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Is There An Editor?

 
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Is There An Editor? - 11/4/2009 2:22:42 PM   
mark24

 

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As per title...
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RE: Is There An Editor? - 11/4/2009 2:29:17 PM   
Terminus


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Yes.

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 11/4/2009 4:09:23 PM   
dogancan

 

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good

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 11/5/2009 7:49:50 PM   
Rolandnc

 

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I am hoping the editor allows me to change the initial German armor unit composition.    I would hope we could start with MKIIIJ rather than MKII.   THis would give the units the long 50mm Hitler ordered.    Also.... I had read many years ago...  in the late sixties... yes I was in highschool back then.... that German production did not go into full war production until mid war?   Anyone can confirm or def refute this?  WHy...  this could allow us through the editor to increase production and speed up new model introduction??

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 11/10/2009 12:36:25 AM   
freeboy

 

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Allowing us to use an editor certainly allows for some interesting what ifs... that R very much historically possible...
And these decisions would be affect force composition and supplies


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RE: Is There An Editor? - 11/16/2009 1:10:17 AM   
freeboy

 

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can we affect, in its current build, things like winter weather influence on troops ia behavior.. could we do a new map?

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 11/17/2009 9:27:48 AM   
Terminus


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No.

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 11/17/2009 11:44:24 PM   
freeboy

 

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one thing that a good mod will do is use the tools given and add value, a truely great editor would , ala tow, allow for new scenarios, new maps and user add ons that aactually increase the games value... my 2 cents worth

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 11/18/2009 12:46:27 AM   
Terminus


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You can still do plenty of stuff with the WitE editor, but not a new map. This is War in the East, after all...

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 11/25/2009 4:14:57 PM   
freeboy

 

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ok, so, we cannot add to the existing map? no new rr or roads or airbases or ports etc? a forest here r there? thanks again

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 1/11/2010 6:00:46 PM   
molchomor

 

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Changing some production settings would be great, and would be very welcome as can be seen from the production thread in the forum

Personally I really wouldn't touch the actual production figures, but would like to tweak the types produced so I don't have to get high blood pressure when looking at stupid factories still producing worthless stug3b and pz3/4 and god knows what junk in 1944 !

I guess we would have to scale production settings ourselves in the editor to mimick the WiR way, e.g. a factory set to producing 20 pz4/turn in '44 would translate in perhaps a realistic 10-15 panthers/turn...

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 1/11/2010 8:25:18 PM   
freeboy

 

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I doable I would like to creat some what ifs... keeping the historical imballances but adding some flavor
things look good here!

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 1/12/2010 12:21:38 AM   
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quote:

Personally I really wouldn't touch the actual production figures, but would like to tweak the types produced so I don't have to get high blood pressure when looking at stupid factories still producing worthless stug3b and pz3/4 and god knows what junk in 1944 !


Do you really want that? This a-historical revision be applied to any number of vehicle/plane production models on both sides and as well as adding, in your role as commander, the advantages of historical hindsight. It seems to me, that one should struggle with the hand one is dealt.

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 1/12/2010 5:49:30 PM   
molchomor

 

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Yes I would want that. This is a game after all and I want to play, not be played :)

As I tried to explain earlier it is not about cranking up production or only producing the best tanks/planes there are. That is to simplify. But the balance and strategy of how many cheap/quick to produce vs. expensive/slow units to produce is attractive to me. You will always need to produce some of those "inexpensive" units or otherwise you will not have enough hardware for all your divisions. One tank is better than no tank at all etc. But, you will never be able to beat the russians as axis on their own turf i.e. cranking out a massive amount of "cheap" tanks/planes. So, some thinking is required, and if it did not work out in one campaign maybe it will in the next with your 2.0 strategy :)




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RE: Is There An Editor? - 1/12/2010 6:27:36 PM   
jaw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: molchomor

Yes I would want that. This is a game after all and I want to play, not be played :)

As I tried to explain earlier it is not about cranking up production or only producing the best tanks/planes there are. That is to simplify. But the balance and strategy of how many cheap/quick to produce vs. expensive/slow units to produce is attractive to me. You will always need to produce some of those "inexpensive" units or otherwise you will not have enough hardware for all your divisions. One tank is better than no tank at all etc. But, you will never be able to beat the russians as axis on their own turf i.e. cranking out a massive amount of "cheap" tanks/planes. So, some thinking is required, and if it did not work out in one campaign maybe it will in the next with your 2.0 strategy :)







The production system in WitE works nothing like the one in WIR and if you attempt to change it like you describe you will probably trash it totally. It will be your game to do with as you like but you will expend a lot of effort and likely not get the result you desire.

