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Saved Game File - data - 11/3/2009 6:29:07 PM

wesy

Posts: 99
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Redwood City, CA
Status: offline

I love the game, I appologize if this has been asked before...but is there a way to export data from the saved game files - it would be great to get a summary of all action etc.

Post #: 1

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/3/2009 6:58:57 PM

_Stele

Posts: 50
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline

I don't believe there's a way to export them from a saved file. I've been doing it manually each turn by typing it in excel; a little time consuming, but it helps me keep track of things over a period of time.

I requested such a feature in the "suggestions for future patches" subforum, so hopefully something comes of it in the future.

(in reply to wesy)

Post #: 2

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/3/2009 8:48:42 PM

wesy

Posts: 99
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Redwood City, CA
Status: offline

wow...that's painful!

(in reply to _Stele)

Post #: 3

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/4/2009 12:40:00 AM

kaybayray

Posts: 278
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline

I use Pencil and Notbooks and record Daily Strike and Fighter Sweep builds. Notate Recon and Raid results for future missions. Separated by Theatre.

Wish I could extract the spreadsheets for all the different lists. But I dont drill down that deep. You could keep Screenshots and just keep turning them over as you move on I guess. I do agree this is a pretty data intensive game and it would be nice to be able to build spreadsheets from game files.

Later,
KayBay

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to wesy)

Post #: 4

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/4/2009 7:59:59 AM

TechSgt

Posts: 269
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

KayBay;

In the old TOH, I used paper, pencil, and eraser -- daily!

In the NEW BtR, I been trying to use the windowed version with a notepad open also. I've been using the notepad to type items of note that I can compare against the action report during the Debriefing Phase. This has worked out OK. By clicking on the notepad it also pauses the game -- saves wear and tear on the "S" & "C" keys. The drawback has been if the information I want is in a message or mouse flyover display. At turn end, I save the file titled with the game date.

Mission planning is now on a Word document, one page for Britian, one page for Italy. I keep more detailed information than the mission review display. I also add directly to this the reported/reconned damage, flak intel, etc. It too is saved titled with the game date.

I tried to keep the OOB as an open excel sheet, but in truth I find shuffling two sided printouts to be easier. During the game month I just pencil in changes. I update the Excel OOB's at the beginning of each game month with the aircraft changes, experience points, & the units due to arrive during the month. I also make a check for units that have been withdrawn and might make new unit groupings if necessary.

Print a new copy of the OOB, then fire up the game.

Hmm... I see a new thread in the strategy section. Allied Data Management Methods?

(in reply to kaybayray)

Post #: 5

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/4/2009 9:41:06 AM

wesy

Posts: 99
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Redwood City, CA
Status: offline

the game should ship with BI features and a "dashboard" for all the key performance indicators!

(in reply to TechSgt)

Post #: 6

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/4/2009 10:38:17 AM

harley

Posts: 1342
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline

wesy - yes, we should have used a data wharehouse on a solaris M5000 series system, except I'm a dyed-in-the-wool microsoft insfrastructure guy, so MSSQL would have been easier for me. But, we'd make it the first game to ship with a complete server back-end.

It would make the digital fulfillment edition somewhat more difficult.

_____________________________

gigiddy gigiddy gig-i-ddy

(in reply to wesy)

Post #: 7

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/4/2009 5:28:21 PM

wesy

Posts: 99
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Redwood City, CA
Status: offline

That's great to hear Harley. I'm a MSFT employee :)

(in reply to harley)

Post #: 8

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/5/2009 6:35:46 AM

TechSgt

Posts: 269
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

Mr. H;

Couldn't the game open a .TXT file, titled "game date", and dump the after action report during the Breifing phase?

It is a long time since I programmed, and I'm not certain how the report is generated, but...

TS

(in reply to harley)

Post #: 9

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/5/2009 7:22:14 PM

kaybayray

Posts: 278
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline

Hey TechSgt

<S>

Yeah I tried the windowed mode but not all of the perimeter of the screen shows. I cant get to the "Quit" button on the bottom right corner.

