TRACOM

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

TRACOM

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> TRACOM

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

TRACOM - 12/12/2009 11:28:05 PM

aoffen

Posts: 365
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: Brisvegas, Australia
Status: offline

I am struggling with the pilot training system. Can someone help?

What effect does sending a pilot into TRACOM have? It doesn't seem to be defined anywhere I can find. Does it increase the experience levels of the new pilots coming out of the training system?

Also how do I form the dedicated training groups that are mentioned in the new manual?

Thanks
Andrew

Post #: 1

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 12:45:26 AM

Rob Brennan UK

Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline

From another post of mine

quote:

I believe it takes a while for pilots to reach TRACOM , and you can request intructors and or veterans directly from there into on map groups.

Yes in one respect its a way of saving your elite pilots for a rainy day and they also have a chance of accelerating pilot training classes. IE occasionally you'll get a message that one class of pilots has advanced to the next level early on the training schedule. Doesnt not affect newly trained pilots skills but does get more pilots upto national level faster.

what the magic number of experienced pilots is ??? its a secret

Dedicated training groups were removed from patch 2 (were only in beta patch 2). run a search as there are a lot of threads about this subject.

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to aoffen)

Post #: 2

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 12:50:43 AM

freeboy

Posts: 8981
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

ok, perhaps not answering a ? is ok, but if you can suggest he run a search, perhaps you could too?
Sending veterans to the school, not training group, will if it works as WAD increase the level of experience of new pilots

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)

Post #: 3

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 12:54:18 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 14356
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ok, perhaps not answering a ? is ok, but if you can suggest he run a search, perhaps you could too?
Sending veterans to the school, not training group, will if it works as WAD increase the level of experience of new pilots

81+ experience pilots put into TRACOM will not increase the experience of the new pilots. They will only decrease the amount of time (normally 12 months) it takes for a pilot to graduate. That newly graduated pilot has the same experience he would have if it had taken him the full 12 months to graduate.

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 4

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 1:34:42 AM

freeboy

Posts: 8981
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

that just wrong! lol

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 5

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 1:40:02 AM

Rob Brennan UK

Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ok, perhaps not answering a ? is ok, but if you can suggest he run a search, perhaps you could too?
Sending veterans to the school, not training group, will if it works as WAD increase the level of experience of new pilots

EH ? how did i not answer the question ? Mike was more concise and accurate i admit , but it is late here

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 6

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 1:40:37 AM

stuman

Posts: 3897
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

that just wrong! lol

Well by dumping new pilots sooner into the pool we get to start training them in the field sooner thereby having them ready sooner for the front line and so forth.

_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 7

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 2:34:47 AM

michaelm

Posts: 11623
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

There is some behind the scenes action with training of raw pilots and TRACOM.

The number of TRACOM guys can increase the month's EXP rating of the raw pilots.
If the new EXP exceeds the national EXP, then a random number of pilots will 'graduate' early.
When this happens, you get a message "instructors accelerate training of" in the operation report.

In general, this jump is only going to occur in the last month of training, unless you add a huge number of pilots to TRACOM.

A rough guide is: for every 10 in TRACOM (of the correct nationality), the monthly EXP might be increased by one.

Adjustments to the pilot training happens on the first day of the month.
The monthly EXP increase of the raw pilots (ignoring TRACOM effect) is a random amount (-2 to +2).
The new monthly EXP starts out as an average of the pilots in the month and those moving from the previous month.

< Message edited by michaelm -- 12/13/2009 2:36:38 AM >

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to stuman)

Post #: 8

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 3:59:50 AM

freeboy

Posts: 8981
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

thanks for all the clearity here...

(in reply to michaelm)

Post #: 9

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 11:53:00 AM

aoffen

Posts: 365
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: Brisvegas, Australia
Status: offline

I am not sure I am any clearer.

If I add 10+ guys into TRACOM I may get my trainees earlier but at the same (low) experience level. Given as the Allies I am awash with pilots already is that such an advantage?

Regards
Andrew

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 10

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 12:30:36 PM

Sardaukar

Posts: 6587
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel/Romania
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aoffen

I am not sure I am any clearer.

If I add 10+ guys into TRACOM I may get my trainees earlier but at the same (low) experience level. Given as the Allies I am awash with pilots already is that such an advantage?

Regards
Andrew

I think it works 2 ways:

1. TRACOM instructors speed up your training, so you get your pilots out faster
2. It helps to keep up the experience level of new pilots (but will not raise them above national/service maximum)

Obviously, main benefactor is Japan, since Allied normal pilot production is good enough. But I have used it as Allied to fight the tendency of average exp of new pilot dropping from for example 30 to 27 or so when producing lot of pilots. I think with TRACOM instructors you get more pilots closer to max exp (in this case 30) than without.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to aoffen)

Post #: 11

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 6:41:50 PM

Rob Brennan UK

Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline

quote:

2. It helps to keep up the experience level of new pilots (but will not raise them above national/service maximum)

Obviously, main benefactor is Japan, since Allied normal pilot production is good enough. But I have used it as Allied to fight the tendency of average exp of new pilot dropping from for example 30 to 27 or so when producing lot of pilots. I think with TRACOM instructors you get more pilots closer to max exp (in this case 30) than without.

