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What Computer Language is used Most?

 
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What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/26/2009 6:07:10 PM   
Zemke_4


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I have wondered many years about this. There is much discussion of what computer coding language is the best on several web sites, or what compiler or software tools are used, but the discussion always seems to focus on the 3D games out there, which have taken over the market as we all know. Does any one know what language was used to create War in the Pacific, or is being used to create War in the East? Also, what about older war games like HPS Panzer Campaigns or Operational Art of War?

I am no programmer, but I was curious as to what or how games like these are really made, without giving away the farm of course. From most of my reading it seems C++ came up a lot. I suspect it is more than that, perhaps a combination of programing and graphic tools. I have also noticed that, for example WitP:AE really causes my computer to work hard, which I think means my little processor is doing lots of computations. What say you real game programmers out there at Matrix on these questions?

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/26/2009 6:13:52 PM   
killroyishere

 

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For me BASIC is still the computer language of choice since it's the only one I know.

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3. goto 1


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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/26/2009 8:41:28 PM   
Arjuna


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We use C++ for all game coding. We used Basic for a quick and dirty front end to our in-house Estab editor, but otherwise it's C++. The reason being that in 1995 when we started work on this project, it was the best out there for power and speed. Today you could try C#. It has inbuilt persistence ( ie you don't need to write your own database classes, like we had to, and it has inbuilt garbage collection. But it lacks multiple inheritance and we really use that.

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/26/2009 10:05:19 PM   
Lützow


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C++ is the mother of modern computer languages. Whoever considers programming should start here, as it gives you a basic understanding about coding and afterwards every language else becomes easy to learn.


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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 12:12:37 AM   
RobertCrandall


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Flashpoint Germany is in Delphi (object Pascal) by the company now called CodeGear.  It is awesome and I used it in my day job for 15 years or more too.  I know some of the other Matrix games are also done in Delphi but I'm not sure which now.

Flashpoint Middle East will also be in Delphi.  The third party components are outstanding and let you concentrate on making the game and less on reinventing the wheel.

Rob Crandall

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 12:46:08 AM   
Hertston


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

C++ is the mother of modern computer languages. Whoever considers programming should start here, as it gives you a basic understanding about coding and afterwards every language else becomes easy to learn.


IMHO Java is the better place to start, unless your only objective is PC game programming. It's more flexible, particularly in the vast range of platforms that will run your programs, and rather less cock-up prone.

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 1:21:52 AM   
Peter Fisla


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I use C++ and MFC...that's my weapon of choice.

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 1:26:27 AM   
Peter Fisla


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

C++ is the mother of modern computer languages. Whoever considers programming should start here, as it gives you a basic understanding about coding and afterwards every language else becomes easy to learn.


IMHO Java is the better place to start, unless your only objective is PC game programming. It's more flexible, particularly in the vast range of platforms that will run your programs, and rather less cock-up prone.


The problem with staring Java is that you are so far away from the OS level that you simply have no idea what's going on if something goes wrong. I don't believe that people should start with Java. At my work I have seen a 100MB of program (including VM of course) written in Java that all it does is ftp a file from one unix box to another. I mean talk about overkill...simply shell script in few lines of code would have taken care of it...or even say PERL. I believe people should start with either C or C++, use command line compiler/link and learn how to make MAKE files. Once that's understood yes Java is an option but the principles of programming and Objects should be thought with C++. My opinion only of course...

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 6:20:13 AM   
pepsi

 

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In robotics, it's pretty common to write a customized embedded Operating system, and as such, to have a specialized high-level languages designed to utilize the (typically limited) hardware best, and handle the requirements of the device. Ace's answers contains a good example of one of these specialized high-level languages. It's probably most common for robots actual functionality to be programmed in languages like Basic or C. It is not uncommon, due to the light-weight and time-critical constraints in robotics, to find that it is quite worthwhile to write Assembly code instead.
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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 6:58:52 AM   
yoshino


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I like C,C++ and Assembler
For starting,C language is best I think.