I havnt got to the point of actually managing all the Groups and Squadrons yet. I am basicially doing Strike Management. I recon potential targets and track the repairs after I strike them. I document each strike and record Squadrons roles in the strike. I try to track Kills and Damaged AC withing Strike and Group. I mentally follow the Morale and Experience of squadrons. I just dont have the time to do all that and play the game. Still on the learning curve. Once I feel more comfortable with my overall understanding of all that is going on I could look at that. I should probably play the BOB portion. I think that is much smaller and perhaps more managable than the BTR portion.

With the new edition I am going to try to use Excel and Word a lot more. I think I can do much better with what I am familliar with now that I fell a bit more comfortable with the Strike Management areas. For the most part I am trying to learn what works and what doesnt as it applys to the game. But for me this is OK.

Later,
KayBay

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to TechSgt)

Post #: 10

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/6/2009 7:05:58 AM

TechSgt

Posts: 269
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kaybayray

...

For the most part I am trying to learn what works and what doesnt as it applys to the game. But for me this is OK.

Later,
KayBay

KayBay;

When you figure it out... be sure to let me know, too!

(in reply to kaybayray)

Post #: 11

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/6/2009 7:58:04 PM

kaybayray

Posts: 278
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline

TechSgt, <S>

I think all you guys are way ahead of me. I mean I read all that you do in the game and then I look at me playing it.... Like I have said in a few other posts, makes me feel like I am the Kid drooling over in the corner.

But I do find that keeping records of what I do and what results helps me learn. I also kind of get some enjoyment from the History aspect of doing this. But there is so much going on it is kind of hard to get down to the level of being able to keep track of individual Groups or Squadrons as many of you do. Recall I only have like 3 functioning brain cells so its hard for me to keep up.

Later,
KayBay

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to TechSgt)

Post #: 12

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/7/2009 12:22:18 AM

Golden Bear

Posts: 166
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

Funny what you keep track of. I keep track of when a BG/FG/FS has made a raid so I'll know when it'll be effective again. Recon? I do it and keep track of my effects but not thorougly. Damage is secondary to chopping down enemy a/c so I'm happy to chip away rather than go for the big kill. Basically (following historical example) bombers are LW bait and destructive effects come second.

That said, I am agitating for a column in the Add Bombers/Add Fighters screens that show no. of days since last action. That will be useful.

C.

(in reply to kaybayray)

Post #: 13

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/7/2009 3:57:55 AM

kaybayray

Posts: 278
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline

Hey Golden Bear <S>

I just watch the Morale. I will not fly a Squadron with a Morale < 50%. I have noted that doing so leads to not finding the target, higher than normal losses and further reduced Morale and Fatigue. I would rather Stand Down and allow for some R&R and wait to get better results.

And yes, I dont go for the big kill either. I try to concentrate on targets in relatively close proximity to each other and pound the tar out of just a couple. I find spreading myself out induces high losses, which I dont like.

Later,
KayBay

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to Golden Bear)

Post #: 14

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/7/2009 5:01:24 AM

TechSgt

Posts: 269
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kaybayray

Hey Golden Bear <S>

I just watch the Morale. I will not fly a Squadron with a Morale < 50%. I have noted that doing so leads to not finding the target, higher than normal losses and further reduced Morale and Fatigue. I would rather Stand Down and allow for some R&R and wait to get better results.

...

Later,
KayBay

KayBay;
Be careful with just using morale.
1) I found that units with "great" commanders seem to pass your morale test -- always. Therefore they fly daily.
Flying daily is a good way to lose that "great" commander quickly.
2) There is something about the number of missions and experience points.
A mediocre unit could use the more missions to improve experience.
3) A unit with a "bad" commander can have bad morale and only occasionally fly.
How do you relieve a "bad" commander in BtR.? Give him to the enemy.

4) Flying "successful" missions seems to raise morale, too.

