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counters or sprites?why?

 
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counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 3:23:26 AM   
bairdlander

 

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Counters or sprites?I prefer counters,reminds me of oldschool board/wargames.
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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 3:32:10 AM   
Jeffrey H.


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Mee too. I think a lot of people stay away from this topic because they think you might be a spambot ?

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:10:41 AM   
killroyishere

 

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I prefer sprites as I like that minature game feel. Counters are boring to me. I also like isometric sprites as opposed to 2D flat ones something I wished SPW@W had of gotten upgraded to by this time.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:33:31 AM   
V22 Osprey


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To me it depends....JTCS I love the 3D sprites, but when it comes other games I like Counters better.Mostly because counters are alot more straight forward and easier to read, and convey more information at a glance.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:36:47 AM   
bairdlander

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

they think you might be a spambot ?

lol

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 2:52:50 PM   
Hard Sarge


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I think it depends on the game, some games feel better, with sprites, while others feel best with counters

(IE, Panzer General, wouldn't of been the same with Counters)

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 3:59:47 PM   
carnifex


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I prefer sprites ONLY if they are able to show blood and little body parts flying all over the place. Counters otherwise.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:00:50 PM   
JudgeDredd


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I'm with HS - depends on the game.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:03:24 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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This may sound odd coming from me, being so closely associated with ACW games that employ sprites, but, for most purposes, I'd just as soon have a 2D map and symbols.

Sprite and/or 3D art is expensive and drives the cost of developing a game WAY up, so much so, that it's hard to justify the largely unrecoverable expense that a developer incurs when it builds what our readers refer to as a "wargame."

I'd also note that there's something of a myth out there, and it goes something like, "wow, if the developers would just do this in 3D, it'd be a hit!" In the overwhelming majority of cases, I simply don't believe that's true of this little niche of the gaming world that we inhabit.

As always, I'm not celebrating the above realities. It's just the practical side of me, the pragmatist.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 4:22:02 PM   
killroyishere

 

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As you have more and more youngsters of today coming into the niche genre from thw wow of sprites of other games you're going to have a change of venue on what is going to be popular. Even I who grew up on cardboard counters and cardboard maps enjoy the sprites now moreso than boring counters. Squad Leader started it off by putting unit design on counters and I've liked that ever since. Instead of 4-4-8 or 8-6-12 that's just rather boring now.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 9:24:33 PM   
Arctic Blast


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Completely depends on the game.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/29/2009 11:12:40 PM   
Feltan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

This may sound odd coming from me, being so closely associated with ACW games that employ sprites, but, for most purposes, I'd just as soon have a 2D map and symbols.

Sprite and/or 3D art is expensive and drives the cost of developing a game WAY up, so much so, that it's hard to justify the largely unrecoverable expense that a developer incurs when it builds what our readers refer to as a "wargame."

I'd also note that there's something of a myth out there, and it goes something like, "wow, if the developers would just do this in 3D, it'd be a hit!" In the overwhelming majority of cases, I simply don't believe that's true of this little niche of the gaming world that we inhabit.

As always, I'm not celebrating the above realities. It's just the practical side of me, the pragmatist.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)



+1

Exactly correct.

Regards,
Feltan

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/30/2009 8:46:18 AM   
Aces8


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Counters because they rock

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/30/2009 11:48:08 AM   
cmurphy625


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Definately depends on the game.... Sometimes both are needed, in Battleground Civil war.. I'm glad you can do the zoom out view when your moving troops around .. but when you zoom in, I like the sprites cause you can view the facing/formation, and the lil guys are cool (are just wish the views were bigger fro today's screen resolutions)..!

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/30/2009 4:09:39 PM   
Greybriar


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Sprites because I've been spoiled by the eye candy of recent games.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/30/2009 9:52:49 PM   
martok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

Sprites because I've been spoiled by the eye candy of recent games.

I'm kind of the same way. Not that I feel the need for visuals on the level of Empire Total War, but I do like the sprites in the older TW games (Shogun and Medieval), as well as those such as in Dominions 3.