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 7:56:05 AM   
JudgeDredd


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I'm a Visual Basic fan...have been since 98. But then I don't program games, only database front ends.

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 11:53:37 AM   
milkweg


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Zeros and ones is all you need to know, all the rest are just interpreters and not programming. If you can't program in machine code then you are not a real programmer. <runs away>

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 11:54:46 AM   
milkweg


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OK, I will accept assembler but the rest are for pussies.

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 12:00:45 PM   
killroyishere

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: milkweg

Zeros and ones is all you need to know, all the rest are just interpreters and not programming. If you can't program in machine code then you are not a real programmer. <runs away>


I have the tar who has the feathers?

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 12:33:16 PM   
milkweg


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J/K of course/. I can't even program in Ruby. Started to teach myself assembler once and didn't get much past converting binary to hex and back. I have seen other programmers poo-poo people who only know C+ and no assembler though because C+ is not close enough to the "metal", as they say. I downloaded the free Ruby programming language and have it on a backup HDD still but never did much with that either. I'm not a fan of anything that uses numbers so that may be why, I prefer the romantic languages.

< Message edited by milkweg -- 11/27/2009 12:37:58 PM >

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 1:57:33 PM   
EUBanana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

C++ is the mother of modern computer languages. Whoever considers programming should start here, as it gives you a basic understanding about coding and afterwards every language else becomes easy to learn.


IMHO Java is the better place to start, unless your only objective is PC game programming. It's more flexible, particularly in the vast range of platforms that will run your programs, and rather less cock-up prone.


I do quite like Java but I fear it's becoming old news these days, replaced by C#.

Java/C# are certainly much easier than C++. The keywords are less abstruse, things generally are a lot more readable than some of the C++ hieroglyphs. They are generally cleaner, too.

But I think C++, even if you don't use it, is a very useful thing to have knowledge of. Everything flows from C++. If you can code C++, you can code anything.

Regarding 100 megabye simple Java programs - there is good Java, and there is crap Java, just like anything else.

< Message edited by EUBanana -- 11/27/2009 1:59:12 PM >


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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 2:53:27 PM   
Jevhaddah


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When I was Teaching programming at Uni it was all Pascal, C, C++ and... roll on da drums.. COBOL

For Games Dev I used Blitz Basic and Blitz 3D, by this time I was retired and programming was a hobby again. I have Dark basic Pro as well but the language is a bit to verbose for me... even worse than COBOL maybe.

Then all this Event driven Form filling voodoo appeared and I was totally lost

so now I hide in the corner and use Multimedia Fusion Dev 2...

Having said all this like JD most of my programming was boring business stuff back in the Stone age when a degree was required just to switch the computer (not pc ) on

Cheers

Jev

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 11/27/2009 3:08:38 PM   
milkweg


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I got credited in a campaign add-on mod to Fighting Steal for fixing a java error and I had never done any programming before in any language. The person who created the mod couldn't come up with a way to fix an error and when I looked in the java script file I saw what the fix was just from my knowledge of .bat files from my Dos days. He insisted on crediting me in the readme file for it so there I am. If even I can fix a java error then it must be fairly easy but I still don't have the motivation to learn it.

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/2/2009 8:19:27 AM   
rhias

 

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This question is too broad, and you would be getting many different answers from many different people from different parts of the world! This question also assumes that programming languages will not develop or evolve into different language as time fly. But to humor you, the most widely used programming AS OF NOW, is C and its derivatives like C++, C#, and Java.
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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/3/2009 4:51:02 AM   
ijontichy


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I expect C and its mutant offspring are used the most. These days Python and Ruby are getting quite popular. If I were doing a game then I would choose C, but I get the most enjoyment (and challenge) out of using Haskell, a functional language popular among academic types.

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/15/2009 9:36:19 AM   
Zemke_4


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The question is broad, and not very specific.  This will tell you I know NOTHING about programing other than a basic class in the 80s, but here goes.

The maps used in Tiller's Panzer Campaigns, is that done with C, or desendant of C, same question about War in the Pacific or Operational Art of War?

