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Ground Combat - 1/4/2010 12:20:48 AM   
mgp104

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
Hi,

Some of you will know that I have been asking loads of questions about this, I just want to know what is going on........

To set the scene I am playing a '43 Campaign as the Allies, I have now got to the end of Jan. '44. I have been trying hard to damage the ground units in the Gustav Line and have reached a point where I'm making very little progress using all my forces in Italy to bomb the troops. I have fairly badly damaged the supply lines and have also got Rubber industry to below critical level. I have a few questions about various aspects of the game:

1 - The target data screen shows that Armament industry output is 0 even though it is not very badly damaged (~10%). I assume this is because I have crippled the Rubber industry, although I haven't destriyed it so I would assume that armaments would be reduced not zero. Does armament output at zero mean that German armament production is zero, ie. no ground units and flak guns are being produced?

2 - I tried looking at the '44 campaign to compare it to my game and at the beginning of the '44 campaign 12th and Med are not being given Avalanche target restrictions, but in my campaign they still are; is this a bug and will 12th and Med ever be released from Avalanche restrictions?

3 - Has anyone found any really good ways of attacking troops? Especially causing disruption, I use my heavy/medium bombers at >20000ft to keep flak damage light so that there are lots of aircraft available each day. Also should fighter-bombers be used to 'level' bomb (ie. fly at <5000ft) or to dive-bomb (>5000ft)?

4 - I read somewhere that the Gustav line collapsed at the beginning of June '44, will this happen in the game and is the date that it occurs affected by the amount of effort put into attacking troops and supply lines? I know that breaking through a defensive line is almost impossible but does causing troops damage and forcing them to withdraw from the line through ground attacks 'bring forward' the date for the withdrawal? Basically I am asking is it worth me expending time, aircraft and pilots attacking troops?

5 - On the campaign summary screen there are two numbers for German aircraft, the manual says that these are aircraft ready and in brackets aircraft damaged/in maintenance. I assume that this number does not account for aircraft in replacement pools that haven't been assigned to a squadron? Also there is a lowest value number to the right, does this number take into account factors such as available fuel, airfields and pilots. I ask because according to the manual Air Superiority is calculated as serviceable Allied aircraft divided by serviceable Axis aircraft, in my campaign the AS score is two even though I have about 8000 aircraft serviceable and the enemy around 2500.

Thanks,

Mark

Post #: 1
RE: Ground Combat - 1/4/2010 11:18:29 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6226
Joined: 1/26/2005
From: Planning the end of the world, well out to 2023!
Status: offline
Hi,

Some of you will know that I have been asking loads of questions about this, I just want to know what is going on........
Dont forget you are playing an air game, and that ground combat will be very abstract.

To set the scene I am playing a '43 Campaign as the Allies, I have now got to the end of Jan. '44. I have been trying hard to damage the ground units in the Gustav Line and have reached a point where I'm making very little progress using all my forces in Italy to bomb the troops. I have fairly badly damaged the supply lines and have also got Rubber industry to below critical level. I have a few questions about various aspects of the game:

1 - The target data screen shows that Armament industry output is 0 even though it is not very badly damaged (~10%). I assume this is because I have crippled the Rubber industry, although I haven't destriyed it so I would assume that armaments would be reduced not zero. Does armament output at zero mean that German armament production is zero, ie. no ground units and flak guns are being produced?
Dont forget you may not get 100% accurate reports, but if Arms industry is at 0, your guess should be correct. But if you are not damaging Ground Units at the same time their is no demand, also is there a pool to be used first.

2 - I tried looking at the '44 campaign to compare it to my game and at the beginning of the '44 campaign 12th and Med are not being given Avalanche target restrictions, but in my campaign they still are; is this a bug and will 12th and Med ever be released from Avalanche restrictions?
I have the same restriction in Nov 43, after the Avalanche period. Maybe you need to score a number of points to clear it??

