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RE: Mar 7-8/43 Update

 
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RE: Mar 7-8/43 Update - 5/24/2012 7:38:59 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7208
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
Looks good in China. That is a daunting stack.

If you want to flank Kunming, and you have some free troops available that can be flown, you could paradrop Mengtze, then fly in reinforcements. Or walk up that way from the Hanoi area, but that would take a while.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 1231
Mar 9/43 Update - 5/27/2012 7:23:41 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2907
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
Mar. 9/43:

Sub Ops:

SS I-30 whiffs on DD Waller with six torpedoes near Luganville. Enemy ASW attack scores one near miss DC hit.

Burma:

Heavy Allied air attacks occur almost daily in Burma. Supply to keep the enemy air units operating at this pace doesn't seem to be a problem. I'm listing the AAR's for enemy air operations in Burma today to provide readers the numbers I'm facing and how they are being committed. I'm trying to understand how Bart is organizing his fighters. It appears that almost no raid is directly escorted because the altitudes are different. Can anyone confirm that the P-40K's appear to be CAP or LRCAP that is providing a quasi escort capacity to sweep and bomber raids. Any ideas on how best to counter this from people with a much greater understanding of the air model and what is happening than I do? What is happening when raids contain both sweeping and patroling components at different altitudes? Is this exploiting the air model to get an advantage somehow due to the close proximity of opposing bases? AAR's follow:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Meiktila , at 58,47

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 44 NM, estimated altitude 25,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 19
Hurricane IIb Trop x 16
P-40K Warhawk x 11 (is this LRCAP or CAP leaking into Meiktila?)

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x Martlet II sweeping at 22000 feet
16 x Hurricane IIb Trop patroling at 15000 feet

(What does patroling indicate? Are these escorts and if so, how can they coordinate at different altitude?)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Meiktila , at 58,47

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 25 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 29
P-40K Warhawk x 5 (Again, leaking LRCAP or CAP?)

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Hurricane IIb Trop patroling at 15000 feet
13 x Hurricane IIb Trop sweeping at 15000 feet

(Note here both Hurricane formations are at the same altitude. Are the sweeper's being escorted in this case?)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Meiktila , at 58,47

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 25,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 16
Hurricane IIc Trop x 15
P-40K Warhawk x 16

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Hurricane IIb Trop patroling at 15000 feet
15 x Hurricane IIc Trop sweeping at 20000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2nd RTA/C Division, at 58,47 (Meiktila)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 9
Hurricane IIb Trop x 16
Liberator II x 28
Wellington Ic x 7
B-24D Liberator x 35
B-25C Mitchell x 7
P-40K Warhawk x 5

Morning Air attack on 2nd RTA/C Division, at 58,47 (Meiktila)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 10
Hurricane IIb Trop x 16
Wellington Ic x 9
B-25C Mitchell x 8
P-40K Warhawk x 11

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 1 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Hurricane IIb Trop patroling at 15000 feet
10 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
9 x Wellington Ic bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
250 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Hurricane IIb Trop patroling at 15000 feet
16 x Liberator II bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x Liberator II bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x Wellington Ic bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
9 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Meiktila , at 58,47

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 16
P-40K Warhawk x 67

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Hurricane IIb Trop patroling at 15000 feet

This is the raid that consistently shoots down the majority of my fighters in the later stages of air combat in the previous two large air battles in Burma. Note only the Hurricane's have a patrol mission set. How are the P-40K's being committed and how come there are so many compared to previous strikes? Are they CAP, LRCAP, sweepers or escorts and how come no mission is indicated for them?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2nd RTA/C Division, at 58,47 (Meiktila)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 16
B-24D1 Liberator x 8
P-40K Warhawk x 16

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Hurricane IIb Trop patroling at 15000 feet
8 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 2nd RTA/C Division, at 58,47 (Meiktila)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
A-29A Hudson x 3
B-24D Liberator x 24
P-40K Warhawk x 21

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
24 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x A-29A Hudson bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Ichiki Det. , at 58,47 (Meiktila)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 9
B-25D1 Mitchell x 10
P-40K Warhawk x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
19 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Comments please. What is Bart doing that is so effective other than sheer numbers committed? I'm primarily interested in how the enemy fighters are being committed. If I can understand how, then perhaps I can counter them better.