The hexes on the maps, is that an overlay or how is that done?

What is the easiest to program, a turn based game, a TCIP WEGO game, PBEM, PBEM with WEGO?  All this is leading to an idea I have, but I am wondering how hard it would be.

Next if games are made using C or C whatever.....are most games designed using a gamer who has the idea and can program, or is a programer hired to "bring to life" the ideas of the "developer" or "producer" or project manager or who ever the "big idea" guy happens to be.  (I am the guy who has the "Big Idea").

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/15/2009 10:45:46 AM   
mgarnett

 

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Hi Zemke_4

The maps used in the Tiller Panzer Campaign games are tile based. By that, I mean that each individual hex is a "tile" made up of one or more graphics images. There is no programming involved in creating these tiles or images, they are done with applications like Photoshop or PSP. If you have a PzC game, just look in the directory where you installed the game and you will see a folder called "Map" look inside there and you will see heaps of BMP file which you can open up in Paint and view.

The units are also just little square tiles.

Now, the engine that actually displays all these images and handles input and AI is written in a programming language. In the PzC games, I would gues it is written in Microsoft Visual C++ and MFC (just look inside the games directory and you will see DLL files in there with the letters MFC in the name. Now Visual C++ (or C++) is the programming language and MFC is an "add on" library of functions that the programmer can use to handle all those repetitive system tasks like displaying a save file dialog, open and close windows, minmise and maximise windows etc. If libraries such as MFC didn't exsist the programmer would have to write their own routines to handle these tasks.

IMHO, turn based wargames can be written in almost any language. Other languages that I have used which, IMHO, are easier to grasp than C++, are Delphi and C#. Delphi has an MFC "equivalent" called the VCL and C# has the .Net libraries. The VCL and .Net basically provide that toolbox of functions to help progrmmer easily implement repetative core windows tasks so that he/she can concentrate of writing the code that actually makes the game "work".

I mentioned the tiled hexes above, the programmer would write code that would actually "assemble" the maps depending on which scenario the user chose. In a very simple example, a game may store the scenario map configurations in a regular text file. In this example, a clear terrain hex may be numbered "1" and a forrest hex "2". So, if a map configuration file was "1,1,1,2,2,1,1" then programmer would create a function to read this text file and then drew the appropriate hexes on the screen. In this instance, the user would see three clear terrain hexes, followed by two forrest hexes and then two clear terrain hexes. You can see that you can create a two dimensional matrix for a map and then draw that onto the screen using the appropriate tile.

It gets a little more complicated than this, because you would have secondary and tertiary map features such a clear terrain hex with a house on it. For these types of situations, and following the simplified example, you could have one text file describing the primary terrain and then one describing the secondary terrain and then just draw the appropriate tile into the screen.

Don't get too caught up in what language you should use, a turn based wargame can be created in almost any language such as C++, C, Delphi, C#, BlitzMax, GLBasic, DarkBasic etc. Each would be suitable, however their syntax an learning differs markedly. Languages such as BlitzMax and GLBasic are also geared toward game making and come with ready made libraries of functions to handle graphics, mouse input, music etc.

My personal favourite is Delphi and games such as Guns of August (I think), Empires in Arms and the AGEOD games (BiA, WiA, Napoleons Campaigns and ACW) I think are also written in Delphi.

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/15/2009 12:24:24 PM   
Zemke_4


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Thanks Mgarnett for the information.

What about WEGO or TCIP games, or the addition of these fuctions, any different, or just more programing?

Last who is writing the game itself, a professional programer hired or a gamer who turns programer to see a vision created?

What is the time line, years to write the code for a war game.

< Message edited by Zemke_4 -- 12/15/2009 12:26:31 PM >


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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/15/2009 1:49:34 PM   
junk2drive


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Maybe you should look at an existing game engine and go from there. There are some threads at wargamer in the game research section like this one

http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=345727

For more, go to the main game research forum section and at the bottom, change the 30 day display to 365 days.