I never knew that Sadukar , hope its true as the allied levels do drop. I must give it a try.

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to Sardaukar)

Post #: 12

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 7:00:43 PM

freeboy

Posts: 8981
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

The need to set up training pilots is another example of the game within the game, do we need it? NO, some may want this level, I am officially starting a new fan boy club,
The new club is:
Fanboys of a simplerAE
Why?
I would like to focus on the bigger issues. IS this right or the way it should be? NO!.... Folks here LOVE to look at what color the plane art is, or how to manipulate factor x .. but for myself, only me, I seriously struggle with what I personnally consider details that are totally extrainious to WHY I PLAY.. fun factor. So if anyone is listening PLEASE lets add some toggles... Like a background training one... alll pilots not in a frontline base get x experience per y turns based on z considerations, costing PP points or supply etc.... I consider MANY areas of this game total wasts of MY TIME, are they waste of others? I truly think many detail oriented poeple love this... like a great big Sim city in the PAcific... so, all I am asking is the consideration to automate many of these less desirable, by those in the FOASAE.
My top ten PLEASE are these really neccessary are:
to be addressed ! lol

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)

Post #: 13

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 8:38:23 PM

Jim D Burns

Posts: 3670
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline

LOL, I feel your pain freeboy, I too am sometimes overwhelmed by all the details and minutiae. But I guess I am ultimately guilty of being one of those people you describe, on the whole I love it, even when it overwhelms me. I�m a fanatic when it comes to military history and filling a good game like WitP with all the insignificant bits of history that I love is a dream come true for me, and I suspect for many others as well.

But to address your point about TRACOM, the fact is you don�t need a toggle to use or not use it. You can completely ignore this little tidbit in game and you won�t really suffer much of a detriment to play at all if any. Sure some of your pilots will graduate with a few less points, but that only takes a few days or weeks of in game training flights to make up for.

So in the end TRACOM only allows you to try and hyper streamline your training program. It isn�t a vital function of the game and many of your pilots will still graduate with the same experience they would have had even had you stuffed TRACOM with experienced pilots.

To me the cost of not having all those highly experienced pilots on map and hitting my opponent every turn is too high a price to pay, so I never send any to TRACOM. I�ve noticed no negative effects of the decision at all so far. Perhaps for Japan in late war (44/45) it may make some significant difference, but that remains to be seen.

Jim

_____________________________

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 14

RE: TRACOM - 12/13/2009 11:51:53 PM

freeboy

Posts: 8981
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

can we pull instructors out of Tracom, or are they for the duration?

(in reply to Jim D Burns)

Post #: 15

RE: TRACOM - 12/14/2009 7:42:30 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 6587
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel/Romania
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

can we pull instructors out of Tracom, or are they for the duration?

They can be pulled out after 180 days, IIRC.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 16

RE: TRACOM - 12/14/2009 11:01:28 AM

michaelm

Posts: 11623
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

You don't have to use TRACOM.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 17

RE: TRACOM - 12/14/2009 6:12:27 PM

viberpol

Posts: 834
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

You don't have to use TRACOM.

Quite true. After paying much attention to TRACOM, I recently started to think that it does.... nothing important.
Here is my printscreen from scen. 2 PBEM currently in April.
I placed over 80 elite navy pilots to TRACOM the day 2. As you see even if the average experience in phases (4-6, 7-9) increased, the final level of the experienced pilots out of the flight school actually dropped from 50 to 49.
So to me -- TRACOM does nothing good. Please copare and share your experiences & data!

As I am playing second scenario the number of rookie pilots is just above my imagination. Will I ever start loosing my pilots so fast I gonna really need them?
Instead of accelerating the training, I'd love to see rather smaller numbers but more experienced pilots.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Przy lackim orle, przy koniu Kiejstuta Archanioł Rusi na proporcach błysł

(in reply to michaelm)

Post #: 18

RE: TRACOM - 2/22/2010 9:15:28 PM

Zsolo007

Posts: 113
Joined: 9/16/2009
Status: offline

Viberpol, you were asking me about the rate of increase of average exp in the tech support section.
I attached a screenshot of my tracker history of the pool (It's long, so i did not embed)

The number of pilots in tracom gradually increased, i checked 2 other dates: 143 at feb 5, 226 in april 24, and now 255 in aug 16.

Hope it helps!

