Matrix Games Forums

Command gets huge update!Order of Battle: Pacific Featured on Weekly Streaming SessionA new fight for Battle Academy!Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager is out for Mac!The definitive wargame of the Western Front is out now! War in the West gets teaser trailer and Twitch Stream!New Preview AAR for War in the West!War in the West Manual previewThe fight for Armageddon begins! The Matrix Holiday sales are starting today!
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Scenario Design and Modding >> RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 1/15/2010 10:09:41 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 9464
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
When the 'resize to fit' option is enabled, the groups try to resize to fit the space on the CVx as per the old rules of version 1806 of stock.
These rules are based on Allied/Japanese, type of CVx, number of groups onboard, etc.

Only carrier capable F. FB, NF, DB and TB groups can resize according to the first applicable condition below.

a) if only one group on the CVx, then new size is 9/10 of CV capacity.
b) if Japanese and ship type is CV or CVB and date is less than 7 months since Dec 1941, new size is 1/3 of CV capacity.
c) if Japanese and ship type is CV or CVB, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F, new size is 0.375 times CV capacity.
(ii) type is DB, new size is 0.375 times CV capacity.
(iii) type is TB, new size is 0.25 times CV capacity.
(iv) any other type, new size is 0.13 times CV capacity.
d) if Japanese and ship type is CVL, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F, new size is 0.6 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
e) if British, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F, new size is (0.6 times CV capacity) divided by number of fighter groups on board.
(ii) if more than one fighter group present and any other type, new size is (0.4 times CV capacity) divided by number of non-fighter groups on board.
f) if Allied and ship type is CV or CVB and capacity >99, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is TB, new size is 0.132 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.28 times CV capacity.
g) if Allied and ship type is CV or CVB and year<44, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F and date is less than 7 months since Dec 1941, new size is 0.3 times CV capacity.
(ii) type is F, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
(iii) type is DB and year<43, new size is 0.2 times CV capacity.
(iv) type is DB and year=43 and one DB group present, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
(v) type is TB and year=42, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(vi) any other type, new size is 0.2 times CV capacity.
h) if Allied and ship type is CV or CVB and year>43, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F and date is less than 31 months since Dec 1941, new size is 0.45 times CV capacity.
(ii) type is F and date is less than 37 months since Dec 1941, new size is 0.47 times CV capacity.
(iii) type is F, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
(iv) type is DB and date is more than 36 months since Dec 1941 and more than 3 groups present, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(v) type is DB and date is more than 36 months since Dec 1941 and more than 3 groups present, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(vi) type is DB and date is more than 30 months since Dec 1941 and less than 4 groups present and one DB group present, new size is 0.36 times CV capacity.
(vii) type is DB and date is less than 31 months since Dec 1941 and less than 4 groups present and one DB group present, new size is 0.38 times CV capacity.
(viii) type is TB and year=45 and more than 3 groups present, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(ix) any other type, new size is 0.2 times CV capacity.
i) if Allied and ship type is CVE and date is greater than 28 months since Dec 1941, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F , new size is 0.71 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.3 times CV capacity.
j) if Allied and ship type is CVE or CVL , new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F , new size is 0.7 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.3 times CV capacity.
k) anything else, new size is CV capacity / number of groups

Note that if too many groups are assigned to CVx or some groups are not set to resize, there can be some strange group sizes that could disable Air Ops.
[Hopefully I haven't got any of the number wrong while transposing it from my PC.]


_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 31
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 1/15/2010 10:26:33 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 6058
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/now in Israel
Status: online
Thanks!

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to michaelm)
Post #: 32
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 1/15/2010 10:32:38 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 9464
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
If modders want to have groups resize, I would suggest using the group resize options.

Relying on the complexed formula may not give the expected results.
Although, you would lose any ability to mix and match groups.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 33
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 1/16/2010 5:44:02 AM   
WLockard


Posts: 183
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline
ooops, forgot to read michaelms post

< Message edited by WLockard -- 1/16/2010 5:45:55 AM >

(in reply to vlcz)
Post #: 34
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 1/27/2010 10:01:54 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1582
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Put a carrier in an Air TF. Put the air unit on a carrier. Make sure it's set to resize. Disband the carrier. Voila! The air unit resized.


