Matrix Games Forums

Recruiting Privates for Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941!Ageod takes you back to the Civil War Battle Academy iPad and PC 50 per cent off!Close Combat Last Stand Arnhem v5.60.53 update Allied Corps Walkthrough playlist and AARConflict of Heroes: Ghost Divisions Released!Pandora Beta Playthrough VideosGermany at War: Barbarossa 1941 Announced!Great Battles Medieval coming to your tablet with a 50 per cent off launch sale!Matrix Games / Slitherine / AGEOD are recruiting AGAIN!		 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

counters or sprites?why?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> counters or sprites?why? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 3:23:26 AM   
bairdlander

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 3/28/2009
Status: offline 		Counters or sprites?I prefer counters,reminds me of oldschool board/wargames.
Post #: 1
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 3:32:10 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 2518
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Mee too. I think a lot of people stay away from this topic because they think you might be a spambot ?

_____________________________

"Games lubricate the body and the mind" Ben Franklin.

(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 2
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:10:41 AM   
killroyishere

 

Posts: 639
Joined: 4/23/2008
Status: offline 		I prefer sprites as I like that minature game feel. Counters are boring to me. I also like isometric sprites as opposed to 2D flat ones something I wished SPW@W had of gotten upgraded to by this time.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 3
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:33:31 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1590
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		To me it depends....JTCS I love the 3D sprites, but when it comes other games I like Counters better.Mostly because counters are alot more straight forward and easier to read, and convey more information at a glance.

_____________________________


Art by rogueusmc.

(in reply to killroyishere)
Post #: 4
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:36:47 AM   
bairdlander

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 3/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

they think you might be a spambot ?

lol

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 5
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 2:52:50 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22786
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		I think it depends on the game, some games feel better, with sprites, while others feel best with counters

(IE, Panzer General, wouldn't of been the same with Counters)

_____________________________


(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 6
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 3:59:47 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1291
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		I prefer sprites ONLY if they are able to show blood and little body parts flying all over the place. Counters otherwise.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 7
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:00:50 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8341
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I'm with HS - depends on the game.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 8
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:03:24 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		This may sound odd coming from me, being so closely associated with ACW games that employ sprites, but, for most purposes, I'd just as soon have a 2D map and symbols.

Sprite and/or 3D art is expensive and drives the cost of developing a game WAY up, so much so, that it's hard to justify the largely unrecoverable expense that a developer incurs when it builds what our readers refer to as a "wargame."

I'd also note that there's something of a myth out there, and it goes something like, "wow, if the developers would just do this in 3D, it'd be a hit!" In the overwhelming majority of cases, I simply don't believe that's true of this little niche of the gaming world that we inhabit.

As always, I'm not celebrating the above realities. It's just the practical side of me, the pragmatist.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)


_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 9
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:22:02 PM   
killroyishere

 

Posts: 639
Joined: 4/23/2008
Status: offline 		As you have more and more youngsters of today coming into the niche genre from thw wow of sprites of other games you're going to have a change of venue on what is going to be popular. Even I who grew up on cardboard counters and cardboard maps enjoy the sprites now moreso than boring counters. Squad Leader started it off by putting unit design on counters and I've liked that ever since. Instead of 4-4-8 or 8-6-12 that's just rather boring now.

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 10
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 9:24:33 PM   
Arctic Blast


Posts: 1168
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Completely depends on the game.

_____________________________

Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily.

(in reply to killroyishere)
Post #: 11
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 11:12:40 PM   
Feltan


Posts: 567
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

This may sound odd coming from me, being so closely associated with ACW games that employ sprites, but, for most purposes, I'd just as soon have a 2D map and symbols.

Sprite and/or 3D art is expensive and drives the cost of developing a game WAY up, so much so, that it's hard to justify the largely unrecoverable expense that a developer incurs when it builds what our readers refer to as a "wargame."

I'd also note that there's something of a myth out there, and it goes something like, "wow, if the developers would just do this in 3D, it'd be a hit!" In the overwhelming majority of cases, I simply don't believe that's true of this little niche of the gaming world that we inhabit.

As always, I'm not celebrating the above realities. It's just the practical side of me, the pragmatist.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)



+1

Exactly correct.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 12
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/30/2009 8:46:18 AM   
Aces8


Posts: 2095
Joined: 2/4/2009
From: Holbrook Massachusetts, USA
Status: offline 		Counters because they rock

_____________________________

But when Territories are acquired in regions where there are differences in language, customs, and laws then great good fortune and much hard work are required to hold them.

-Machiavelli, Il Principe, Book III-

(in reply to Feltan)
Post #: 13
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/30/2009 11:48:08 AM   
cmurphy625


Posts: 585
Joined: 1/19/2009
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline 		Definately depends on the game.... Sometimes both are needed, in Battleground Civil war.. I'm glad you can do the zoom out view when your moving troops around .. but when you zoom in, I like the sprites cause you can view the facing/formation, and the lil guys are cool (are just wish the views were bigger fro today's screen resolutions)..!