China:

Chinese forces near Ankang are bombed in preparation for the ground assault and suffer 0(5) infantry and 0(4) non-combat squad losses totalling 61 casualties.

Most other bombing raids were grounded due to weather.

I tried one more bombardment attack on the "Other Horde" near Kunming. Results are mediocre so the bombardments will stop. It appears the Chinese are withdrawing further towards Kunming anyway and will not hold the crossroads.

The Shock Attack near Ankang fails to dislodge the defenders. I'm still in good shape though, so another Shock Attack is ordered for tomorrow. AAR follows:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 80,41 (near Ankang)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 11876 troops, 94 guns, 32 vehicles, Assault Value = 440

Defending force 5852 troops, 64 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 164

Japanese adjusted assault: 358

Allied adjusted defense: 217

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Allied ground losses:
441 casualties reported
Squads: 36 destroyed, 24 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 19 (18 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Assaulting units:
35th Division

Defending units:
33rd Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
1st War Area
2nd Group Army
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Chengtu (75,41)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 44429 troops, 433 guns, 890 vehicles, Assault Value = 2326

Defending force 5958 troops, 37 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 214

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1270

Allied adjusted defense: 35

Japanese assault odds: 36 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Chengtu !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
280 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled

Allied ground losses:
3310 casualties reported
Squads: 95 destroyed, 159 disabled
Non Combat: 35 destroyed, 37 disabled
Engineers: 21 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 45 (14 destroyed, 31 disabled)
Units retreated 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
63rd Division
20th Division
12th Tank Regiment
26th Division
23rd Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Division
27th Division
11th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
28th Chinese Corps

Chengtu falls easily, but what is discouraging is the trashing of the industry. Despite a small defending force, no engineers and no defensive fort levels the industry is hit hard. Manpower is 2(1), resources 58(122), HI 26(59) and LI 58(122). I've been hit rather hard at bases with production facilities I've captured all game, suffering heavy industrial damage. In some cases the industry is completely destroyed upon capture.

Next objective, Chungking!

Australia:

Betty's based at Koepang catch the enemy supply TF originally spotted near Carnarvon at Broome. Despite light rain conditions, the results are again disappointing by naval air strikes. Only one of two xAKL's is hit and sunk. The Betty's concentrated on the DD's unfortunately. At least 3 out of four transports were sunk from this small enemy TF in total though. I'm moving a small SCTF of a CL and DDx2 within range to try and finish it off day after tomorrow. I forgot to stand down the Betty's, so if they attack again tomorrow they will most likely encounter heavy Allied CAP and slaughtered. Dumb on my part to forget to stand them down and they are also due to withdraw in five days. I probably just threw a large number of experienced pilots away.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Broome at 62,127

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 28 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
xAK Autolycus, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Kortenaer
xAK Gorgon
DD Van Nes

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

Miscellaneous:

Japan:

Nagoya expands airfield to size 6
Manila expands fortifications to size 2
Long Island expands airfield to size 2

E Hashidate beginning refit in shipyard at Hiroshima/Kure
E Uji beginning refit in shipyard at Hiroshima/Kure
E Yurijima beginning refit in shipyard at Kobe

Allied:

xAK Autolycus is reported to have been sunk near Broome on Mar 09, 1943

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 5/28/2012 7:37:26 PM >


_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 1232
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 5/28/2012 10:10:02 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7208
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online
quote:

Chengtu falls easily, but what is discouraging is the trashing of the industry. Despite a small defending force, no engineers and no defensive fort levels the industry is hit hard. Manpower is 2(1), resources 58(122), HI 26(59) and LI 58(122). I've been hit rather hard at bases with production facilities I've captured all game, suffering heavy industrial damage. In some cases the industry is completely destroyed upon capture.


Do you have a no strat bombing HR for China? If not, it might not matter what state it's in as a few 4E raids will finish it off.

