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RE: WaW ver. R

 
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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/12/2010 1:57:28 AM   
springer

 

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Cveta,

I can't see the game, but I'd be willing to guess that the bombers aren't to blame.  It's artillery:  As you know, some well place massed artillery not only reduces readiness, but turns your very expensive fortifications into very expensive works of 3-D abstract expressionism.  (Essentially, the fortifications go "poof" when they receive sufficient damage.)  It's an unpleasant experience, but I think it is reasonable historically.  In the '44 campaigns, the Soviets learned that massed artillery was a great way to break open a "no retreat, hold the fortified zone" defense and start a deep battle.

Hang in there, you're up against some tough opponents...

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/12/2010 1:28:48 PM   
cveta


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I know well that artilery destroyed fortifications, Kondor tought me that well in anather game. But this river crossing was too easy and we all know thet rubissh and remains of concrete fortificatios sometimes get better defence values than original defence lines ( Monte Casino for example, Stalingrad is anather example ). I am not angry about Tom crossing the rhine but about all mistakes I make and abaout thing that he crossed this so easy and without few casulties.
I only hope that I will havea chance to play again with thouse peoples since I lear a lot from this game and I will be better oponent nex time.
Turn will be sended later today when work is done. And I wont play western blic card. No point in this. And I belive Tom will beat me anyway even if I wipe all his units in France. Maybe in next game he will have a trouble in defending London? LOL

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/12/2010 9:24:39 PM   
RufusTFirefly

 

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At least it has been the artillery that smashed the fortifications at Mannerheim line. My air force was not successful in that.

You are right that ruins can be a better defence area than a fortification. But AT does not take ruins in account.

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/13/2010 7:09:48 AM   
cveta


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No artilery attacks was executed on the hex I am talking about. Will check it later. Turn done and send. Limited counterattack executed in France. Retaken some land but without much hope.
In Rusia Kiev recptured, and some hawy Su units destroyed in KGN sector. Antipartisan activity as usual.
Good luck

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Post #: 154
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/13/2010 7:43:50 AM   
cveta


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Here is the battle I was talking about - LOL I dont know how to put screenshot
Here is explanation

Hex - Siegfrid line 46,19
Attacker - attacked from 2 sides

Att. force
Arm. car 1        loss 1
Med. Tank 2
Light Tank 1
Rifle II 25         loss 2
mortar 1
Rifle I 4
Partisans 2

Defender - high entrenchmaent, exp over 50, reddines betwen 60-90

Flak 88 1 loss 1
Rifle II 15 loss 12
Mg II 6 loss 4

I know that he is stronger and that he will winn in this battle. But so few loses??? MG will kill a lot of infantry croosing the river. And tanks are not anfibian vechiles in WW2 so they may not croos rivers. 1 mortar in  attack? He wont help much.
But this is a game. And lets keep on playing.



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Post #: 155
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/13/2010 1:45:54 PM   
tweber

 

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I re-openned the turn twice. The unit in question is highlighted. As far as I can tell, the entrenchment is only 87 and the readiness is about 50%. The numbers of the units along the front are generally low and I think there is probably a supply issue. I do not recall the exact sequence, but ran the battle twice:

- First time was a straight assault by the 2 tank units across the river with no artillery prep. I was repulsed
- Second time, I prepped the attack with a single artillery in my HQ. The readiness of the defending unit dropped to 36%. My tank crossed the river so I was attacking by 2 hexsides but they were further apart (bonus of 25% vs 10%). This time, the results were similar to the above.

I think the key is artillery prep. Also, it is better to have fewer defenders but have them in supply. I also do not know your HQ support level but that is also very important.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by tweber -- 3/13/2010 1:48:30 PM >

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Post #: 156
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/13/2010 4:52:10 PM   
RufusTFirefly

 

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German units at eastern front are all low in readyness since several turns. Therefore I was laready thinking that supply is too low. Seems to be the same at western front.

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Post #: 157
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/13/2010 6:37:58 PM   
springer

 

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Thanks Cveta for the numbers; and thanks tweber for the screenshot.

(Before the screenshot, I was going to try and rebuild the battle on the Sixth Army Training Camp, to see what would happen).  I thought I could smell the "whiff of grapeshot" (or the pulverizing power of 155mm shells) in the battle. The supply situation makes sense of the situation too.

I know this isn't quite on topic, but I think AT's artillery rules would handle both Monte Cassino and Stalingrad correctly.  The former would be a mountain hex and the latter would be an urban hex.  Neither of these can be wiped out like field fortifications.

Carry on Cveta!  Your willingness to fight until the guns are pointing at your bunker door is admirable and contributes to a very entertaining thread.