3 - Has anyone found any really good ways of attacking troops? Especially causing disruption, I use my heavy/medium bombers at >20000ft to keep flak damage light so that there are lots of aircraft available each day. Also should fighter-bombers be used to 'level' bomb (ie. fly at <5000ft) or to dive-bomb (>5000ft)?
I use Fighter Bombers (P40, Kittyhawk, Typhoons) and Light Bombers (Boston, A20, B26, Baltimore, Mosquito FBVI) at various low-medium (5-15000ft) heights, seems to work OK but only short term (I suppose they use Arm pts to rebuild?)
4 - I read somewhere that the Gustav line collapsed at the beginning of June '44, will this happen in the game and is the date that it occurs affected by the amount of effort put into attacking troops and supply lines? I know that breaking through a defensive line is almost impossible but does causing troops damage and forcing them to withdraw from the line through ground attacks 'bring forward' the date for the withdrawal? Basically I am asking is it worth me expending time, aircraft and pilots attacking troops?
The Gustav line collapsed in the Diadem offensive in late May44/early June 44 (Rome fell 5 June 44), I believe you shold keep up a steady assault on the Ground units, this historically the use for much of the areas FB's, keep at it, this game is 700+ turns log and no single days battle will win it.

5 - On the campaign summary screen there are two numbers for German aircraft, the manual says that these are aircraft ready and in brackets aircraft damaged/in maintenance. I assume that this number does not account for aircraft in replacement pools that haven't been assigned to a squadron? Also there is a lowest value number to the right, does this number take into account factors such as available fuel, airfields and pilots. I ask because according to the manual Air Superiority is calculated as serviceable Allied aircraft divided by serviceable Axis aircraft, in my campaign the AS score is two even though I have about 8000 aircraft serviceable and the enemy around 2500.
I've given up working out the pts system, I just keep up a steady approach and assume the attrition will win it for me, my target (at 2/11/43) is to have Allied losses less than double the luftwaffe, I'm there, just!

Thanks,

Mark

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to mgp104)
Post #: 2
RE: Ground Combat - 1/4/2010 1:15:57 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Hi,

Some of you will know that I have been asking loads of questions about this, I just want to know what is going on........
Dont forget you are playing an air game, and that ground combat will be very abstract.

To set the scene I am playing a '43 Campaign as the Allies, I have now got to the end of Jan. '44. I have been trying hard to damage the ground units in the Gustav Line and have reached a point where I'm making very little progress using all my forces in Italy to bomb the troops. I have fairly badly damaged the supply lines and have also got Rubber industry to below critical level. I have a few questions about various aspects of the game:

1 - The target data screen shows that Armament industry output is 0 even though it is not very badly damaged (~10%). I assume this is because I have crippled the Rubber industry, although I haven't destriyed it so I would assume that armaments would be reduced not zero. Does armament output at zero mean that German armament production is zero, ie. no ground units and flak guns are being produced?
Dont forget you may not get 100% accurate reports, but if Arms industry is at 0, your guess should be correct. But if you are not damaging Ground Units at the same time their is no demand, also is there a pool to be used first.


Remember, if you do not have almost 100% good Recon, your info on what is going on, will not be correct, so saying, if you knocked the Rubber/Chem/what not below the Crit level, Arm numbers will drop to ZERO from a Allied point of view, but not from a Axis point of view, you did hurt them, but it didn't drop to ZERO, not sure why they did it that way, other then to show the player, that something importent happened

2 - I tried looking at the '44 campaign to compare it to my game and at the beginning of the '44 campaign 12th and Med are not being given Avalanche target restrictions, but in my campaign they still are; is this a bug and will 12th and Med ever be released from Avalanche restrictions?
I have the same restriction in Nov 43, after the Avalanche period. Maybe you need to score a number of points to clear it??

there was a old bug in tracking damage for OVERLORD and AVALANCHE, we fixed that, but you still need to get the % damage done, to below a Certain level, and to be honest, I don't even know what the level needed is, just know it is there, which basicly means, you got hammer it HARD, really, you want to paint the area RED, totally RED