BTW, the Stug-IIIb goes out of production in 1942; in 1944 the Germans are building Stug-IIIg with 75mm L48 gun that can shoot through practically any Russian tank and at cost 25% that of a Tiger. Sounds like a pretty good bargain to me.




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RE: Is There An Editor? - 1/24/2010 1:13:22 AM   
Silvanski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rolandnc
I had read many years ago that German production did not go into full war production until mid war?  


Correct. It was even more wacky than that... when Hitler saw that Barbarossa was going so well, production of equipment for the ground forces was scaled back in favor of the kriegsmarine and luftwaffe

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 3/9/2010 9:57:04 PM   
Naughteous Maximus


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Is it possible to get a picture(s) of the editor? Kind of give us an idea what to expect.

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 3/10/2010 7:46:01 AM   
aspqrz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rolandnc
Also.... I had read many years ago...  in the late sixties... yes I was in highschool back then.... that German production did not go into full war production until mid war?   Anyone can confirm or def refute this?  WHy...  this could allow us through the editor to increase production and speed up new model introduction??


Ah. Lies, damn lies and Albert Speer

Some aspects of German production did, indeed, not go into overdrive until late(ish) in the war and Speer tried to claim after the war that he had changed all this. Like most things most higher up Germans said after the war it's sorta true, but only if you don't examine the facts closely.

One of the issues was that the Nazis had invested a significant chunk of their industrial output in *expanding* their industrial output and those plans were not intended to come online till the mid 1940's ... so, when the war broke out, rather unexpectedly to Hitler (who though the wussy allies would roll over re Poland as they had re the Czech crisis ... the first of his really, really, bad miscalculations), they were faced with the problem of either keeping the chunk of industry already allocated to expansion programs *continuing* to do that, and being basically useless for current warfighting, or diverting it to instant gratification and losing a lot of the steam they'd gathered in completing those programs.

That was part of the issue.

Then there was the problem of munitions (explosives) and steel ... basically it took, if I remember correctly, around a year to ramp production up to meet projected demand and, worse, that required the diversion of steel from producing the things that needed the munitions, and, worse yet, the Germans had a shortage of good quality iron ore *and*, even worse still, the right sort of coal needed to convert it into steel anyway.

Lots more problems like that. Lots more lies and half truths from Speer.

A good, and readable, survey of the German economy from before the war to the very end is "Wages of Destruction" by Brian Tooze ... covers all the above and more.

Phil

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 3/10/2010 3:43:42 PM   
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Here is the opening screen of the Editor and it is constantly changing with input. It is fully functional and stable and it is what I use 99% of the time in scenario editing. You can also export the data files into a CSV spreadsheet for easy copying and pasting. Pavel has been real responsive in adding in suggested features. He recently added a copy, cut, and paste feature into the unit lists that made life so much easy. I'm testing out the a new AI scripting feature within the editor that will give the players the ability to give formations objectives similiar to TOAW and be able to fine tune individual units.

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 3/30/2010 10:55:25 PM   
FM WarB

 

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I am happy to see that an editor is included. Is altering TOEs part of the functionality? I understand why there is not a map editor, but can one add trenches, fortification, etc?

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 3/30/2010 11:20:55 PM   
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I believe that you can edit the OBs. Jim (jaw) is the one who handles that so he would be the best one to answer. I am in the process of building the 44 Campaign and I do it all from the editor here. You can change fortification levels and it has an AI script editor.

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 3/30/2010 11:59:39 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rolandnc

I am hoping the editor allows me to change the initial German armor unit composition.    I would hope we could start with MKIIIJ rather than MKII.   THis would give the units the long 50mm Hitler ordered.    Also.... I had read many years ago...  in the late sixties... yes I was in highschool back then.... that German production did not go into full war production until mid war?   Anyone can confirm or def refute this?  WHy...  this could allow us through the editor to increase production and speed up new model introduction??