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Post #: 158
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/13/2010 11:33:55 PM   
cveta


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Yes I have a supplay problems. Bridges destroyed, partisan activity high, tousands of allies level bombers flaying over our heads. It will be a miracle if I dont have supplay problem. Same goes for my subs ( by the way I am realy proud of thoiuse, did the best job in game with them ). No supplay problem in Italy for example and becouse all is quiet there.
Tom - you have supplay problems in Africa - I hope so. Kuwait wiped out, Cairo wiped out, my subs near Suez, bridges destroyed. Since I am learning in this game - please confirm this, or did you build a piepline undeground by some miracle way?
Your forces near Tobruk and Benghazi should be low with supplays. Right? You know that I cannot harm them with my poor Italians ( I wonder when will they deserted me ).
Point in this game I belive are inportant for the German player_
1 - never produce Italian units, only supplays or subs.
2 - play Axis pressure card as soon as passible
3 - Never play ws Tom as West
4 - Never broke the German garison rule on Eastern front. Attack Su when you are redy, not the vice versa
5 - prepare fast antipartisan units
6 - no use in building flaks, better to have fighter in defece

HA - now whu dares ti chalenge me after I learn this??? LOL, joking only


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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/13/2010 11:56:00 PM   
tweber

 

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My forces in Africa are poorly supplied at this point but I have been basically ignoring that theater for a while.  Northern France is the decisive theater.  I think the big issue was getting into war with the SU too soon.  That really hurt since it also brought in the US sooner. 

I think my guidelines for the Allies would be:

- Build lots of DDII to start.  You do not want to get in trouble with subs.  DDs can also carry troops so they are great from raids.
- First upgrade should be bomber II.  They have 2x the destructive power of bombers.
- Set up to evacuate France once the main invasion comes.  No excuse for not evacuating at least half the French army.  This will provide forces for raids and to set up a second front when then Soviet's are invaded.
- Raid often and broadly.  Greece, Sicily, Norway, France, etc...  Force the Germans to garrision every port strongly.
- Be ready to evacuate once the Germans respond.  The point is to force the Germans to keep large mobile forces away from Russia.  But, you do not want to sacrifice them needlessly until the US is in the war.
- Bomb broadly.  This will force the Germans to keep lots of fighters away from the Eastern front.

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/14/2010 7:48:30 AM   
cveta


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Tom - why build bombers lev 2 early? What will hapened when German players start to raid towns in England? I didnot do that becouse I have huge problems in Italy at the beguining of the game, but to eliminate England is the one wery imortant thing. You save England by evacuating France forces. I was ready to do a see lion early on, but Italy invasion and your withroval from France mess my plans.
And sorry to all for my poor english spelling and all the tip feller I reguraly done.

< Message edited by cveta -- 3/14/2010 9:50:11 PM >


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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/14/2010 11:51:06 AM   
tweber

 

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It is all about (1) defending the home islands with the fleet that will require lots of DDII, (2) spreading out the German air force across the breadth of the  continent and (3) spreading out the German army along the entire coast.  If you do all these things, the German side is less likely to have a successful Sea Lion and will have a more dilluted attack on the Soviet Union.

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/15/2010 3:07:40 PM   
Barthheart


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Turn 40! sent. Well done guys!

July 1942,

Another Allied supply bridge destroyed from the air in SE Asia.

Allied SE Asia HQ almost destroyed by shore bombardment.

Counter-attack at Wuhan is a complete sucess! Chinese troops flee into the mountains.

More partisans killed.

More subs sank.

Overall a good month for Imperial Japan.....



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Post #: 163
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/15/2010 8:18:49 PM   
tweber

 

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Turn sent.  In the East, continued advance into Germany.  Bridged Rhine and now about half way to Elbe.

In East, building up bombers and moving ships to confront Japanese.

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/17/2010 7:54:53 PM   
RufusTFirefly

 

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Turn 40 sent.

Heavy battles west of Pskov. German divisions forced to retreat, but Russian HQ is careful. No advance made. Units of northern army encircled Helsinky from east and north. Guns in position to shell the defenders. In the south armoured units moved closer to Odessa. German HQ South nearly eliminated.

In China counterattacks near Wuhan failed. Severe losses on Chinese side.

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/19/2010 12:46:00 AM   
cveta


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Turn don and send.
Few counterattack executed in west theathre with sucess. Then a withrowal was ordered. Some fortifications builded. Italian landed near Cairo. Malta full of west forces again. They will starve there I hope. Subs in Mediteranean see and in Atlantic still killing lots of supplays and PP. Last turn while defending they sink 6 DDII and lost 1 vessel only. Seems to me that west generals dont have a solution for subs. Maybe they will have a better sucess if they attack with battleships. Lol lucky me.  In East - some hewy bombing runs done inflicting hewy loses. Then general withrowal was executed to better defending positions. Helsinki - seems that Finland will go down.

Fuhrer still hope that he may push invaders back to the see. We develop some new wepons. A MG that may fire around the corner. And a sort of rifle that may penetrate the tank armor - named pancershrek. He hope that this wepons will change a course of war. Young soldiers armed with new MG and pancershrek are been trained like tank hunters teams. At the moment all they hunt are skirts since we need ammo for new wepons, but with thime this will improve so they will start to do some real hunt.

