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why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking difficult???

 
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why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking difficul... - 12/10/2009 9:30:40 PM   
sandman2575


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The very first "boot camp" campaign mission is really starting to piss me off. it's not fun, and i'm just trying to get past it so i can get to the other missions. i must have tried it about 2 dozen times now, and i cannot beat it. Even on "easy". And no, i'm not an idiot, and yes, i have read the manual carefully.

The best i can seem to do is get one squad into the church, where it is pretty good at picking off enemies and spotting for the mortars (which only come into the scenario so late -- turn 10? -- that they're not much use). But even if my squad in the church survives until the end, I can't get the objective Flag to turn from Red (soviet) to Blue (german) no matter what i do.

i have to say, given that this is the introductory mission, i have no idea why the developers decided to make it so difficult. The infantry aspect of PZC Kharkov is the least attractive part of the game IMO... the gfx and animations are clumsy, and i am already *really* sick of the jabbering troops who keep repeating the same sentence over and over.

How do I just get past this mission so I can try to begin to enjoy the game????
Post #: 1
RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/10/2009 10:04:09 PM   
Stridor


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sandman,

The boot camp series was designed to teach you the finer points of using infantry in PCK by using very specific but limited objectives.

It is not the traditional introduction to PCK tutorial. For that you can play Erik's intro mission.

There are hints on how to complete the mission at the bottom of every briefing if you want to scroll down to read them.

Your mortars are a bit random. Check every turn. It is possible that you get unlucky and they don't green light until late, but after play testing this what seems like 10000 times, you should be able to complete the first boot camp mission ~7-8/10.

Lessons that BC#1 was desined to impart:

1. Give an idea about infantry rush speed vs distance covered.
2. Coordination of offboard arty timing and infantry move orders.
3. Coordinarion of thrown smoke grenades and infantry movement timing.
4. Learning how "thick" smoke needs to be to block LOS.
5. Learning how to throw arrange platoon smoke grenades for maximum coverage
6. Learning how to best target mortar smoke for maximum coverage where it is need to block enemy LOS.

Regards

S.

(in reply to sandman2575)
Post #: 2
RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/10/2009 10:04:11 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Most important thing to say is that you don't need to do Boot Camp. If you find it frustrating, just fight a historical campaign or create a small random battle for practice.

With that said, once you get the hang of that first scenario you won't have trouble with it again. I haven't gone through Boot Camp in a while, but as I recall the goal is to make proper use of smoke to get to the church successfully and the flag won't flip until the balance of the enemies nearby are destroyed or routed. I'll play through it again tonight to see if I can give more specific advice, but I think there may even be a walkthrough in one of the older threads.

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RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/10/2009 10:05:01 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Stridor's advice is also excellent as always.

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RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/11/2009 1:14:36 AM   
sandman2575


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I appreciate the feedback, Stridor & Erik.  Didn't mean to sound like I was going off on a rant...  Just after failing to beat this mission for the umpteenth time, my patience had worn thin when I wrote my post.

The reason I want to go through the Boot Camp campaign is exactly so I can figure out the finer points of the game -- I've tried jumping into the bigger campaigns and definitely feel i'm not up to snuff there.  But with the 1st boot camp, it is frustrating because yes, i do get the point of it:  learning how to use cover and smoke effectively, figuring out LOS, rushing vs. advancing vs. engaging, etc. etc.  But it really does not need to be so hard -- you're overwhelmingly outnumbered, and even with smoke, have to cross a wide-open field where you're vulnerable to cross fire from concealed/protected positions on all sides.

I do like a challenge, believe me... but such a stiff challnege on the opening mission of the tutorial campaign?

OK, i've gotten it out of my system now... will boot up & give it another try...

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 5
RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/11/2009 2:25:22 AM   
Mobius


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You don't need to beat every unit on the map. You win by getting to the church with more troops than there are enemy near it.

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Post #: 6
RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/11/2009 7:30:00 AM   
Rick

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman2575

I appreciate the feedback, Stridor & Erik.  Didn't mean to sound like I was going off on a rant...  Just after failing to beat this mission for the umpteenth time, my patience had worn thin when I wrote my post.