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/16/2009 12:36:32 AM   
mgarnett

 

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@Zemke_4

Wargames can be created either by gamers turned programmer of by "professional" teams. I am only hazarding a guess at this, but I would say that most of the games sold here on Matrix were created by groups of individuals who were avid war gamers and who have since turned programmers to see their dream realised. Games like Medieval Total War are in the realm of professional software development houses. Don't get me wrong, even the gamers turned programmers get paid so by definition they are professional but I think the general consensus is, they certainly don't do it for the money as I don't think this niche market of ours generates a huge cash flow.

The types of game you create, such as WEGO, IGO, TCIP, is really up to you as the programmer. Each has their own challenges and hurdles to overcome.

You basically come up with an idea, draw up a plan and start coding. If you struggle for ideas, like me, you could adapt a board war game to the computer.

The time line to write a game is dependant on the complexity of the game, your skill as a programmer and whether or not you have anybody else helping. Let me just say though, if you are a beginner, you will want to start very small in order to build up your skills. I started by writing a clone for Stratego but other use even simpler games.

It seems like you have an interest but don't know a great deal about programming. The first thing you will need to do, is do some research on programming in general and then have a look at the different languages that are available. Most have demos you can use to test out and then you can make a decision on which one to use. Have a look in the forums where you purchase your product, they are generally very helpful. Remember, ask for advise but in the end make your own decision. It doesn't matter if somebody else finds the language great, if you don't like it then you will quickly give up. Choose something that feels good to you. It is proven time and time agin, that a game can be good regardless of what it is written in. The language does not make the game.

A programming environment will generally come in the form of an IDE and compiler. The IDE (Integrated Development Environment) is a powerful text editor that allows you write your code and the compiler is what translates your written code into something your computer can understand. Languages such as C# and Delphi allow you to write code then compile it with a click of button (as do most other commercial products).

If you are looking for a more "traditional" programming environment I would look at something like C# (Microsoft have a free compiler and IDE for download) or Delphi (this one will set you back a few hundred dollars and is available fro Ebarcaderro (check spelling)). These applications are very powerful and will take some time to learn. There are free and commercial "add on" libraries available for each that add functionality to the language to make writing games easier. The Tin Soldiers games here on Matrix I think were created with C# and games such as Flashpoint Germany and Guns of August were created with Delphi (including the AGEOD games as well I think)

If you are looking for a more game oriented language then I would have a look at something like BlizMax, GLBasic or DarkBasic. All three are commercial products available for about $50 - $100 although DarkBasic does have a free version available.

You could also look at non-programming tools like Multimedia Fusion 2 by ClickTeam or Macromedia Director (not sure if it i still called Macromedia but you shouldn't have trouble finding it). These tools allow you to create games without code but they are a little more expensive ranging from about $300 up. The games Armageddon Empires and Solium Infernum were created with Director.

You could also look at using a game engine to create your game. There are heaps available such as GameCore ($500) , Unity3D (free Indie version), Visual3D.Net ($199), ShiVa ($149) and GameStudio ($199). These engines are 3D but can easily do 2D as well. With these engines, you could create something like Tin Soldiers or Combat Mission or really ayn type of game that you conceive (but it would also require a lot of dedication, time and skill).

Don't be under the misapprehension that the tool will write the game, you will need to invest a lot of your time to make something.

I think in the war game creation industry most are created by avid gamers who either learned programming at school/work or are self taught and want to see their ideas turn into reality (IMHO).

Cheers

Mark

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/16/2009 7:20:07 AM   
GoodGuy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mgarnett

You could also look at non-programming tools like Multimedia Fusion 2 by ClickTeam or Macromedia Director (not sure if it i still called Macromedia but you shouldn't have trouble finding it). These tools allow you to create games without code but they are a little more expensive ranging from about $300 up. The games Armageddon Empires and Solium Infernum were created with Director.


Well, not without code, but without having to learn more complex languages like C++ or Java. In theory, you could create counters (sprites) and maps for such a game with Photoshop or PaintShopPro, and create active objects you can click on to select and move them. But the creation of a sohpisticated rule set, let alone a decent AI, will take you a looooong time to flesh it out. Java-Script may be the way to go if you use Director (see below).