TS

(in reply to kaybayray)

Post #: 15

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/7/2009 5:16:53 AM

TechSgt

Posts: 269
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Golden Bear

Funny what you keep track of. I keep track of when a BG/FG/FS has made a raid so I'll know when it'll be effective again. Recon? I do it and keep track of my effects but not thorougly. Damage is secondary to chopping down enemy a/c so I'm happy to chip away rather than go for the big kill. Basically (following historical example) bombers are LW bait and destructive effects come second.

That said, I am agitating for a column in the Add Bombers/Add Fighters screens that show no. of days since last action. That will be useful.

C.

Golden Bear;
That sounds like an excellent operational strategy!

In an off-handed way I track "days since last action", too. Never thought of asking for a column, either.

Hey, H & HS,
How 'bout a "number-of-days-since-last-action" column?

TS

BTW: I think the "Off Topic Police" might be lurking!

I think I'll go start a thread in the strategy section.

(in reply to Golden Bear)

Post #: 16

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/7/2009 8:06:08 AM

harley

Posts: 1342
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TechSgt

Hey, H & HS,
How 'bout a "number-of-days-since-last-action" column?

I was thinking of that, as I want the AI to move forward units that aren't fighting, and that was a key metric. That the player could also use it can't be a bad thing

_____________________________

gigiddy gigiddy gig-i-ddy

(in reply to TechSgt)

Post #: 17

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/7/2009 5:01:26 PM

Tuk

Posts: 45
Joined: 10/20/2009
Status: online

Having so far only played LW in Eagle Day, as well as checking for morale, I go through all units in briefing phase and check for fatigue, grading for completely fresh, rested (0-3 fat) usable with caution (4-8 fat) and usable only on short missions and in exceptional circumstances (7-10 fat), also noting new pilots. I don't fly anything over 10 fatigue, not that I have enough experience to know if this is a valid approach. Yes, it's a lot of clicking, too much clicking.

The trouble with the "number of days since last action" column is that it will not alert you to the number of new pilots which frequently appear with 15-17 "fatigue".

One thing I notice though is that units that for one reason or another gain more than their organisational establishment of pilots or have more pilots than planes, will fly the same pilots over and again while the others never fly or transfer out at all. Further, recce units only fly one plane a day, even from a staffel of 12, and again, it's the same pilot flying every mission. Can be fixed?

(in reply to harley)

Post #: 18

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/7/2009 5:14:48 PM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 19349
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: online

I would go a little higher with the Fat level, the pilots are going to get tired, they suppost to, as long as it is massive amounts, they should still do okay

some units, will have more pilots, either more pilots were known, more pilots got lost, so more pilots were known (where it can be a pain, say JG 134 is due to get 5 real pilots on day 5, on day 3, they lose 10 pilots, the AI will try and give them the 10 pilots they need, and the next day, the real pilots will show up)

most times, the AI will pick/assign, the best pilots, highest rank, highest exp first, so if only a few planes fly, the best pilots will fly a lot

for the recon, if only one guy is flying, are you only flying one mission ?

_____________________________

(in reply to Tuk)

Post #: 19

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/7/2009 11:36:15 PM

Tuk

Posts: 45
Joined: 10/20/2009
Status: online

Thanks, I'll try pushing the fat a bit, though I did notice an increase in crashes which seemed to coincide with higher fat levels.

for the recon, if only one guy is flying, are you only flying one mission ?

Yes. Is there a way to fly more than one a day?

(in reply to Hard Sarge)

Post #: 20

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/9/2009 3:48:21 AM

TechSgt

Posts: 269
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I would go a little higher with the Fat level, the pilots are going to get tired, they suppost to, as long as it is massive amounts, they should still do okay

some units, will have more pilots, either more pilots were known, more pilots got lost, so more pilots were known (where it can be a pain, say JG 134 is due to get 5 real pilots on day 5, on day 3, they lose 10 pilots, the AI will try and give them the 10 pilots they need, and the next day, the real pilots will show up)

most times, the AI will pick/assign, the best pilots, highest rank, highest exp first, so if only a few planes fly, the best pilots will fly a lot

for the recon, if only one guy is flying, are you only flying one mission ?

