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Early feedback and pro/con

 
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Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 4:10:38 PM   
Archy

 

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From: Montreal, Québec
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Greetings

I play any genre but in the 4x type i played these : SE5,GALCIV2+expantions,SOTS,LE:I.

I find Armada 2526 a melting pot of all those but in a better flow/balance.

Armada is by far the one with most potential to my eyes and also the most stylish. Graphics are top notch in both starmap and combat modes.
The whole thing is very well blended togheter and i love both equally as i do play my combats most of the time. I wish i could change font/font size and perhaps some other hud UI schemes and id like to choose my Flag Logo+Color and other stuff like that.

When you first pick up the game you are a bit overwhelmed but after an hour or so you get past the learning curve of the UI and it all becomes very clear, very fast, and also becomes impressive. One of the best UI i have seen in a 4x game and also lots of potential. Yet again, i wish you could move windows though.

I started with the tutorial, and learned my way trough. It was a very good experience as i learned a lot from mistakes and after 3 games in about 2 evenings i eventually took my objective.

The custom game options are pretty cool. Im started experimenting with options and after 2 trys i found a sweet spot i wanted to to play in because i didnt know how dense/sparse stuff would be etc.

So my first game is 120x80 16 players and 2000 turns. I'm at 210 atm.

Very impressed with this new 4x game. I will state my pro's/con's and whats obviously missing to my eyes. Keep in mind that the game is not perfect and never will be but i have never had so much fun in a 4x game.

Pros :

- Feels almost like a next gen 4x game due to the pace/combat.
- I enjoy both starmap&combat ui's and graphics.
- Depth in some various areas
- Impressive technology/diplomacy aspects/systems.
- Logistic/Economy actually feels like one. *i do not agree that the economy needs a boost for humans*
- Replayability
- up to 104 players, 1 million turns. Custom games have great options.
- Games have a good pace
- There are great formation types in the realtime combat, combined arms on planets is awesome.
- Nice overall system for structures, defences, ships, fleets, details, colonys.
- I found the game quite original in how you have to manage technology/research
- Good balance of micro/macro and gameplay balance.
- Great Charts for stats

Now here's what i feel are the Major things missing , theres not much imho.

1 : This game needs multiplayer, lan/tcp ip , pbem. Ill buy 3 more copies if you give me lan and spread the word, the game has too much potential both coop and pvp. Give people a chat lobby/metaserver if possible

2 : This game has a great technology/research system but to be honest i think the tech tree should continue at least 2x longer if not more. Perhaps there should be a way to add / remove techs in the tree to make games shorter/longer. Its clear that they could double the tech tree size, the branches are great, but it ends too quickly for my taste as i found the game to actually progress faster than the other 4x games ive played without removing depth.
*i honestly feel like the current tech tree is perfect but JUST for the tutorial , should be much longer/bigger in a real game with options if possible*

3 : The game needs custom ships/factions , i like the variety but there is not enough depth in ship/faction customization. This game really needs some kind of faction creator with list of traits etc, and flag/icon choices and color/picture. Im not asking 3 decks of 20 slots for my merlins or fancy useless 3d designs but a little more depth in the Faction/internal areas. The game outshines your spaceship/ground unit content imho its not on par yet in terms of depth. More planet variety / randomness would be nice. More random stats on various things making the totality less 'generic'.


Other than that theres very few minor annoyances.

- I can alt tab but music volume goes maxxed when coming back in.
- When someone makes you an offer the offer balance does not adjust unless you counter offer.
- Player opinion/agreement review windows can be hard to find
- Lack of Internal control/Lack of unique structures
- ai pathing exploits ( i can handle and survive vs 40 ships with 2 militias, there are pathing exploits)
- cannot tilt the starmap (beautifull 2d that would deserve some kind of way to turn/tilt)
- not enough hovering pop up informations
- overall feels great, lots of potential still for adding/perfecting. There is always room for perfection. Clearly.


In conclusion, i feel like this game is by far the best 4x title out there in every aspect altough a bit incomplete in other suprising aspects like multiplayer. This game screams coop/pvp and also deserves it, just like a 'complete' tech tree and more content in the ship customisation area. It's really not much and the minor stuff is not as important as its mostly bugs/glitches. I find the game quite stable but i had error once in tutorial. Great tutorial can be helpfull before getting into the big game.