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/19/2010 4:21:43 PM   
cveta


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TOP SECRET

To Stavka from generals of German armies east

Comarade - we would like to inform you that we are redy to nagotiate peace with mighty red army. Nationalsocialisam is Germany is a mistake and will cause lots of demage to German people. We are redy to put down our arms and join you in a struggle agains nationalsocialism all arount the world. We would like to sugest that western democracy is a threat to comunism and that we may join you in a fight against west. As a token of our good will we will withrow all SS units from the East and deplay them to the West theathre. Then, if you hold your attacks, we will join you and we may take Berlin before winter. We ask for restoring of prewar borders and we may nagotiate how will we split Europe once we push Tommies and Jerryes back. SS will also be treted as an enemy. West pressure is high and we hope that we may hold them enough for you to discuss our offer. Once the allies take Berlin they will march toward Moscov, you know that. So let us stop them now before is too late.

Generals of KGN, KGS, KGC

PS - let this stay as a secret becouse if Fuhrer ever find out about this we will be executed, our houses burned and fammilies will be hanged.

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/19/2010 4:29:31 PM   
cveta


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Dear Fuhrer.
I am happy to inform you that all traitors of Natinalsocalism are captured. They will be beheded in Sunday. Their heads will be sended to Stavka. Their stupid orders of withroval on eastern fronts are executed, but SS generals will take over and we will push Soviets back to Ural. So redeployment of our soldiers in the East is not a runaway but a strategic advance. Same goes to the west. Please dont be upset for the bad situation on all fronts at the moment. SS will put everithing back in order soon.


Reichsführer
H. Himmler

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/19/2010 4:37:06 PM   
cveta


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German soldiers. Here is a version of new wonderwepon wich will change the course of war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9elpbW4c18

Onvard to victory.
Fuhrer.

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/19/2010 5:21:39 PM   
Barthheart


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Turn to West.

Another quiet month..... Chinese seemed to be stalled as they run out of troops...

More partisan killed.

More Allied subs sunk.

Slowly building up forces for pushing back.

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/19/2010 5:51:11 PM   
tweber

 

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Turn sent.

In Germany, approaching Elbe.  Artillery strikes on Hamburg.  Hope to cross the river next 2 turns.  Will threaten Munich and Prague.

Put a few troops in place to contain Italian invasion. 

In Pacific, carrier air sunk most of Japanese surface fleet.  14 BB and 10 CGs sunk.  Setting up for invasion of main islands.

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/19/2010 10:11:06 PM   
Barthheart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweber
...
In Pacific, carrier air sunk most of Japanese surface fleet.  14 BB and 10 CGs sunk.  Setting up for invasion of main islands.


DOH!

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Post #: 172
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/22/2010 4:08:16 PM   
cveta


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Seems to me that this will be a short WW2

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/24/2010 1:32:05 PM   
RufusTFirefly

 

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Turn done and sent.

Helsinky, Riga and Odessa taken. A close line from Riga to Slmolesk is established. Russian forces prepare for advance westwards.

South group of Red Army is moving deep into Ukraina.

In China Wuhan was taken again.

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Post #: 174
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/24/2010 9:27:25 PM   
cveta


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Turn done and send


Allied forces come close to Berlin. We tranysfer some of our elite ss units to west theathre. Now let us see how well will west fight against veterans from the east.
British fleet in Atlantic wiped out, anather sub victory. Manchester bombed. Artilery unit in Norway and north Frnce wiped out. Finaly some sucsesfull counterattacks.

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RE: WaW ver. R - 3/25/2010 3:57:58 PM   
Barthheart


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Turn to West

September 1942 and winter's just around the corner. Hope we get to see the cherry blossems next spring.....

With the Allied capture of Canton, the last southern China production center and thus denying the Chinese any victory, the IJA starts moving north to protect it's holdings.

Tens of thousands of Chinese peasents rise up (like 8 partisan units this turn!). All are quickly slaughtered like the cattle they are.

At sea, in a humiliating air battle over a US fleet where we outnumbered the enemy aricraft, we lost twice as many aircraft and only killed 1 DD..... the Fleet Commander of the IJN has been beheaded for this desgrace.



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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body,
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Post #: 176
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/25/2010 5:14:25 PM   
tweber

 

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Turn done and sent.  Advance to Elbe and through across a bridgehead.  Close to Berlin.

In Pacific, big carrier battle and BB battle.  I was able to sink 11 carriers and most of the rest of the IJN naval air arm.

Lost alot of bombers so it was not exactly a turkey shoot

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Post #: 177
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/27/2010 9:09:10 AM   
cveta


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I will be on my vaccation for next 7 days. I will tray to play my turn there but I am notr certan will I have a internet connections there. I would like to play this game till the end, and I hope you all will do the same. Lets play this one till the end and then if you wont we may play anather.

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Post #: 178
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/29/2010 3:03:47 PM   
Barthheart


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Turn to West.

IJN runs from terrible beatings in Sea of Japan.

Counter attacks against Chinese troops.

New weapons coming on line.....


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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"

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Post #: 179
RE: WaW ver. R - 3/29/2010 10:40:24 PM   
tweber

 

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Turn done and sent.  German's set up a solid line on the Elbe.  Looks pretty tough.  Did some bombing of Japan.


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