR is generating a lot of interest in the game. As a big fan of TOAW and WitP and WitP-AE, I know I will be buying this one when it comes out.

One question: what do all the red dashed lines on the map mean? I see there is one for RR track changes from Baltic to Soviet side, but it looks like there are other ones too that are hard to read.
I also hope the developers tone down the color of those red dashed lines before the games release. The map is so beautiful and they overpower the map as they are now in my opinion.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 685
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 5:50:13 PM   
Brad Hunter


Posts: 1308
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

The Slovak Fast Division had the following armoured unit in August 1941:

12th Panzer Battalion

2 x Armored Company

Anti-Tank Company (motorised)


I was confused for a moment, the Slovak 1st Motorized Infantry/Fast Division indeed had tanks on paper in 1941. I seem to recall the unit using Panzer 38 (t)'s. I don't know what their tank strength was after being reformed and becoming operational again in August-September 1941. It does seem weird that the Slovaks start with tanks (an error according to Elmo), but end up with none, especially as both the Brigade Pilfousek already had tanks (the 1st Slovak Tank Battalion had two tank companies) and the Fast Division seems to have had tanks in 1941.


The "Pilfousek Brigade" had 30 x LT vz.35 [Pz.35(t)], 10 x LT-38 [Pz.38(t)], and 7 x LT-40 [Pz.38(t) Export Version].

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 686
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 6:21:37 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 5838
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline
The red lines...There are 4 lines that are for reference. One is the Baltic States rail zone that had Europe Rail gadge. Then the Finnish extent line (unitil Leningrad falls), and another its as far as they can move later. The last is the other minor allies line (unit can't go north of it)...We havn't done the final map changes yet and I believe theres a color change coming for those lines...

_____________________________

Jon Pyle
AWD Beta tester
WBTS Alpha tester
WitE Alpha tester
WitW Alpha Tester

(in reply to Brad Hunter)
Post #: 687
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 7:49:30 PM   
hart2412


Posts: 138
Joined: 3/30/2006
From: England
Status: offline
When the Pilfousek Brigade was re-organised into the 1st Mobile/Fast division in August 1941 the panzer battalion was equipped with sixty nine LT vz 38s (Pz 38t).

(in reply to PyleDriver)
Post #: 688
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 9:04:08 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tacfire

....

One question: what do all the red dashed lines on the map mean? ....


Glad you like the AAR. Those lines are to show limits on where Axis allies can move/attack.


_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to tacfire)
Post #: 689
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/15/2010 9:07:01 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4867
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
I'll post the results for turn 26 later tonight.  In a word...grim.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 690
Page:   <<   < prev  21 22 [23] 24 25   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR Page: <<   < prev  21 22 [23] 24 25   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.123