I would recomend this game to anyone whos into 4x games , the game overall is impressive without being too overwhelming. It needs a few more features/patches/fixes and its really a must. Right now you can easily make a custom game that suits your taste in terms of star density/ universe size / faction numbers etc and can get a very nice experience.

right now this game is a solid 7.5/10 , can easily reach 9.5 with something similar to what i mentionned in a very short time. Polishing / new features and new content will make this game successfull if taken seriously. This game has modding and i would like to remind the devs that 4x games are not stricly for people who play alone, especially armada 2526 with the hybrid combat/starmap as well as a very original technology/research system that's not being used at it's maximum potential.

Have fun and S!



< Message edited by Archy -- 12/2/2009 4:17:51 PM >


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S!
Nicolas "Archy" Menard
Post #: 1
RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 4:18:03 PM   
Iceman

 

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I agree the game feels streamlined for the smaller maps.

quote:

- ai pathing exploits ( i can handle and survive vs 40 ships with 2 militias, there are pathing exploits)


You found that too
I'm looking into decreasing the movement stats of ground units (tac speed, accel) to avoid this kind of thing.

(in reply to Archy)
Post #: 2
RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 4:25:28 PM   
Archy

 

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From: Montreal, Québec
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This game has very efficient logistic system and also navigation is excellent. Probably one of the best i have played where i could set a real logistic system with shuttling , etc. 

They need to add various structures like escape pods on planets to maybe retreat ground units

Dont expect that kind of kiting to work then the ai brings out ground attack units like few Neutronium Dragons hehehe   

_____________________________

S!
Nicolas "Archy" Menard

(in reply to Iceman)
Post #: 3
RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 4:49:57 PM   
Iceman

 

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Navigation in the starmap? There's only one thing I don't like, and that's the pathfinding. Movement in hyperspace should be in a straight line, given that you can't change course during transit (at least until you have the tech). But fleets will go around Dust Clouds if it takes less time. Kind of breaks immersion, and makes Scouts and Dust Navigation techs less useful (I don't really bother researching these for myself).

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RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 5:07:21 PM   
Archy

 

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From: Montreal, Québec
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Iceman i do agree at some extent, but why would we sacrifice such a great feature ? we should perhaps add other random space debris and modifiers.

Movement is planned according to your technology of hyperspace wormholes and you can see the green icons when in the order window.
Why would your ship take a path that takes more turns to get to destination ? 

naviguating in dust without malus should be a privilege, not a standard. 
Higher technology could simply unlock new structures that give your fleets certain modifiers , etc 
The Technology tree and some other aspects need a little expantions to be on par with the rest.

I would like more variety and diversity in all aspects too if possible, the game has to be slightly more consistent in tech/faction progression.
Strategic and Tactical and Logistical depth in this game outshines those specific aspects , and the game is missing the multiplayer feature to be called a 'MUST/Classic'.





< Message edited by Archy -- 12/2/2009 5:09:00 PM >


_____________________________

S!
Nicolas "Archy" Menard

(in reply to Iceman)
Post #: 5
RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 6:48:40 PM   
ShotmanMaslo

 

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I agree on the tech tree expansion. In a 4X game, tech tree is NEVER too long!

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RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 7:24:00 PM   
Iceman

 

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Not sure what you mean by sacrificing a feature. By going in a straight line, you also have to go through the Dust Clouds, and you'll have to take their penalties whether you want or not. Hence the Dust Navigation techs and the Scout's ability being more relevant - not less. That was my point. If you can go around them and save time, researching the techs is not that useful.

(in reply to ShotmanMaslo)
Post #: 7
RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 7:39:11 PM   
Archy

 

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From: Montreal, Québec
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I think first tech makes you 'less slow' and second tech removes slowdown malus in dust and heavy dust iirc. Going slower means less squares per turn so thats why hes going around because he can also go take a longer route around but the sectors have no malus from dust. The same logic applys for wormholes after you DISCOVER THEM MANUALLY, you automaticly use them if you can take them for shorter paths. scouts for scouting / baiting for a cassius belli and many other things, scouts ability is to give you reconnaissance/intelligence. Also you can use them for wormholes afaik and they are cheap units for frontline baiting if you want to get a nice war going with some support of other factions. They are a cheap alternative to deal away valuable map information and get really suprised.

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Nicolas "Archy" Menard

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RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 7:50:46 PM   
Iceman

 

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Well, I know what the techs do, obviously I also know why the scout was going around. That was not the point.

(in reply to Archy)
Post #: 9
RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 8:23:34 PM   
Archy

 

Posts: 100
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From: Montreal, Québec
Status: offline
It would be nice if they added some system where you combine ship types into 1 or something. Like a Transport could be merged with another to become both the escort and the transport?
Id like a way to protect frontline logistic with some escorts/patrols.