I'm not sure if that makes me a graphics whore, but I do think sprites help lend a bit of personality to a game. But as you say, I may just be spoiled as well....





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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/31/2009 12:13:07 AM   
V22 Osprey


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Some sprites are just plain ugly and make me want to rip the eyes from my sockets so I wont have to look at them, just as I've seen counters that are just plain beautiful.I love counters in general anyways.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/31/2009 1:54:56 AM   
sabre1


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It depends on the game for me. JTCS gives you both.

Tactical = Sprites
Operational/Strategic = counters.

There is that little boy in me that likes pushing around the tanks in the dirt.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/31/2009 3:32:27 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: martok

I do like the sprites in the older TW games (Shogun and Medieval)


Surely, you realize that those games benefited from huge print runs and sales, particularly when compared to wargames, even innovative ones like Conquest of the Aegean.

quote:

I'm not sure if that makes me a graphics whore,


I like a good-lookin' game as much as the next guy, but there's no free lunch. If a developer is looking at sales in the four-(to-low-five)-figure range, they have some decisions to make about what goes in, and what's left out.

If they bite the bullet and throw the whole budget at art, then there's no money left for things like multiplayer support, map/scenario editors, and/or replay functions which allow players to analyze the outcome of the game.

Pick your poison; you can't have it all.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)


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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 10/31/2009 7:00:03 AM   
martok


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@ Prince of Eckmühl: Yeah, I'm aware of what you're saying, and in fact, I agree. I'm just saying that all other things being equal, yadda, yadda, yadda....


Also, sabre1 brings up a good point: I prefer sprites mostly on the tactical level (battles). Simple icons suit me just fine on the campaign map, however. So on games that have only a campaign level (e.g., battles are automated), I'm quite content with counters.



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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 11/4/2009 9:51:36 PM   
ijontichy


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Counters for me because they are so good at displaying a lot of information in a small area, although sprites and 3D models can do a great job, too. One of the major concerns of wargame developers should be the display of information. How to most effectively and efficiently display all that data. In my opinion, most PC wargames do badly in that area. Especially compared to boardgames.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 11/4/2009 10:12:02 PM   
killroyishere

 

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The other bad thing about computer wargames is you never really get to see the combat calculations and what leads up to the results we see on the screen like a CRT. Some games give you the odds but most of them don't. You don't even get a formula guide in the manual like you do with board games either. Like how much advantage is that ridge or tree or hill or pot hole in the ground? You just have to take it for granted they programmed in terrain modifications. How do we really know? So, this is why I like the sprites as playing with counters without some combat calculations to figure out or shown and a combat results table is just too boring since there is no real hands on the pieces anyway.

A typical piece movement and combat in a pc game: Click on piece (look at it ain't it pretty?) move it next to an enemy piece (look at IT ain't it pretty?) move your piece into the enemy piece and watch some animated explosion and sit on your hands wondering "did I win? or did I lose?" and then the results after the explosion your piece is gone and the enemy is still there with 4-4-12 or a 10 on it nice and shiney (look at it ain't it pretty?) I don't know that just doesn't get me all excited like playing a board game. Mainly cause you get to touch the pieces, check rule books and battle calculation tables and above all else "get to roll them dice" 6's baby! yeah! Attacker Eliminated!

I think this is why I no longer buy pc wargames with counters only in them. There's just not that much you get to do and surely isn't very eye exciting. I can deal with games that allow both as that gives the choice to the gamer and they are not forced to play with counters or sprites only.

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RE: counters or sprites?why? - 11/5/2009 1:08:58 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

... I'd also note that there's something of a myth out there, and it goes something like, "wow, if the developers would just do this in 3D, it'd be a hit!" In the overwhelming majority of cases, I simply don't believe that's true of this little niche of the gaming world that we inhabit.


In my experience, whenever a successful game goes to a 3D sequel, it's usu. a dissapointment.

Counters look more military, but sprites can be immediately recognized for what (units) they are.

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