If you do have an HR for this, then you can build it back and use it for quite a while once you clear the rest of S China.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/28/2012 3:28:51 PM >

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 1233
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 5/28/2012 2:23:56 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 2621
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

Chengtu falls easily, but what is discouraging is the trashing of the industry


Most the the Industry in China starts trashed ...representing the war prior to 1941 ..

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1234
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 5/28/2012 3:58:58 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18217
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
Hi Sqzmylemon,

I can't quite figure out what Bart is doing with his fighters near Mykitlina either. My thoughts-in order of perceived likelihood:

1. The P40Ks are LRCAP directed to loiter over Mykitlina. Several squadrons are thus ordered, but not all fly on the same 'phase', resulting in 'lumpy' numbers over the city.

I don't know if there would be a stated mission associated with LRCAPing enemy aircraft, unlike the sweep notifications you're receiving from the Hurricanes.

2. The P40Ks may be "bleedover" from other hexes nearby. This is less likely, as my experience suggests that bleedover results in smaller numbers of aircraft over the target.

_____________________________


(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 1235
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 5/28/2012 3:59:43 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18217
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
Good going in China, Sqz...

It's fun to watch the 'nut' finally crack, no?

_____________________________


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 1236
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 5/28/2012 4:05:33 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18217
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
SqzMyLemon,

I've found the railroad into Tuyun (near Kweiyang) is an extremely useful shuttle of men and material into the area around Chungking. When combined with the (comparatively) good roads that are in the area, have you thought about this being your main axis of advance? Relying on an excellent road system seems to have some merit to subordinate alternative axes, IMO. Would this speed up your land movement through China at all?

_____________________________


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 1237
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 5/28/2012 6:21:10 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2907
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Do you have a no strat bombing HR for China? If not, it might not matter what state it's in as a few 4E raids will finish it off.

If you do have an HR for this, then you can build it back and use it for quite a while once you clear the rest of S China.


Hi obvert,

As far as I know, we do have a no strategic bombing HR for China. Until when, I don't know. I may not repair the HI though. I'm running into real problems with HI production in Manchuria and Korea. I'm getting a lot of missed production now due to lack of fuel. I think trying to get fuel to flow to Fusan is messing things up. I'm going to stop fuel extraction from Fusan in the short term and try to get things stabilized. I may resort to shipping fuel purely from Singapore. At least there won't be spoilage using this route.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1238
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 5/28/2012 6:47:03 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2907
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Good going in China, Sqz...

It's fun to watch the 'nut' finally crack, no?


Hi Chickenboy.

It has been a tough go in China, but I think the decision to fall back was premature. I think I'd still be grinding it out for bases like Kweiyang and Kienko had the Chinese not simply withdrawm from them leaving token resistance. However, I'll take it! My recent gains have caused minimal loss and my armies in China are practically still at full strength. More resources and supply for the Empire on the cheap.

As to your comments about the railway. All good points, but at this stage the majority of my troops are already forward and rapid troop movement isn't an issue. I'm sure the biggest benefit is the flow of supplies to forward units. What the railway also facilitates is the withdrawal of units bound for the Pacific. They rail from Tuyun to Kukong and then march along the primary roads to Hong Kong for deployment to the Pacific and Burma.

I totally agree with your point about using major roads to move supply and troops forward and to sustain combat operations on a high level. It appears the Chinese may abandon the crossroads east of Kunming which will allow me to flank south of Kunming much faster. It will be one less pure rough terrain hex side to cross, saving me upwards of two weeks movement.

Supply will be extremely important and if I can isolate Kunming from anything but air re-supply. I see no way that huge Chinese force will be supplied. I must hold Burma though until I finish off the Chinese. To that end, I'm risking everything on reinforcing Burma to buy me the time. I can rush divisions from Guadalcanal to counter any Allied attempt to get a lodgement in the DEI while I focus on Burma. Crushing the allied foothold in the Solomons should buy me even more time as the Allies continue to dawdle in the Central Pacific. A big push there would meet almost no resistance other than Japanese naval units.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 1239
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 5/28/2012 6:54:08 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2907
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi Sqzmylemon,

I can't quite figure out what Bart is doing with his fighters near Mykitlina either. My thoughts-in order of perceived likelihood:

1. The P40Ks are LRCAP directed to loiter over Mykitlina. Several squadrons are thus ordered, but not all fly on the same 'phase', resulting in 'lumpy' numbers over the city.