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S!
Nicolas "Archy" Menard

(in reply to Iceman)
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RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 9:51:36 PM   
Starfry

 

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One minor con with the tech tree is that several techs are missing what is required to build these structures.  It is a frustrating experience trying to balance your economy when you forget terraform requires heavy industrial structures to create.

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RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 9:53:24 PM   
Tom_Holsinger

 

Posts: 233
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Archy asked me to comment:

quote:

Pros :

- Feels almost like a next gen 4x game due to the pace/combat.
- I enjoy both starmap&combat ui's and graphics.

Combat UI mediocre because you can’t “rope” groups of ships

quote:

- Depth in some various areas

Emphasis on “some”

quote:

- Impressive technology/diplomacy aspects/systems.

Only diplomacy, which is excellent

quote:

- Logistic/Economy actually feels like one. *i do not agree that the economy needs a boost for humans*

Disagree

quote:

- Replayability

Very true

quote:

- up to 104 players, 1 million turns. Custom games have great options.

Needs race customization feature

quote:

- Games have a good pace

Pacing is it’s best feature, and this more than outweighs all problems

quote:

- There are great formation types in the realtime combat, combined arms on planets is awesome.

Haven’t tried that yet

quote:

- Nice overall system for structures, defences, ships, fleets, details, colonys.

Very easy to use, which makes fast pacing possible

quote:

- I found the game quite original in how you have to manage technology/research

Not that original – resembles 20-30 year-old space 4x games

quote:

- Good balance of micro/macro and gameplay balance.

best feature - makes fast pacing possible

quote:

- Great Charts for stats

Good, not great - desperately needs one for revenue from treaties with AI empires

quote:

Now here's what i feel are the Major things missing , theres not much imho.

1 : This game needs multiplayer, lan/tcp ip , pbem. Ill buy 3 more copies if you give me lan and spread the word, the game has too much potential both coop and pvp. Give people a chat lobby/metaserver if possible

needs hotseat to allow pbem. Not well suited for LAN

quote:

2 : This game has a great technology/research system but to be honest i think the tech tree should continue at least 2x longer if not more. Perhaps there should be a way to add / remove techs in the tree to make games shorter/longer. Its clear that they could double the tech tree size, the branches are great, but it ends too quickly for my taste as i found the game to actually progress faster than the other 4x games ive played without removing depth.

Tech system is simplistic and desperately needs more techs, especially income-producing Structures

quote:

*i honestly feel like the current tech tree is perfect but JUST for the tutorial , should be much longer/bigger in a real game with options if possible*

More of everything

quote:

3 : The game needs custom ships/factions , i like the variety but there is not enough depth in ship/faction customization. This game really needs some kind of faction creator with list of traits etc, and flag/icon choices and color/picture. Im not asking 3 decks of 20 slots for my merlins or fancy useless 3d designs but a little more depth in the Faction/internal areas. The game outshines your spaceship/ground unit content imho its not on par yet in terms of depth. More planet variety / randomness would be nice. More random stats on various things making the totality less 'generic'.

Could not agree more, but pre-release budget limited. Ntronium & Matrix properly rely on fans to fill in these gaps

quote:

Other than that theres very few minor annoyances.

- I can alt tab but music volume goes maxxed when coming back in.

Known bug – patch in progress – just turn sound off on Direc Sound tab

quote:

- When someone makes you an offer the offer balance does not adjust unless you counter offer.
- Player opinion/agreement review windows can be hard to find

Agree

quote:

- Lack of Internal control/Lack of unique structures

Due to limited budget, so players should create their own

quote:

- ai pathing exploits ( i can handle and survive vs 40 ships with 2 militias, there are pathing exploits)
- cannot tilt the starmap (beautifull 2d that would deserve some kind of way to turn/tilt)

- not enough hovering pop up informations

Low budget again – needs a real manual

(in reply to Archy)
Post #: 12
RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/2/2009 11:26:41 PM   
Archy

 

Posts: 100
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From: Montreal, Québec
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Thank you for feedback.

I agree , the strong points lacking is custom race with traits , flag/logo/color and perhaps push on the occasion to add certain choices of ship/unit/structure types.

For example  a bigger tech tree could bring lots of things needed. like a second tier option for custom games for lowtech/hightech games. I would gladly take 3-4 technology tiers of 250-500 turns like we have right now. Besides I really feel like capping a technology type atm is way too fast , but its not the time it takes its the lack of a real hightech tier that continues on and completes the game .