HS;

Now we a seeing a problem with why commanders and high experience pilots get lost. I remember this being a problem in TOH.

In TOH!!! I was using the detach exploit to double fill a unit -- the idea was to see if you could increase operations with "fresh" pilots -- but just over half of the pilots seem to get to fly. I later gave this up!

But, late in the war as WIA's begin returning to units, there is an excess of pilots which potentionally grounds what could be "good experienced" pilots.

No! I don't have a good suggestion, only some half-thought out ideas. For the moment!

TS

(in reply to Hard Sarge)

Post #: 21

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/9/2009 3:52:55 AM

TechSgt

Posts: 269
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuk

Thanks, I'll try pushing the fat a bit, though I did notice an increase in crashes which seemed to coincide with higher fat levels.

for the recon, if only one guy is flying, are you only flying one mission ?

Yes. Is there a way to fly more than one a day?

Tuk;

I'm not certain if I'm falling of a joke...

Recon units will have 12 a/c ready maximum. You can assign up to 12 missions per day to individual units. The game will take care of the crew/plane selection.

BTW: Higher fatigue will result in more crashes.

TS

(in reply to Tuk)

Post #: 22

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/9/2009 3:09:04 PM

Tuk

Posts: 45
Joined: 10/20/2009
Status: online

I'm not certain if I'm falling of a joke...

Uh? No joke. I just see a reduction of one unit from the 'ready' list and the formation changes colour in the list, like it was 'used'. Not sure if I ever tried clicking again, maybe I assumed another click would de-select. I'll have to check that.

(in reply to TechSgt)

Post #: 23

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/9/2009 4:39:55 PM

JapLance

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/30/2002
From: Mallorca, Spain
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuk

I'm not certain if I'm falling of a joke...

Uh? No joke. I just see a reduction of one unit from the 'ready' list and the formation changes colour in the list, like it was 'used'. Not sure if I ever tried clicking again, maybe I assumed another click would de-select. I'll have to check that.

Clicking a second time will deselect the plane you just selected. You have to create another recon mission, and then you can select the same unit as before (as long as there are available planes).

_____________________________

Greetings from Spain.

(in reply to Tuk)

Post #: 24

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/9/2009 9:28:03 PM

Golden Bear

Posts: 166
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

Well, HS is the master of this game and if he likes to fly with fatigued units then it must be OK... but...

This is one of the tradeoffs that make the game interesting and make me want to find ways to make it more accessible.
I plot the morale of all my heavy units each turn. Really, really dull. But from it I can say that a unit will have recovered from fatigue the third day after a raid generally (two days rest). However, morale is not fully recovered. Anyway, when I am really pushing on the LW, I will fly them every third day or possibly even on second for a short period, and will fly escorts every 2nd day as long as their morale holds up. But the performance of fatigued units even with low morale is not close to as good as for rested units.

Thus, I try to fly BGs every FOURTH day with the expectation of somewhat better bombing performance, and try to put up about a third of my units a day. Yeah, the math doesn't work out but the weather usually forces a day off somewhere in there - or I fly a light day. The LW AI will put up the same number of interceptors more or less, no matter how many big raids I put out for them to respond to. Thus for shooting down the LW more raids doesn't mean much but it is of course good for getting SB up. I don't cut back on escorts and try to always be excessive with them since I don't want to miss a chance at a target if one is going to show up. Escorts can definityly fly every third day and for short periods on second.

That long blather is my way of saying that I do it differently from Sarge somewhat in the FAT realm. I like rested units. Of course on the first day after a bad weather spell I'll throw a lot more raids out.

Which comes back to why I think that "Days Since Last Raid" (DSLR) would be a better column for the Allied player to use than "FAT."

First FAT: If you look in your units, as Sarge points out, you will see different numbers of pilots. In some units they far outnumber the number of flying pilots. So what FAT value would I want? Average? No, that won't work at all. Max? No, when some newbs are in the unit they'll thrown it way off. [note: I won't delay the flying rotation of a unit for fatigued newbs] Mode (most common value)? This has promise but doesn't really add all that much for me.