I don't know if there would be a stated mission associated with LRCAPing enemy aircraft, unlike the sweep notifications you're receiving from the Hurricanes.

2. The P40Ks may be "bleedover" from other hexes nearby. This is less likely, as my experience suggests that bleedover results in smaller numbers of aircraft over the target.


Thanks for this post. The large P-40K (67 aircraft) is the problem. The bleeders from LRCAP or CAP do suck up some passes meant for bombers, but this late sweep supplemented by massed LRCAP is the real killer of my fighter strength. I must figure out a way to deal with it. Perhaps I'll start sweeping Allied bases in an effort to draw bleeding CAP and destroy it piecemeal, as the Allies are doing to me. What is good for the goose and all that...

I'm hoping taking short term punishment in order to mass my Tojo's and Tony's will pay off. Let's see what happens to Allied air if I can get 150 Tojo's and Tony's into the fray all at once.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 1240
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 5/28/2012 7:13:38 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7208
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Do you have a no strat bombing HR for China? If not, it might not matter what state it's in as a few 4E raids will finish it off.

If you do have an HR for this, then you can build it back and use it for quite a while once you clear the rest of S China.


Hi obvert,

As far as I know, we do have a no strategic bombing HR for China. Until when, I don't know. I may not repair the HI though. I'm running into real problems with HI production in Manchuria and Korea. I'm getting a lot of missed production now due to lack of fuel. I think trying to get fuel to flow to Fusan is messing things up. I'm going to stop fuel extraction from Fusan in the short term and try to get things stabilized. I may resort to shipping fuel purely from Singapore. At least there won't be spoilage using this route.


Once I did stop taking it out of Fusan in mine things in Manchuria normalized. I'm still getting draw down to Hong Kong and Shanghai from Port Arthur though, which is a bit of going the wrong way down a one way street for me.

As for the Central Chinese HI, it should be run from the Lanchow and Sian fuel. This is what did it with a lot more industry there when it was in Allied hands. Mine in Changsha and Sian as well as the other Chinese cities are running just fine after being built up a bit.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 1241
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 5/28/2012 7:34:49 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2907
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Do you have a no strat bombing HR for China? If not, it might not matter what state it's in as a few 4E raids will finish it off.

If you do have an HR for this, then you can build it back and use it for quite a while once you clear the rest of S China.


Hi obvert,

As far as I know, we do have a no strategic bombing HR for China. Until when, I don't know. I may not repair the HI though. I'm running into real problems with HI production in Manchuria and Korea. I'm getting a lot of missed production now due to lack of fuel. I think trying to get fuel to flow to Fusan is messing things up. I'm going to stop fuel extraction from Fusan in the short term and try to get things stabilized. I may resort to shipping fuel purely from Singapore. At least there won't be spoilage using this route.


Once I did stop taking it out of Fusan in mine things in Manchuria normalized. I'm still getting draw down to Hong Kong and Shanghai from Port Arthur though, which is a bit of going the wrong way down a one way street for me.

As for the Central Chinese HI, it should be run from the Lanchow and Sian fuel. This is what did it with a lot more industry there when it was in Allied hands. Mine in Changsha and Sian as well as the other Chinese cities are running just fine after being built up a bit.


I'm hoping things will normalize too. I worry that if I repair the HI at Chengtu it will further strain things in the short term by drawing additional fuel away from bases needing it. I'll get the HI producing in Manchuria and Korea, then look at what I can do with Chengtu's HI potential. Anything extra right now is gravy in terms of production, but I want everything that should be operating at 100%, doing so. I'm also going to start a dedicated oil TF to Port Arthur to increase what's refined daily.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1242
Slow going - 6/4/2012 9:35:55 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2907
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
Turns have been slow of late. We've only completed two or three turns since the last update.

The highlights from the last couple of turns are few. Allied airpower is killing my ground forces at Meiktila and Japanese fighter strength has not recovered quickly enough to interdict these raids. I will start some sweeps with Oscar's in an effort to whittle down the Allied LRCAP that is causing havoc with my forces trying to interdict bombing raids. I get the Oscar IIb next month, and this will be huge. I can add a few Sentai's to the front once they convert from Nate's. I know it's not superior to the IIa, but it does allow me greater flexibility and improves the quality of my air force across the board.