Attachment (1)

(in reply to viberpol)

Post #: 19

RE: TRACOM - 2/22/2010 9:31:03 PM

viberpol

Posts: 834
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zsolo007

Viberpol, you were asking me about the rate of increase of average exp in the tech support section.
I attached a screenshot of my tracker history of the pool (It's long, so i did not embed)

The number of pilots in tracom gradually increased, i checked 2 other dates: 143 at feb 5, 226 in april 24, and now 255 in aug 16.

Hope it helps!

Thanks a lot!
Strange.... did you notice that even though the average level of your pilots in tha last phase (months 10-12) has been increasing from the day one (from 40 to 57) -- BUT the average level of your fresh ready pilots remains the same?
Isn't it weird?
If those pilots (10-12) really have any impact on the average, the overall EXP level (third column in tracker) should be increasing.
You're in August now? Any more turns that 118?

< Message edited by viberpol -- 2/22/2010 9:36:29 PM >

_____________________________

Przy lackim orle, przy koniu Kiejstuta Archanioł Rusi na proporcach błysł

(in reply to Zsolo007)

Post #: 20

RE: TRACOM - 2/22/2010 9:39:35 PM

AcePylut

Posts: 1008
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline

Why bother with training pilots via tracom?

What exp do Jap pilots come out of the pool with after 12 months of training... can I get that exp faster by just taking an untrained pilot and having him fight for a couple months?

_____________________________

(in reply to viberpol)

Post #: 21

RE: TRACOM - 2/22/2010 9:40:04 PM

Zsolo007

Posts: 113
Joined: 9/16/2009
Status: offline

118? What do you mean? The picture shows turn until 253 (which was the current one, i just got a new turn :) )

I believe the national exp doesn't change because without TRACOM pilots it would be decreasing. According to the editor, IJN average should be 45 in '43. But it doesn't just change to 45 at January 1, it gradually decreases. So TRACOM pilots are actually keeping it up...

(in reply to viberpol)

Post #: 22

RE: TRACOM - 2/22/2010 9:45:55 PM

viberpol

Posts: 834
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zsolo007

118? What do you mean? The picture shows turn until 253 (which was the current one, i just got a new turn :) )

I believe the national exp doesn't change because without TRACOM pilots it would be decreasing. According to the editor, IJN average should be 45 in '43. But it doesn't just change to 45 at January 1, it gradually decreases. So TRACOM pilots are actually keeping it up...

Arggh... sorry, I opened it only in the browser, so didn't see the whole picture.
As for the national level. As Michaelm wrote in some other thread, pilots from the last level of training should increase the basic overall.

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
When the pilots from the training cycle (806 at exp 63) arrive (end of month), the average exp is recalculated.
This would come out as about 51 assuming the numbers stay constant.
Replacement pilots are always pulled from the 'In pool column'.

So I think, that it should be increasing from turn 208, when you reached the level of 54.
Those pilots, when transfered to general replacement pool should INCREASE the level of experience in this column.
But your level lowers to 49...

Maybe it's just equating with the programmed decrease, but...
I'd really like to see the change in the next month of your game, because the change from 54 to 63 (10-12) is a hell of a difference.

< Message edited by viberpol -- 2/22/2010 9:52:11 PM >

_____________________________

Przy lackim orle, przy koniu Kiejstuta Archanioł Rusi na proporcach błysł

(in reply to Zsolo007)

Post #: 23

RE: TRACOM - 2/22/2010 10:07:11 PM

Zsolo007

Posts: 113
Joined: 9/16/2009
Status: offline

Sure, i will post next month's numbers....
Also i bumped up the IJN TRACOM pool to 334 :)

(in reply to viberpol)

Post #: 24

RE: TRACOM - 2/25/2010 9:10:05 PM

Zsolo007

Posts: 113
Joined: 9/16/2009
Status: offline

The turn of the month came to pass....and what michaelm wrote did not happen...

The question is..why?

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Zsolo007)

Post #: 25

RE: TRACOM - 2/26/2010 4:58:33 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 22249
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

To add my experiences to the discussion:

I have something like 15 TRACOM pilots from the IJAAF. On March 1, 1942, I received an OPS message indicating that 154 IJA pilots had had their training expedited.

I'd be interested in hearing others' formulae as we move forward. Please update with your OPS information.

_____________________________

(in reply to Zsolo007)

Post #: 26

RE: TRACOM - 2/26/2010 5:37:39 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 14356
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

Very nice Chickenboy. I've finally bumped up my IJN TRACOM pilots to 20. I'm hoping for the best.

Did those 154 all graduate, or were they from different "classes" (months)?

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 27

RE: TRACOM - 2/26/2010 5:37:40 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 14356
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 28

RE: TRACOM - 2/26/2010 7:11:43 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 22249
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Hi Mike,

I'm not sure I understand your question. Sorry.

_____________________________

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 29

RE: TRACOM - 2/26/2010 7:28:04 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 14356
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

Did they all graduate early or were they in different months of training and they advanced an extra month? (x pilots went from month 1 to 3, y pilots went from month 8 to 10, etc.)

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 30