The reason I want to go through the Boot Camp campaign is exactly so I can figure out the finer points of the game -- I've tried jumping into the bigger campaigns and definitely feel i'm not up to snuff there.  But with the 1st boot camp, it is frustrating because yes, i do get the point of it:  learning how to use cover and smoke effectively, figuring out LOS, rushing vs. advancing vs. engaging, etc. etc.  But it really does not need to be so hard -- you're overwhelmingly outnumbered, and even with smoke, have to cross a wide-open field where you're vulnerable to cross fire from concealed/protected positions on all sides.

I do like a challenge, believe me... but such a stiff challnege on the opening mission of the tutorial campaign?

OK, i've gotten it out of my system now... will boot up & give it another try...



It's been a long time since I played the first Boot Camp. But I seem to recall needing to get one squad in the church, and another plretty close. And needing to kill the Gun in the street to win (at least I think that is the one).

If you don't get it in another try or two, post again. It really is doable. I recall enjoying the boot camp scenarios as much as the other stock battles!

It might be fun to see a play by play AAR for that!

Thanks
Rick



(in reply to sandman2575)
Post #: 7
RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/11/2009 9:16:47 PM   
sandman2575


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick

But I seem to recall needing to get one squad in the church, and another plretty close. And needing to kill the Gun in the street to win (at least I think that is the one).





I've definitely gotten 2 sqauds in the church & managed to kill the AT gun 1 or 2 times -- but that still was not enough to beat the scenario. Actually, last time I got 2 squads in, they stuck around for a turn or so and then got the "unit shatters" message (forget exact wording -- guess it happens if morale drops to low???) which led them to flee the building and run straight into devastating cross-fire which, you know, killed them. I was not pleased.

*Sigh* -- gave this a couple more goes last night, and still no luck. Really just wish i could unlock the next missions at this point...

(in reply to Rick)
Post #: 8
RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/11/2009 9:51:01 PM   
Stridor


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sandman,

I went back and played the first BC and it won't come as any comfort to you that I got a legendary victory on first try.

The first BC teaches you a whole lot about infantry management and arty control, so don't feel too bad about struggling.

In the scenario sub forum I have posted step by step saves of how I did it so you can follow along.

Regards

S.


(in reply to sandman2575)
Post #: 9
RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/11/2009 9:53:22 PM   
Rick

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman2575


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick

But I seem to recall needing to get one squad in the church, and another plretty close. And needing to kill the Gun in the street to win (at least I think that is the one).





I've definitely gotten 2 sqauds in the church & managed to kill the AT gun 1 or 2 times -- but that still was not enough to beat the scenario. Actually, last time I got 2 squads in, they stuck around for a turn or so and then got the "unit shatters" message (forget exact wording -- guess it happens if morale drops to low???) which led them to flee the building and run straight into devastating cross-fire which, you know, killed them. I was not pleased.

*Sigh* -- gave this a couple more goes last night, and still no luck. Really just wish i could unlock the next missions at this point...


Thats strange. I may have to fire this up again myself. I really thought that getting couple of squads to the church and killing the gun was enough to trigger a victory. I'll have try it again and see if something has changed. (oh, and make sure you save your game as soon as you get to the church!

EDIT: Looks like Stridor is a step ahead as usual!

Thanks!
Rick


< Message edited by Rick -- 12/11/2009 10:26:13 PM >

(in reply to sandman2575)
Post #: 10
RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/11/2009 9:55:01 PM   
Stridor


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Another two (edit: Three) tips I can give you.

1. Make sure your platoon LEADER gets to the church tower. This will give him the best spotting vantage point. If necessary move another squad out of that position if they were the first there.

2. Remember that after you have used your mortars for smoke, then you can use them for a HE mission. This makes it easy to take out the AT gun and russian squads entrenched in houses.

3. (Three Tips): Use massed infantry fire from the church to get the job done. It is tempting to individually target the enemy, but in this case you want overkill as time is not on your side.

Keep trying, it is easy once you know how to time and coordinate the various CA elements, mastering this lesson will help immensly for the main campaign games.

Regards

S.

< Message edited by Stridor -- 12/11/2009 9:58:08 PM >

(in reply to Stridor)
Post #: 11
RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/16/2009 3:07:49 PM   
sandman2575


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For what it's worth -- Finally managed to get past BC 1.  Anyone else who is struggling with it may be relieved to know that the 5 missions that follow are much, *much* easier. (Not sure why the first mission needed to be so disproportionately difficult though.)