In Burma, the 21st Division continues to march for Moulein and two infantry regiments are unloading at Rangoon. I think a Japanese offensive in Burma is called for in order to slow the Allied advance. I'm thinking I may commit a further three divisions here. I still have two divisions and two infantry regiments available to be bought out from Japan and China respectively, I just need the PP's.

The 2nd Division has withdrawn from Lunga to Rabaul and is available for redeployment. The 54th division is bound for Ponape. The 28th Division will garrison Lunga, Tassafaronga and Tulagi. That leaves the 16th and 48th Divisons yet to be redeployed. I'm withdrawing some air support units and an Air Division HQ from the Solomons as well. It's time to get the DEI sorted out for air defence.

I'm not sure the best use for KB at the moment. Do I keep it in the Central Pacific to face the next Allied thrust, use it to defend the Solomons, or slowly shift it towards the DEI to prevent any lodgement close enough for 4E's to target oil facilities. I have all my CVL's and CVE's already at Java.

My small SCTF operating off the north coast of Australia caught the small enemy supply TF near Port Hedland, and sank the lone remaining xAKL and one Dutch DD. One DD remains, which I hope to sink next turn.

The majority of my large tankers have now reached Singapore again and the revised merchant shipping effort to export more fuel/oil from the SRA has begun. More 8150 capacity tankers are becoming available and they are instrumental in getting bases like Miri, Brunei and Tarakan emptied quickly. I've also begun expanded resource exporting. I'll provide an actual detailed account of my merchant operations in a further update.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 1243
RE: Slow going - 6/4/2012 9:47:18 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7208
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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How is your LBA in the Java/Sumatra area now? Can you withstand a CV supported landing with just the LBA?

I would still think it's better to be near the Pacific, but from Truk you can get to the DEI fairly quickly at least.

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Post #: 1244
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/4/2012 9:57:03 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi Sqzmylemon,

I can't quite figure out what Bart is doing with his fighters near Mykitlina either. My thoughts-in order of perceived likelihood:

1. The P40Ks are LRCAP directed to loiter over Mykitlina. Several squadrons are thus ordered, but not all fly on the same 'phase', resulting in 'lumpy' numbers over the city.

I don't know if there would be a stated mission associated with LRCAPing enemy aircraft, unlike the sweep notifications you're receiving from the Hurricanes.

2. The P40Ks may be "bleedover" from other hexes nearby. This is less likely, as my experience suggests that bleedover results in smaller numbers of aircraft over the target.



I have trouble getting more than one Allied fighter to sweep at at time. The solution is to send one fighter in on a sweep and then put up the rest on LRCAP over the target. This works very well for me. Only problem is sometimes the LRCAP does not show up but that is rare.

Likewise, I never send escorts with my bombers but assign them to LRCAP over the target that the bombers are assigned to hit. This also works very well-it cuts escort losses. Gives you even odds vs enemy CAP, if not more kills, and serves very well to protect not only the attacking bombers but is still there to protect those follow up leakers that usually get slaughtered. Your opponent is probably doing this. Try it. It works well.

One note, it does not work too well in 2 day turn games.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 6/4/2012 9:59:04 PM >


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Post #: 1245
RE: Slow going - 6/4/2012 10:33:06 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

How is your LBA in the Java/Sumatra area now? Can you withstand a CV supported landing with just the LBA?


Don't ask. The short answer is...no.

I'll provide the actual dispositions when I have access to the game. My air dispositions are poor though. Ki-43 Ic's, Lily's and Kate's make up the majority of my available aircraft in Sumatra and Java. I do have one Zero and one Betty unit also available. I can increase the number of Army Sentai's once I upgrade to the IIb Oscar. I have a couple of Betty units to withdraw soon though, so a further weakening of my naval air capacity.

I do get the sunk CV Hiryu air components back in July though. That was pre-patch time and it's taken 1 1/2 years to reform these three units. Kind of ridiculous it was such a long delay before the game updates kicked in.