You are correct...Albert Speer took over in 1942 (correct me if Im wrong)after an aircrash killed his Dr Todt his predecessor...thats really when Germany started to gear up its war production...Hitlers meddling in wanting many variations of different tanks\support guns didn't help either...as non standardized parts became a real problem. STill Tank production increased year on year after that...to little to late...lack of petrol was a killer aswell.

As someone says above I'm not sure it was Speers genius more Germany wasnt making use of its ability to produce early enough.

< Message edited by wodin -- 3/31/2010 12:01:48 AM >


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RE: Is There An Editor? - 3/31/2010 8:19:24 AM   
Banzan

 

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A. Speer had some direct influence, but not as big as he claimed. For example, the massive increased use of slave labourer was part of "his work" (something he denied in Nuernberg trial and his vice got hung for).
The change from manufactioring war materials to idustrial production of war material was kicking in (but not as Speers afford as already posted before), but he managed to build "circles of managers" to optimize production and moved prodution processes from political/military leaders into the hands of the economy managers. Only SS orders were still forced to be top priority.

For example: A factroy produce warmaterial 1 and gets orderd to refit to produce material 2. Jut after refiting and starting production, an SS direct order comes in demanding warmaterial 1. The factory had immediately to refit back to 1 and after completing the SS order refit to 2 again.

< Message edited by Banzan -- 3/31/2010 8:25:07 AM >

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 3/31/2010 1:22:24 PM   
Brad Hunter


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If you can get your hands on "Germany and the Second World War - Volume V/I - Organization and Mobilization of the German Shere of Power - Wartime Administration, Economy and Manpower Resources 1939-1941," (ISBN: 0198228872) it gives an excellent explanation of the issues concerning the German economy and manpower shortages up until Barbarossa.

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 3/31/2010 3:31:17 PM   
jaw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FM WarB

I am happy to see that an editor is included. Is altering TOEs part of the functionality? I understand why there is not a map editor, but can one add trenches, fortification, etc?


Assuming the editor that is in the alpha version is in the released version everything that's in the above menus including TOEs is editable. My question would be, except for the computer who do you plan playing this game against with an "unofficial" data base? I, for one, would never trust a data base that hasn't been thoroughly playtested and that will only be the one that comes with the game.


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RE: Is There An Editor? - 3/31/2010 8:27:19 PM   
FM WarB

 

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quote:

Assuming the editor that is in the alpha version is in the released version everything that's in the above menus including TOEs is editable. My question would be, except for the computer who do you plan playing this game against with an "unofficial" data base? I, for one, would never trust a data base that hasn't been thoroughly playtested and that will only be the one that comes with the game.


It may be possible that in a project so massive, a minor detail was missed here or there. I'm gladd such can be changed without having to wait for the official update.

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 3/31/2010 8:31:22 PM   
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I assume there will be some kind of database check for PBEM and I doubt anyone will want to play with someone who has messed with the official data.

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 4/1/2010 12:02:17 AM   
PyleDriver


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Jim (jaw) well put. Who wants to play a game in never never land?...On another page, please guys read all the posts, 95% of questions have been responded to already. We spend the time, please can you?...

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 4/8/2010 3:14:41 AM   
aspqrz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rolandnc

I am hoping the editor allows me to change the initial German armor unit composition.    I would hope we could start with MKIIIJ rather than MKII.   THis would give the units the long 50mm Hitler ordered.    Also.... I had read many years ago...  in the late sixties... yes I was in highschool back then.... that German production did not go into full war production until mid war?   Anyone can confirm or def refute this?  WHy...  this could allow us through the editor to increase production and speed up new model introduction??


You are correct...Albert Speer took over in 1942 (correct me if Im wrong)after an aircrash killed his Dr Todt his predecessor...thats really when Germany started to gear up its war production...Hitlers meddling in wanting many variations of different tanks\support guns didn't help either...as non standardized parts became a real problem. STill Tank production increased year on year after that...to little to late...lack of petrol was a killer aswell.