The language used in Director is Lingo, some ppl say it's not a real object-oriented programming language, maybe because early version scripts looked like HyperTalk, too, but it is an OOP language:

on exitframe
if rollover(5)=true then go to "flag1"
else go the frame
end

This kind of syntax makes it pretty easy to learn this language. Lingo supports the dot-syntax, too, which makes things shorter, plus it makes it easier for people who learned to use Java-script or C++ first. Lingo supports 3D-objects since version 8.5 and even supports the Havoc physics engine.
The interesting part in Lingo/Director is that you can use a timeline just like in Flash, which makes it easier to learn the basics, and the stage provides you with an excellent (pre)view, as it displays the result of your programming/arrangement of sprites/images right away, plus it will be compiled automatically if you click on preview.
When I learned some Lingo around some 6 yrs ago, it seemed to be relatively easy to create simple games, but I got the impression that the language was not powerful enough to create a good/sophisticated game.
But you can even include Java-Scripts now, which allows for short but "elegant" coding and for some additional functions which are not supported by Lingo.

I didn't like Lingo that much, but if I am looking back now, it was (and still is) way more newbie-friendly than Java-script, let alone C++. Still, wargames should be written in Java, C++ or Delphi, as their developer environments (+ libraries) are very helpful.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 12/16/2009 9:31:16 AM >


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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/16/2009 10:43:42 AM   
mgarnett

 

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Yep, points agreed about Director. With Multimedia Fusion 2 though, you can create games without writing one letter of code. You basically use a rules matrix to determine behaviours of objects etc. You can write plug in modules with code, but it is not a necessity. There is even a book written by a Multimedia Fusion 2 user called "Going to War" which is an entire book dedicated to writing a wargame in MF2.

I've never actually used Director, but have used all of the other engines/languages I mentioned at some point.

I would broaden my list of appropriate wargame languages to include literally all commonly known languages. In the hands of a determined user, any language could be used to create a great game (I'm not saying you could use COBOL, but you know what I mean).

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/16/2009 3:54:56 PM   
Saint Ruth

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke_4
...
What about WEGO or TCIP games, or the addition of these fuctions, any different, or just more programing?
..
What is the time line, years to write the code for a war game.

IGOUGO is more complicated than WEGO IMHO.
One must record all moves, all battles, then work out who moves where (when the moves comflict), how moves are effected by battles, retreats, eliminations, what enemy units can be seen and when they can be seen during the film etc etc etc (and a lot more etcs).

I am coding such a game at the moment in Java...it's more work than I thought...adding Fog Of War wasn't easy... ;)
How long? I'm doing it in my spare time and it's been a few years... eternity perhaps...

Depnding on the language TCIP shouldn't be a big deal IF it was written with TCIP play in mind. Tacking it onto a game that wasn't written in such a way would be nigh on impossible.

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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/16/2009 11:00:20 PM   
TonyE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RobertCrandall

Flashpoint Germany is in Delphi (object Pascal) by the company now called CodeGear.  It is awesome and I used it in my day job for 15 years or more too.  I know some of the other Matrix games are also done in Delphi but I'm not sure which now.

Flashpoint Middle East will also be in Delphi.  The third party components are outstanding and let you concentrate on making the game and less on reinventing the wheel.

Rob Crandall



Whoo hoo ; love my Delphi and use it everywhere I can for Harpoon Classic (though the core game is written in C).



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RE: What Computer Language is used Most? - 12/19/2009 9:09:54 AM   
theja

 

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I recommend using php/mysql for a web app. I guess java would be nice. I hear it's a lot like c++, but a little less confusing. I'm not very advanced in c++, but I understand the basics. It wouldn't take too long to get the "basics" of either language, but Java may be a little easier to get more out of it sooner. One of my professors also said something about regular expressions being pretty good in java. That's always a plus.
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chicago limo


(in reply to Zemke_4)
Post #: 30
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