If DSLR is added, now I have EXP, MOR, and DSLR all on screen at once. I can immediately sort all the units with the most rest right to the top for selection. Having done that I can look at the MOR and if it is low, then perhaps look more closely into that single unit. Low MOR units to get a soft ride while I beat up my other formations and need to fly just as often. For about 95% of what I use for mission planning I could now get by without the need for keeping separate paper track of things! I can throw away three of my five tracking sheets and just do it off of the game information. I'm drooling on myself right now, I want this soooo bad!

BTW, the other two sheets are: Day by day record of seven fields from Campaign Summary. Not really necessary but easy to keep and I like to see day to day progress in SB, TB and losses. The other sheet is location of NF airfields. I just keep listing them and put an X in a box on a night when I see them launch so I'll know where to target next turn. When the time comes I also track AFs with jets and 152s so that they can get "special" attention.

Anyway, it sounds like Harley is thinking about giving us DSLR (Escorts too, please!!) for which I will put a big Thank You into escrow for him to cash when it comes out.

Carlos

(in reply to JapLance)

Post #: 25

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/10/2009 2:04:47 AM

kaybayray

Posts: 278
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline

Hey Guys <S>

Some very good points here. You all bring up many great things to look at that will greatly enhance play. I am going to look deeper into these and work them into my Strategy. Sounds very promising to me.

Great Insight !!

Later,
KayBay

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to Golden Bear)

Post #: 26

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/10/2009 9:23:09 AM

TechSgt

Posts: 269
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

Bear;

Great thesis! I'm going to steal some of this.

I track the same basic data. I've gotten it down to two sheets, (actually one double sided), one for Italy and one for Britian. I don't follow the night fighter airfields as closely, and I write some of the campaign information in the bottom margins at the end of the turn.

In truth, using the windowed version of BtR, I'm experimenting with putting the data in an Excel or Word document.
A large high resolution monitor is a plus.

TS

(in reply to Golden Bear)

Post #: 27

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/10/2009 11:38:56 AM

Tuk

Posts: 45
Joined: 10/20/2009
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: JapLance

Clicking a second time will deselect the plane you just selected. You have to create another recon mission, and then you can select the same unit as before (as long as there are available planes).

Oh yes! I shall never want for intel again! Thanks all.

Regarding fat, I go back to the common appearance of new pilots in a group. This would pass under the radar of a 'days since last flight column' but surely anyone wanting to avoid flying overly fatigued pilots would not want to fly such a unit. Perhaps if there were alterable game settings this could be overcome. You could flag in a different colour, any unit fatigued over a limit of your choice. You could determine degree of fatigue and number of pilots suffering that changes the units listing colour?

That said, having just turned my hand to BtR I can see that the LW doesn't have the same choices, probably the RAF too, in ED. I regularly fly intercept missions with fat of 30+. I also notice that interceptors lose fatigue differently. Even units far inland, nowhere near enemy raids and not flying missions, don't lose fat until you change their airfield. Any explanation?

(in reply to JapLance)

Post #: 28

RE: Saved Game File - data - 11/10/2009 2:54:20 PM

Golden Bear

Posts: 166
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuk

Regarding fat, I go back to the common appearance of new pilots in a group. This would pass under the radar of a 'days since last flight column' but surely anyone wanting to avoid flying overly fatigued pilots would not want to fly such a unit. Perhaps if there were alterable game settings this could be overcome. You could flag in a different colour, any unit fatigued over a limit of your choice. You could determine degree of fatigue and number of pilots suffering that changes the units listing colour?

As I said, I won't stop a unit from flying on schedule because of these newbs. They are a minor issue in the entire thing.

Part of the reason that I suggest DSLM is that it should be relatively easier to implement than some FAT based thing.

As a second new field, since I am fantasizing, MORALE should be modified so that it looks like "67(+4)" or "59(-2)" along with the addition of DSLM. This will help you spot a disaster so that you can flag it for attention.

Carl

(in reply to Tuk)

Post #: 29