As someone says above I'm not sure it was Speers genius more Germany wasnt making use of its ability to produce early enough.


The "nonstandard parts" problem was not entirely, if at all, due to Hitler's meddling, it was directly related to Germany's overall industrial limitations and limits.

A lot of the vehicles that the Germans used were, in fact, captured ... both trucks and transport as well as armoured fighting vehicles ... and used "nonstandard" parts available in limited amounts from foreign factories with generally low resource allocation and unreliable (i.e. foreign) workers and management ... ISTR that there were over 100 different models of truck used by the German transport units supporting the Mechanized forces in Barbarossa ... just imagine the problem for the poor mechanics and the even more to be pitied supply quartermasters. 100 different carburettors to stock, 100 different gearboxes etc.

The situation wasn't all that much better with the German made vehicles, especially the AFVs, as Hitler was impressed only by numbers of finished vehicles in front of all else, so the factories concentrated on producing whole tanks rather than the spare parts needed to keep them operating. A lot of tanks were out of action at any given time (and this got worse as the war progressed, especially with designs like the Panther) because they had been cannibalised to keep others running, all because of this fixation with finished AFV numbers.

As for "full production" late in the war only, well, yes and no. Speer tried to make out as how he managed it when no-one else had tried but, as I mentioned elsewhere, this wasn't true ... it was because the Germans had industrial expansion plans that chewed up a chunk of their productive capacity in the process of expanding it and these programs (and the expanded capacity they produced) gradually came into service as the war progressed ... they were really long range plans that finally paid off.

As for the "yes" part, well, y'know that Hitler was a sexist pig? Banned women from higher Public Service jobs (Judges, Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers etc.) and basically banned them from University education ("Kinder, Kuche, Kirche") before the war? The same applied in factory work, the Germans were very very late to mobilise women for war work ... but they did to an extent that the Brits and US didn't in the end. By the end of the war a large chunk of AA units were manned by women (yes, I know, the UK did this as well, but in smaller numbers), factories were full of them, and, IIRC, something like 60% (overall) of all university students were women ... even in things like Medicine and Engineering they were present in huge numbers (IIRC, at least 40%)!

As for the fuel. Well, the Synthetic Oil plants plus Ploesti plus the small domestic fields in all the conquered countries *and* severe rationing kept things going ... but, despite what some sources suggest, the StrategiC Bombing Campaign *did* have a massive effect on the oil plants and refineries (synthetic and natural). They didn't (couldn't) destroy them ... they were too dispersed and the bombers not accurate enough ... but after the war the Allies found that the continual bombing and the concussion it created was enough to loosen a lot of seams and create general cumulative damage that resulted in increasing downtime and lost production hours/days because in the end even relatively far off near misses would rupture some weakened or hastily repaired part. Never shut them down, though, not entirely.

In any case, in 1944-45, the German armed forces oil reserves consisted only of what was actually in transit in rail (or road, or water) transport ... there *were* no real reserves ... and this was a huge drag on their operational and strategic planning. By January 1945 the whole economy was quickly shutting down because of lack of fuel (coal and POL) because what was being produced wasn't near enough (POL) or simply couldn't be transported to where it was needed because the rail lines were constantly being cut (the Strategic Bombing Survey noted that, IIRC, the average length of unbroken rail line travel possible in late 44/early 45 was around 20 miles. The Ruhr factories (the last major industrial complex they controlled) closed down for a couple of weeks over Christmas ... because there was no coal to run them, and damned little raw materials to let them make things ... even if they could have kept running!

Tooze's "Wages of Destruction" is worth a read, the USAAF Strategic Bombing Survey is available online (HyperWar? Probably several other places). Overy's "Why the Allies Won" and his work (forget the name) on the Strategic Bombing Campaign are also a good read, he's an excellent writer as well as a good historian ... all those will give you a better idea of the economic hole Germany and Italy were in!

Phil

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RE: Is There An Editor? - 4/8/2010 7:06:41 PM   
Capt Cliff


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Excellant narative Phil, excellant!  

Dove tails with a lot of things I have read and why German industry was so lathargetic. No so much lathargetic as having a lunney toon at the controls, mmeaning Adolph!

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