I don't know if it's a PDU off thing or just Japan's OOB, but I can only really mass enough air power in two theatres at a time. Burma has shown that even with a substantial commitment in strength, all it takes is one bad day to decimate Japanese air units. I had committed large numbers of aircraft to the Solomons, but with the quick capture of Lunga and the lack of Allied defence they were not needed. I'm currently shifting things around to provide the most effective coverage I can. I do not get substantial air group reinforcements until July, which is a long 3 1/2 months away.

The majority of my naval LBA is currently in the Solomons, with a few units around Java and Timor. Bart's style dictates that I'll need to hit him with large numbers to have any chance to be effective, unfortunately, that means I can only cover a few areas. If I guess wrong, he'll land easily before I can adjust my dispositions. Just look at how ineffective my Betty's were against his CV's when he first invaded Guadalcanal. I'll need 3 times the numbers to get in an effective counterblow. And if KB performs as badly again, well...

I just don't have enough good air units available en masse to make a decisive blow. I've mentioned this before, but I have a grand total of around 88 Tojo's and 80 Tony's for the entire Pacific. Hardly sufficient to counter the Allied Air Deathstar I'm facing in Burma, let alone anywhere else large numbers of enemy air units can be committed. I need to save the Zero's for naval air ops and not sacrifice them needlessly in air combat over Burma.

It's going to be interesting if I guess right and have strong LBA combined with KB in place for an Allied operation though.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 6/5/2012 5:09:17 PM >


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Post #: 1246
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/4/2012 11:04:53 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I have trouble getting more than one Allied fighter to sweep at at time. The solution is to send one fighter in on a sweep and then put up the rest on LRCAP over the target. This works very well for me. Only problem is sometimes the LRCAP does not show up but that is rare.

Likewise, I never send escorts with my bombers but assign them to LRCAP over the target that the bombers are assigned to hit. This also works very well-it cuts escort losses. Gives you even odds vs enemy CAP, if not more kills, and serves very well to protect not only the attacking bombers but is still there to protect those follow up leakers that usually get slaughtered. Your opponent is probably doing this. Try it. It works well.

One note, it does not work too well in 2 day turn games.


Thanks for posting crsutton. I appreciate the insight into the tactic, but unfortunately I don't want to emulate it, but counter it.

The Allied bombers don't need escorts and rather than risk assigning them, Bart's relying on LRCAP and sweeps. Being on the receiving end of it, I can't help thinking it's an exploit to use LRCAP to avoid the escort penalty and get a height advantage over my CAP, which is at low altitude in order to hit the bombers. That being said, if I was conducting bombing operations I'd most likely be doing the same thing.

Any ideas on how to counter? I'm thinking I must start using sweeps of my own to reduce the numbers against me on better terms.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 6/5/2012 5:10:38 PM >


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Post #: 1247
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/4/2012 11:37:25 PM   
obvert


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I hope you're training up some Oscar pilots in Low Nav! Looks like you might need to use everything that can carry a bomb when the invasions come in.

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Post #: 1248
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/5/2012 3:53:26 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I hope you're training up some Oscar pilots in Low Nav! Looks like you might need to use everything that can carry a bomb when the invasions come in.


No doubt!

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Post #: 1249
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/5/2012 11:21:14 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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Just a note on the slower pace of the game lately. Bart's let me know that he's just busy with Summer stuff and finding it a little harder to devote time to getting turns completed. I don't blame him and the slow pace of the game suits me fine. I can get caught up on other things. With that being said, and the lack of actual turn updates, I'll have time to provide any kind of game info requested and screenshots. The floor is open, just let me know what may be of interest.

I did get a turn today though, so we'll see if my Oscar sweep in Burma was a mistake or not. I probably shouldn't have ordered it and am fully prepared to face getting my ass handed to me.

The only other action I forsee is hopefully catching that last Dutch DD off the coast of Australia and sinking her.