(in reply to Aces8)
Post #: 14
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/30/2009 4:09:39 PM   
Greybriar


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/9/2007
Status: offline 		Sprites because I've been spoiled by the eye candy of recent games.

_____________________________

This war is not about slavery. --Robert E. Lee

(in reply to bairdlander)
Post #: 15
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/30/2009 9:52:49 PM   
martok


Posts: 797
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

Sprites because I've been spoiled by the eye candy of recent games.

I'm kind of the same way. Not that I feel the need for visuals on the level of Empire Total War, but I do like the sprites in the older TW games (Shogun and Medieval), as well as those such as in Dominions 3.

I'm not sure if that makes me a graphics whore, but I do think sprites help lend a bit of personality to a game. But as you say, I may just be spoiled as well....





_____________________________

"Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal


(in reply to Greybriar)
Post #: 16
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/31/2009 12:13:07 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1590
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		Some sprites are just plain ugly and make me want to rip the eyes from my sockets so I wont have to look at them, just as I've seen counters that are just plain beautiful.I love counters in general anyways.

_____________________________


Art by rogueusmc.

(in reply to martok)
Post #: 17
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/31/2009 1:54:56 AM   
sabre1


Posts: 1928
Joined: 8/15/2001
From: CA
Status: offline 		It depends on the game for me. JTCS gives you both.

Tactical = Sprites
Operational/Strategic = counters.

There is that little boy in me that likes pushing around the tanks in the dirt.

(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 18
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/31/2009 3:32:27 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: martok

I do like the sprites in the older TW games (Shogun and Medieval)


Surely, you realize that those games benefited from huge print runs and sales, particularly when compared to wargames, even innovative ones like Conquest of the Aegean.

quote:

I'm not sure if that makes me a graphics whore,


I like a good-lookin' game as much as the next guy, but there's no free lunch. If a developer is looking at sales in the four-(to-low-five)-figure range, they have some decisions to make about what goes in, and what's left out.

If they bite the bullet and throw the whole budget at art, then there's no money left for things like multiplayer support, map/scenario editors, and/or replay functions which allow players to analyze the outcome of the game.

Pick your poison; you can't have it all.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)


_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to martok)
Post #: 19
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/31/2009 7:00:03 AM   
martok


Posts: 797
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline 		@ Prince of Eckmühl: Yeah, I'm aware of what you're saying, and in fact, I agree. I'm just saying that all other things being equal, yadda, yadda, yadda....


Also, sabre1 brings up a good point: I prefer sprites mostly on the tactical level (battles). Simple icons suit me just fine on the campaign map, however. So on games that have only a campaign level (e.g., battles are automated), I'm quite content with counters.



_____________________________

"Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal


(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 20
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 11/4/2009 9:51:36 PM   
ijontichy


Posts: 68
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline 		Counters for me because they are so good at displaying a lot of information in a small area, although sprites and 3D models can do a great job, too. One of the major concerns of wargame developers should be the display of information. How to most effectively and efficiently display all that data. In my opinion, most PC wargames do badly in that area. Especially compared to boardgames.

(in reply to martok)
Post #: 21
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 11/4/2009 10:12:02 PM   
killroyishere

 

Posts: 639
Joined: 4/23/2008
Status: offline 		The other bad thing about computer wargames is you never really get to see the combat calculations and what leads up to the results we see on the screen like a CRT. Some games give you the odds but most of them don't. You don't even get a formula guide in the manual like you do with board games either. Like how much advantage is that ridge or tree or hill or pot hole in the ground? You just have to take it for granted they programmed in terrain modifications. How do we really know? So, this is why I like the sprites as playing with counters without some combat calculations to figure out or shown and a combat results table is just too boring since there is no real hands on the pieces anyway.

A typical piece movement and combat in a pc game: Click on piece (look at it ain't it pretty?) move it next to an enemy piece (look at IT ain't it pretty?) move your piece into the enemy piece and watch some animated explosion and sit on your hands wondering "did I win? or did I lose?" and then the results after the explosion your piece is gone and the enemy is still there with 4-4-12 or a 10 on it nice and shiney (look at it ain't it pretty?) I don't know that just doesn't get me all excited like playing a board game. Mainly cause you get to touch the pieces, check rule books and battle calculation tables and above all else "get to roll them dice" 6's baby! yeah! Attacker Eliminated!

I think this is why I no longer buy pc wargames with counters only in them. There's just not that much you get to do and surely isn't very eye exciting. I can deal with games that allow both as that gives the choice to the gamer and they are not forced to play with counters or sprites only.

(in reply to ijontichy)
Post #: 22
RE: counters or sprites?why? - 11/5/2009 1:08:58 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 3178
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

... I'd also note that there's something of a myth out there, and it goes something like, "wow, if the developers would just do this in 3D, it'd be a hit!" In the overwhelming majority of cases, I simply don't believe that's true of this little niche of the gaming world that we inhabit.


In my experience, whenever a successful game goes to a 3D sequel, it's usu. a dissapointment.

Counters look more military, but sprites can be immediately recognized for what (units) they are.

_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 23
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> counters or sprites?why? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.940