I tried this with the Japanese baby CVL's and CVE's (the ones that start in the HI on Dec 7) and nothing happened. Do you have to wait until the next turn starts to have the resize take effect?

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 35
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 1/27/2010 10:51:06 PM   
Texas_D


Posts: 115
Joined: 10/21/2006
From: Republic of Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Put a carrier in an Air TF. Put the air unit on a carrier. Make sure it's set to resize. Disband the carrier. Voila! The air unit resized.


I tried this with the Japanese baby CVL's and CVE's (the ones that start in the HI on Dec 7) and nothing happened. Do you have to wait until the next turn starts to have the resize take effect?


Yes you have to wait for the next turn.

(in reply to Icedawg)
Post #: 36
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 1/28/2010 12:26:40 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 7307
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
Looking up Scen 1 there are few non-CV based Japanese Chutai/Daitai that can be resized.

Yamada Det S-2 Claudes x9 @ Soc Tran (withdraw on 7 Apr 42)
Kawai Det Claudes x9 @ Peleliu (withdraw on 10 Feb 42)
Yamada Det S-1 Zero x18 @ Soc Tran (withdraw on 7 Apr 42)
Bako NGD Det T-1 @ Pescadores (needs 8 PP to change commands)

(in reply to vlcz)
Post #: 37
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 2/19/2010 5:38:59 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5438
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: online
quote:

ote that if too many groups are assigned to CVx or some groups are not set to resize, there can be some strange group sizes that could disable Air Ops.

So when resizing KB's groups, we should resize all groups on a given CV, or none at all?

_____________________________


(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 38
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 2/19/2010 6:25:53 PM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

A small addition. Most people think the Pete is useless. Almost, but not quite. You can use them as ASW range 0. They will work in the hex the TF is in. Better than nothing.....



I certainly don't regard the Type 0 Observation Seaplane as useless:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Rossel Island at 103,139
Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
F1M2 Pete x 6

Allied aircraft
Beaufort V x 5
B-17E Fortress x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 2 damaged


Japanese Ships
CA Takao
DD Asagumo

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x Beaufort V bombing from 8000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 8000 feet *
Naval Attack: 4 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Takao-2 Chutai with F1M2 Pete (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000
Raid is overhead
Atago-2 Chutai with F1M2 Pete (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000
Raid is overhead
Maya-2 Chutai with F1M2 Pete (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000
Raid is overhead


I let out a slightly ironic cheer when one of these little floatplanes managed to bring down that Beaufort! Successive firing passes finally took effect, and hopefully put the other bombers off their aim. Being able to use these aircraft for CAP is a small but valuable improvement on WitP classic,

_____________________________




(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 39
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 2/19/2010 6:32:13 PM   
Mark Weston

 

Posts: 188
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline
That's awesome.  Never in a million years would I have thought of putting float planes up on CAP.

(in reply to Local Yokel)
Post #: 40
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 2/19/2010 6:39:58 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 2976
Joined: 2/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

That's awesome.  Never in a million years would I have thought of putting float planes up on CAP.


Thats what Rufe's are for. Put them on your CS and poof you have 20+ fighters for local CAP. They are not great, but for a while they can hold their own.. Especially against unescorted bombers.

Xargun

(in reply to Mark Weston)
Post #: 41
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 2/19/2010 6:41:11 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2274
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline
I have used resize to "shrink" sqds to fit. I have taken a US F4F sqd with 18 planes, put it on a CVE set resize and it shrunk it to fit.

Remember if it has a date to resize assigned to the sqd it will not manually resize. At least I have not been able to get them to do that.

_____________________________


(in reply to vlcz)
Post #: 42
RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? - 2/19/2010 7:36:02 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5438
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: online
Hmm, OK. But has anyone resized KB's groups yet? Is the safest way to set all 3 groups on a fleet carrier to resize at the same time? I think that's what Michaelm's earlier post in this thread suggests, but I want to be sure before I mess with my precious CV airgroups.

_____________________________


(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 43
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Scenario Design and Modding >> RE: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.078