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odd? - 12/10/2009 3:36:39 AM   
freeboy

 

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ok, I keep looking at this title, and after reading a good amount of the posts here, what exactly is winning as either side?
I understand there is alot of detail managment, planes, altitudes radar .. each side very different
Any comments from thsoe playing to try to help me get my head around what a winning effort looks like? THANKS
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RE: odd? - 12/10/2009 8:09:33 AM   
TechSgt

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ok, I keep looking at this title, and after reading a good amount of the posts here, what exactly is winning as either side?
I understand there is alot of detail managment, planes, altitudes radar .. each side very different
Any comments from thsoe playing to try to help me get my head around what a winning effort looks like? THANKS


In the LONG campaigns:
The Offensive player -- Axis in BOB or Allies in BtR -- bear the brunt in winning. What I mean, is the defenders generally win by just surviving.
The victory points consist of three basic areas, Air Superiority, Industry Damage, and Terror. In the longest campaign, you have 700 days to acquire 85+ points. There are sudden death losses for the offensive players. If you do not have enough points at specific times. This doesn't mean the Axis are going to invade England and history is changed, it is more like you get relieved and sent to a backwater airfield training pilots.


In the SHORT campaigns:
The game revolves around a more specific goal, destroy certain factories, shoot down enemy planes, conduct a tactical campaign just prior to an invasion, etc. You will receive victory points for accomplishing the specific requirements. You tend to play these to sharpen your skills in that specific area before tackling the long campaign.

Hope this helps?
TS



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RE: odd? - 12/10/2009 6:07:03 PM   
MajorDude


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I forget, what is the number of points the allied side must not fall below to keep playing the game in the btr long scenarios? What is it for the axis side in bob?

I never will forget the first time that time happened to me because I was changing plane types and resting up my units during some bad weather months - I was like "What the hey?" lol

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RE: odd? - 12/10/2009 6:59:53 PM   
freeboy

 

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Seems kind of hard to get excited about winning.. I am a very goal oriented gamer, playing to simply relive the experience falls short and thats what this sounds like to me, I am sure I am wrong

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RE: odd? - 12/10/2009 7:31:15 PM   
Golden Bear

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Seems kind of hard to get excited about winning.. I am a very goal oriented gamer, playing to simply relive the experience falls short and thats what this sounds like to me, I am sure I am wrong


No, I believe that you are correct. It takes months or even years to play a single campaign as an Allied player. A lot of the pleasure along the way comes from plotting each day's missions as almost a separate mini-game and seeing how well your plans work out. You don't "win" with one or two bold strokes but by slow imposition of your own plan of attack.

Winning as the Allied player comes after hundreds of turns, some of which will take you hours to plot and observe. The last month or so of play is frustrating becasue there isn't much left to hit and the LW AI is rebuilding fairly rapidly while you continue to try to build up enough Strategic Bombing/Terror points to try to end things. When I say that the rebuilding is "rapid" I don't mean at individual sites. They rebuild sort of linearly but as more sites get damaged the cumulative effect of a little rebuilding at each site adds up to quite a bit.

I find it to be a compelling game but I also recognize that it does not necessarily fit for everybody.


Carlos

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RE: odd? - 12/10/2009 7:51:47 PM   
Nicholas Bell

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy
Seems kind of hard to get excited about winning.. I am a very goal oriented gamer, playing to simply relive the experience falls short and thats what this sounds like to me, I am sure I am wrong


This game is very much more about the journey (ie process) than the destination. In the end victory is the result of the ground forces advancing and capturing territory. Of course the player has some impact on how fast or slow this happens, but it's well-nigh impossible to actually discern your impact. Apart from a sudden-death loss on points by the Allies, I do not believe it is possible for the German player to "win". That is, he's not going to stop the Soviets and Allied forces from conquering Germany.

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RE: odd? - 12/10/2009 10:34:32 PM   
freeboy

 

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ok, I played the first, published, turn equals a day witp pbem aar, so I KNOW about the juorney.. trust me witp is much bigger than this.. and day turns too. so, my point is, inwitp you where trying to defeat your enemy, to sink his ships and either beat the historical timeline or prevent the US from invading, again beating the historical timeline, with points thrown in so you could compare sides..
lets shrink the ? down... what does winning look like if you are the allies? You bomb x number of production, rail and other points by y in the timeline? losses? other

(in reply to Nicholas Bell)
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RE: odd? - 12/11/2009 7:30:51 AM   
TechSgt

 

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This has become an interesting question. I am a dedicated Allied player.

The last TOH Allies '43 long campaign I started, I wanted to see if I could WIN before or shortly after D-Day. Just to see if it could be done. You know -- the bomber barons' dream.

But, I have never started a campaign -- except the first one -- thinking I might lose. The ground forces are going to advance and the Allies are going to win the game. I have never gotten to the 700th turn.

A month or two after the victory display, I usually thought of trying another strategy or operational tactic and would be back at it again.

Now the scenarios, you can lose those!

What we need is a dedicated Axis player to jump in here.

TS

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 8
RE: odd? - 12/11/2009 2:57:28 PM   
Hard Sarge


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well, from the old JC board and others, there are many more Axis winners of the game then there were Allied, and most Allied winners could be counted on one hand (we got 3 of them here on this board)

(IIRC, it is 2 points x months played, it is the Overlord Manatory targetting phase that kills most Allied players (my first win, I was shocked later, when I went back looking it over, how close I had come to losing the game, my best/fastest win was Aug 44, after that, I was always working with JC on his OOBs, so never got to play a game for long, with out needing a new restart)

as for WitP, not sure they compare, I loved WitP/UV (don't have the time to work with WitP:AE yet) but once the first couple of turns are done, you can blow though the turns, running though a active month in one setting was no big deal

_____________________________


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