Stridor’s tips are all helpful.  I would just add a few things that helped me.

1. Check to see if you can get arty barrage on Turn 1.  Use it right away to *lay smoke* in the vicinity of the church and the house to the right that is garrisoned.

2. Realize that your troops can cover *a lot* of distance rushing.  They can essentially get from the woods to the church in a single turn (Orders + Reaction).

3. With this in mind, wait for the smoke to develop a few turns.  Try to pick off the sniper in the tower in the meantime from your position in the cover of the woods.  Then, when you’ve got a lot of *thick* smoke to cover your advance, RUSH all the way from the woods to the church.  One of your squads may get suppressed in the process.  But do whatever it takes to get most of your troops to the church EARLY in the scenario – by turn 5 or 6.

4 Once you’ve garrisoned the Church, you should have 6 turns or so to pick off the AT gun and nearby troops, and you should be able to ‘capture the flag’ & beat the scenario.

The other missions are a cinch by comparison.  But worth going through, I’ve found, to get you to think about how to use infantry effectively.

(in reply to Stridor)
Post #: 12
RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/16/2009 4:03:53 PM   
Rick

 

Posts: 12365
Joined: 4/20/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman2575

For what it's worth -- Finally managed to get past BC 1.  Anyone else who is struggling with it may be relieved to know that the 5 missions that follow are much, *much* easier. (Not sure why the first mission needed to be so disproportionately difficult though.)

Stridor’s tips are all helpful.  I would just add a few things that helped me.

1. Check to see if you can get arty barrage on Turn 1.  Use it right away to *lay smoke* in the vicinity of the church and the house to the right that is garrisoned.

2. Realize that your troops can cover *a lot* of distance rushing.  They can essentially get from the woods to the church in a single turn (Orders + Reaction).

3. With this in mind, wait for the smoke to develop a few turns.  Try to pick off the sniper in the tower in the meantime from your position in the cover of the woods.  Then, when you’ve got a lot of *thick* smoke to cover your advance, RUSH all the way from the woods to the church.  One of your squads may get suppressed in the process.  But do whatever it takes to get most of your troops to the church EARLY in the scenario – by turn 5 or 6.

4 Once you’ve garrisoned the Church, you should have 6 turns or so to pick off the AT gun and nearby troops, and you should be able to ‘capture the flag’ & beat the scenario.

The other missions are a cinch by comparison.  But worth going through, I’ve found, to get you to think about how to use infantry effectively.



hey Great! and Thanks for the tips!

Rick

(in reply to sandman2575)
Post #: 13
RE: why is the first Boot Camp mission so freaking diff... - 12/17/2009 9:57:16 AM   
Stridor


Posts: 5078
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman2575

For what it's worth -- Finally managed to get past BC 1.  Anyone else who is struggling with it may be relieved to know that the 5 missions that follow are much, *much* easier. (Not sure why the first mission needed to be so disproportionately difficult though.)

Stridor’s tips are all helpful.  I would just add a few things that helped me.

1. Check to see if you can get arty barrage on Turn 1.  Use it right away to *lay smoke* in the vicinity of the church and the house to the right that is garrisoned.

2. Realize that your troops can cover *a lot* of distance rushing.  They can essentially get from the woods to the church in a single turn (Orders + Reaction).

3. With this in mind, wait for the smoke to develop a few turns.  Try to pick off the sniper in the tower in the meantime from your position in the cover of the woods.  Then, when you’ve got a lot of *thick* smoke to cover your advance, RUSH all the way from the woods to the church.  One of your squads may get suppressed in the process.  But do whatever it takes to get most of your troops to the church EARLY in the scenario – by turn 5 or 6.

4 Once you’ve garrisoned the Church, you should have 6 turns or so to pick off the AT gun and nearby troops, and you should be able to ‘capture the flag’ & beat the scenario.

The other missions are a cinch by comparison.  But worth going through, I’ve found, to get you to think about how to use infantry effectively.



Congrats sandman!

I think you found the other BC missions easier because you learnt so much whilst trying to solve the first one!

Seriously you will be a much better player now because of it.

Regards

S.

(in reply to sandman2575)
Post #: 14
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