This all resumes to a custom option called 'slow/fast research' and also more Tech Tiers is much more appealing and convenient, this would allow more specialisation and bolder tactics with the risk/gamble being bigger as well.

We need more structure variant and perhaps more 'rarity' as well. 

My problem is not really income or pollution or bureaucracy but the way technology stops makes the rest of the game stop as well. Technologys dont have to be 3d models all the time they could be a 1% buff and still make a difference if you go that way.

Just about the only nice thing in SOASE (barely a 4x game imho and limited content) is technology level where some techs have 2-3 levels. This could be very interesting for many types of new technologys and actually use it's potential more.

Heres some very basic ideas that i would gladly take anyday as new techs :

- Any types of buffs, in % , passive
- New Structures/defenses
- Colony type buffs
- Diplomatic/Economic/Logistic buffs
- Ship type Buffs
- Regional buffs/debuffs for friendly/ennemy fleets
- Electronic Warfare
- Spy Tools
- Counter Measures
- More drones and remote weapons
- explosives, beacons, traps , etc

It would be nice to feel that your faction is also on par with the rest of the game's depth. I love playing humans right now but it's almost funny considering the sheer depth of most aspects but this is only suprising

I would like to be able to use my ships and technology in a more specialised/unique/original way that would be unique and my own. Im suprised because the game does not need gazillions of patches and i dont need 500 more ship types its very obvious what we need there is some sugar coating missing in some aspects  






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Nicolas "Archy" Menard

(in reply to Tom_Holsinger)
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RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/3/2009 12:17:28 AM   
Tom_Holsinger

 

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Perhaps the speed of research into more advanced techs could be slowed down by Bureaucracy.

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RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/3/2009 1:34:32 AM   
ezz

 

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In combat are there any range circles? I have no idea at the moment when something is in range so just charge everyone ahead. Its hard to identify own ships on map and identify enemy.
I may have missed something but a present I can't see why people like the combat.


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RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/3/2009 9:26:58 PM   
laika


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Joined: 10/27/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ezz

In combat are there any range circles? I have no idea at the moment when something is in range so just charge everyone ahead. Its hard to identify own ships on map and identify enemy.
I may have missed something but a present I can't see why people like the combat.




-I,m also missing this kind of information. Also the distance to the enemy for the perect range for my wapons.
-How about shields, when purple yes you are almost dead but how strong are they(status)?
-Can i set waypoints?
-Information on the enemy what kind of ships i,m dealing with.
Because all of this i only fight aprrox with 40-50 ships other wise i can,t handle the battle in a way i want. Yes ofcourse i can alway,s pauze but what i mean is setting up some real nice tactics.
On the other hand the battles looks great and fun to follow.
Maby because the manual don,t tell you about this all i,m missisng some information.
Also the wapons statics like gound 25 doesn,t tell me what it realy means. Information i need to learn myself with alot of playing this game.

(in reply to ezz)
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RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/5/2009 4:33:57 PM   
Iceman

 

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quote:

This all resumes to a custom option called 'slow/fast research'


You can edit the Technology.xml file. Level 1 techs cost 16 RPs, Level 2 32, Level 3 64, etc. Editing this line:
<Balance Level1Cost="16" Power="2" />
lets you define research speed. You can edit the Level for each tech individually with:
<Option Area="I" Level="1" OldPoints="10" />


---

quote:

Combat UI mediocre because you can’t “rope” groups of ships


Not sure what "roping" means, but you can group ships any way you like. The Advisor explains how.

quote:

Good, not great - desperately needs one for revenue from treaties with AI empires


The *Charts* (that's what was mentioned) do have a Trade Revenue option.

quote:

Tech system is simplistic and desperately needs more techs, especially income-producing Structures


Disagree. There's enough money producing structures / bonuses as it is. Since the game revolves only around money, exagerating in this aspect is nothing but "boring".

(in reply to laika)
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RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/5/2009 4:38:35 PM   
PDiFolco

 

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Iceman,
"Roping" should be understood as "lassoing" the units. Not everyone here is a cowboy, and it's not "groping" them

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RE: Early feedback and pro/con - 12/5/2009 4:42:06 PM   
Iceman

 

Posts: 239
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Hehe, thanks. You mean by clicking and dragging? You can use other standard techniques like using the shift key. Not saying it's extremely friendly though, mind you.

(in reply to PDiFolco)
Post #: 19
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