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Post #: 1250
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/5/2012 11:44:06 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Just a note on the slower pace of the game lately. Bart's let me know that he's just busy with Summer stuff and finding it a little harder to devote time to getting turns completed. I don't blame him and the slow pace of the game suits me fine. I can get caught up on other things. With that being said, and the lack of actual turn updates, I'll have time to provide any kind of game info requested and screenshots. The floor is open, just let me know what may be of interest.

I did get a turn today though, so we'll see if my Oscar sweep in Burma was a mistake or not. I probably shouldn't have ordered it and am fully prepared to face getting my ass handed to me.

The only other action I forsee is hopefully catching that last Dutch DD off the coast of Australia and sinking her.



I'd appreciate a map of the Kwieyang-Chungking-Patun corridor in China again. Your take on what routes by which to cut off Chungking from the West road system would be useful information too.

I just captured Kweiyang in my game and am interested in your thoughts on breakthrough exploitation in China.

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RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/6/2012 5:35:06 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I'd appreciate a map of the Kwieyang-Chungking-Patun corridor in China again. Your take on what routes by which to cut off Chungking from the West road system would be useful information too.

I just captured Kweiyang in my game and am interested in your thoughts on breakthrough exploitation in China.


I'll make one up tonight for you.

Not being familiar with the capabilities in your game, is knocking China out a possibility? What do you hope to accomplish? I'm starting to see Chungking as a potential prison camp rather than try to capture it outright. If you take Chengtu, you force all spawning units to Chungking. If you can then close all the hex sides to Chungking and keep a strong enough sieging force in place, you've got yourself a fantastic way to bottle up all the Chinese reinforcements and respawns. Of course, if the Geni ever gets out of the bottle...well, it will get pretty ugly.

I think capturing Kweiyang, Kunming and Chengtu are crucial in defeating China, more so than pushing them east to west.

I'm no expert of course, but if you can give me an idea on what you want to do, I can offer my thoughts on what I've learned about fighting in China. I know if I could go back, I'd do things much differently.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 6/6/2012 7:17:20 PM >


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Post #: 1252
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/6/2012 5:49:23 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I did get a turn today though, so we'll see if my Oscar sweep in Burma was a mistake or not. I probably shouldn't have ordered it and am fully prepared to face getting my ass handed to me.


Ack, I really need to go with my gut more often. I'll update the last few turns later, but the sweeps in Burma were fine. Uncoordinated, but the height advantage was key. I lost seven Oscar's against downing about 12 P-40K's. I think I missed out on a great opportunity to decimate those LRCAP'ing Warhawks, if I'd commited the Tojo's instead. Unfortunately, I'm still in the process of replenishing them. However, the third Tojo Sentai will arrive by rail from Singapore in three days, then I'll have 80 Tojo's to play with in Burma.

As much as I like the results from my sweeps, I'm extremely disappointed that I was proven right. Oscar's at 25k got the dive and bounce bonus that my own CAP has been suffering against. It just clearly shows me height remains king of the air battle. Sure, I lost some fighters that were pulled down against lower altitude CAP, but otherwise I came out on top and even the undergunned Oscar with the height advantage downed more enemy fighters than I lost. The math works for me. Reduce the effects of the height advantage and I think the air model would be that much better. Right now, if you are higher, you win more than you lose...period.

Allied units have reached Meiktila and I'll probably lose it soon. Burma is going to get ugly, but I'm also going to hit back with everything I have. I'm looking to eventually counterattack and try to defeat the Allies in detail. Winning the air war will be key, and I have some ideas on how to chip away at the enemy. No more relying on CAP for me though. I'm targeting bleeding enemy CAP from now on with sweeps of my own. Then I'll be able to get to the bombers once enemy fighter strength is reduced to more managable numbers. It's the only counter I have available against enemy LRCAP providing cover for sweep and bomber attacks.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 6/6/2012 7:16:41 PM >


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Post #: 1253
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/6/2012 5:52:54 PM   
JocMeister

 

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I have actually NEVER gotten a coordinated sweep. Resorted to using LRCAP aswell. Tried 100s of sweeps using the editor with diffrent settings. Sweeps never coordinated.

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RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/6/2012 6:04:40 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I have actually NEVER gotten a coordinated sweep. Resorted to using LRCAP aswell. Tried 100s of sweeps using the editor with diffrent settings. Sweeps never coordinated.