3 - Has anyone found any really good ways of attacking troops? Especially causing disruption, I use my heavy/medium bombers at >20000ft to keep flak damage light so that there are lots of aircraft available each day. Also should fighter-bombers be used to 'level' bomb (ie. fly at <5000ft) or to dive-bomb (>5000ft)?
I use Fighter Bombers (P40, Kittyhawk, Typhoons) and Light Bombers (Boston, A20, B26, Baltimore, Mosquito FBVI) at various low-medium (5-15000ft) heights, seems to work OK but only short term (I suppose they use Arm pts to rebuild?)

once dug in, they going to be HARD to dig/blow out, the best damage is once they are moving (either coming in, or retreating, which, is easier to say then to do)

4 - I read somewhere that the Gustav line collapsed at the beginning of June '44, will this happen in the game and is the date that it occurs affected by the amount of effort put into attacking troops and supply lines? I know that breaking through a defensive line is almost impossible but does causing troops damage and forcing them to withdraw from the line through ground attacks 'bring forward' the date for the withdrawal? Basically I am asking is it worth me expending time, aircraft and pilots attacking troops?
The Gustav line collapsed in the Diadem offensive in late May44/early June 44 (Rome fell 5 June 44), I believe you shold keep up a steady assault on the Ground units, this historically the use for much of the areas FB's, keep at it, this game is 700+ turns log and no single days battle will win it.

would have to say, it depends on your point of view, with this game, there are a number of ways to win, and that is up to you to decide, there is no "Correct/Right/Best" way

5 - On the campaign summary screen there are two numbers for German aircraft, the manual says that these are aircraft ready and in brackets aircraft damaged/in maintenance. I assume that this number does not account for aircraft in replacement pools that haven't been assigned to a squadron? Also there is a lowest value number to the right, does this number take into account factors such as available fuel, airfields and pilots. I ask because according to the manual Air Superiority is calculated as serviceable Allied aircraft divided by serviceable Axis aircraft, in my campaign the AS score is two even though I have about 8000 aircraft serviceable and the enemy around 2500.
I've given up working out the pts system, I just keep up a steady approach and assume the attrition will win it for me, my target (at 2/11/43) is to have Allied losses less than double the luftwaffe, I'm there, just!

that has bugged people since the game first came out, and we still are not sure about the how and why it works that way, or how it works, soooo, Yes, planes in the pools do not count, it does count planes that are ready for combat, I do not think it counts planes in reserve, but...

(2 to 1 ? ouch
:)


Thanks,

Mark


_____________________________


(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 3
RE: Ground Combat - 1/4/2010 1:51:55 PM   
Jeldren

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 10/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mgp104

3 - Has anyone found any really good ways of attacking troops? Especially causing disruption, I use my heavy/medium bombers at >20000ft to keep flak damage light so that there are lots of aircraft available each day. Also should fighter-bombers be used to 'level' bomb (ie. fly at <5000ft) or to dive-bomb (>5000ft)?



I had most success with 4 engined britsh bombers and dive bombing fighter bombers. Just change your twin engined bombers to 4 engined britsh bombers. You can also retarget your flights if you want to attack a different target - but some consider this cheating.

(in reply to mgp104)
Post #: 4
RE: Ground Combat - 1/4/2010 7:37:25 PM   
K.Pooley


Posts: 707
Joined: 4/15/2008
From: Crystal Palace, London.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeldren

You can also retarget your flights if you want to attack a different target - but some consider this cheating.


Sorry, you've lost me there. What's wrong with attacking a different target?

Kevin


_____________________________

Kev

Y Ddraig Goch am Byth

(in reply to Jeldren)
Post #: 5
RE: Ground Combat - 1/4/2010 9:49:50 PM   
Jeldren

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 10/21/2009
Status: offline
OK I was a bit unclear. You can attack non avalance targets when you retarget a 12th airforce flight. There are several nice targets close to 12th airforce bases.
e.g. the ball bearing plants near torino.

(in reply to K.Pooley)
Post #: 6
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