In fact, I like the rest of you find that sweeps come in one group at a time fighting unitl 1) downed or damaged severly; 2) out of fuel / ammo 3) enemy supressed .. which means the first groups will fight a tough fight at say 16 vs. 50 ...

I am not having very good luck with LRCAP offensively however ... on a rare occasion I see action but mostly LRCAP seems to work only if the IJ are coming at me and my forces react .. I have yet to have my forces say interdict a fight I initiated ..

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RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/6/2012 6:13:12 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I am not having very good luck with LRCAP offensively however ... on a rare occasion I see action but mostly LRCAP seems to work only if the IJ are coming at me and my forces react .. I have yet to have my forces say interdict a fight I initiated ..


Bart's got it figured out. If you look at the combat reports I've posted on two large scale air battles over Burma, the Hurricanes are set to sweeps while the P-40's appear to all be LRCAP. They appear in some capacity in almost every strike, be it bombing or sweep missions. It does and has reacted to my CAP sent up to interdict his bombing raids, providing an escort function and eating up passes of my CAP before encountering the bombers. You can see where twice there have been extremely large P-40K formations that have accompanied a Hurricane sweep and simply decimated my fighters from being in a LRCAP role.

LRCAP does work and completely avoids the need to provide escorts. A huge loophole that is exploited in my opinion.

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Post #: 1256
RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/6/2012 6:15:08 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I am not having very good luck with LRCAP offensively however ... on a rare occasion I see action but mostly LRCAP seems to work only if the IJ are coming at me and my forces react .. I have yet to have my forces say interdict a fight I initiated ..


Bart's got it figured out. If you look at the combat reports I've posted on two large scale air battles over Burma, the Hurricanes are set to sweeps while the P-40's appear to all be LRCAP. They appear in some capacity in almost every strike, be it bombing or sweep missions. It does and has reacted to my CAP sent up to interdict his bombing raids, providing an escort function and eating up passes of my CAP before encountering the bombers. You can see where twice there have been extremely large P-40K formations that have accompanied a Hurricane sweep and simply decimated my fighters from being in a LRCAP role.

LRCAP does work and completely avoids the need to provide escorts. A huge loophole that is exploited in my opinion.

indeed, sounds like quite a mechanics exploit.

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RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/6/2012 6:31:11 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Yep, that doesn´t sound right at all. If this was the intention of the devs they wouldn´t have put the escort mission in the game.

Perhaps its time to bring this up with your oppoent?

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RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/6/2012 6:34:20 PM   
Historiker


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Well, there seems to be a way to counter it:
Sweep the base! You have the advantage of the sweeper while your shot down pilots have a higher chance of surviving than his. The only disadvantage is, that you need additional fighters as you can't use those that should protect the contested base. You also need an additional base, additional Av-Support...

But that's the way to counter it IMO.

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RE: Mar 9/43 Update - 6/6/2012 6:48:15 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2907
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Yep, that doesn´t sound right at all. If this was the intention of the devs they wouldn´t have put the escort mission in the game.

Perhaps its time to bring this up with your oppoent?


As long as I can counter, I'm ok with it. I'm not prepared to cry wolf on this issue. As much as I may complain about the air model, I'll do my best to act within it's limitations in a reasonable manner. I'll adapt, it's what I do best.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Well, there seems to be a way to counter it:
Sweep the base! You have the advantage of the sweeper while your shot down pilots have a higher chance of surviving than his. The only disadvantage is, that you need additional fighters as you can't use those that should protect the contested base. You also need an additional base, additional Av-Support...

But that's the way to counter it IMO.


I don''t think you can sweep your own base though. I remember PzB in his AAR mentioning this quite a bit. Unless something has changed in a patch, I don't believe it's possible to pick a friendly base as a target for a sweep. I will try next turn to confirm.

I do agree. Sweeps of my own may be the answer to the LRCAP problem. I chose Magwe (Allied controlled) to sweep and that drew off a fair number that are usually over Meiktila based from Shwebo. If Bart wants to rely on LRCAP, I'll make it as costly for him as possible. I'll post specifics on the latest air battles in Burma when I update.

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