Matrix Games Forums

War in the West gets its first update!Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm version 2.08 is now available!Command gets huge update!Order of Battle: Pacific Featured on Weekly Streaming SessionA new fight for Battle Academy!Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager is out for Mac!The definitive wargame of the Western Front is out now! War in the West gets teaser trailer and Twitch Stream!New Preview AAR for War in the West!War in the West Manual preview
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Gary Grigsby's Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich >> The War Room >> RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 4/1/2010 2:45:36 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Chart # 4





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 31
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 4/1/2010 2:46:52 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
In Chart # 3 we have ranked the industries by the Average Production Capacity per individual facility of that industry. This is a lot more representative of the Production Density of individual facilities of each of the industries. In Chart # 4 we have ranked the industries by the % of the overall National Production Capacity that each individual facility of each industry represents. This is even more telling of the potential value of facilities of the various industries with respect to their potential weight in overall German production. We can also see that in the higher end of the ranking of each there are several “Critical” industries. This is significant. This shows that purely on the basis of Industrial Density per Production Facility of the various industries causing damage to facilities in Rubber Fabrication, Ball Bearing Fabrication and Aluminium Fabrication will have the potential for causing more significant damage to overall German industry and production capacity as compared to all the other industrial categories. However, as revealing as this may be it still has not touched on the interconnections and interdependencies between the various industries as I have mentioned earlier.

As I have also mentioned earlier, take care not to jump to conclusions because this is very complex. There is also “More than one way to choke a dog”. So I don’t recommend that you start launching missions at facilities of these particular industries. Take a look at the Map and look at the equipment you have. In the 1943 campaign in the opening months to isolate just these industries will be extremely costly and could result in disaster. So we still have a long way to go before we are able to put together a viable Pathway.

Now I have built what I refer to as the Target Effects Array. This is a flow chart showing the interconnections and interdependencies that I have spoken about. What I have done is taken the various types of Production Industries and arrayed them on a flow chart by virtue of their interdependencies. Starting at any point on the chart with any industry one can follow the Flow of the effect of causing damage to that industry to those industries that are interconnected and / or interdependent with it. The flow can be followed all the way down the chart to see what the ultimate effect on the Production Output is in the Effect Array.

For example if one starts at the <ALUM> Aluminium Fabrication Industry and follows the flow of the effect of damage to that industry one can easily see that damage to Aluminium production will direclty effect the productivity of <AFAC> Aircraft Assembly, <EFAC> Engine Fabrication, <CFAC> Avionics and Components production and <ARM> Armaments manufacturing. Which will have the ultimate effect on the output of Aircraft Production, Repair and Replacements as well as Ground Defense Production.

Now lets look at this particular possible Pathway of focusing on Aluminium Fabrication. If we look at our Pareto charts from earlier we can see that in Chart # 1 and Chart # 2, Aluminium Industry is at the far right or Lower end of the Production Capacity ranking. This means that relative to all other Production Industries Aluminium production does not represent a major or significant proportion of overall German Production Capacity. But as I stated earlier that analysis does not take into effect either the Production Density of that industry or the facilities of it.

Now if we look at Chart # 3 and Chart # 4, where we have ranked the Capacity Density of individual Facilities of all the industries by both specific industries and by the overall National Production Capacity we can see that each individual facility for Aluminium fabrication ranks as a more significant target. This is further raised in significance by the fact the Aluminium Fabrication is also classified as a “Critical” industry.

So we can now see that following a Pathway of Aluminium fabrication as a Strategic Bombing Target will directly effect the manufacturing of parts and components for aircraft assembly which will then effect the output of Aircraft Production, Repair and Replacement, as well as the output of Ground Defense Production. Therefore if your strategy calls for the reduction of the output of Axis Aircraft and Ground Defense then targeting Aluminium Fabrication becomes a viable Targeting Pathway.

Now that being determined, take a look again at the Map and your Forces. You have a long way to go to crush German industy following only this one Pathway. So you are going to have to study the Target Effects Array flow chart a lot more and find other Pathways to simultaneously work on in an overall multifaceted approach if you hope to obtain success over the Axis.

I will present some other subsets of this flow chart that IMHO have some significance. So much so that I want to make sure the readers connect the dots as it were.







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 32
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 4/1/2010 2:48:46 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Now if you want to effect the output of Aircraft Production, Repair and Replacement and / or the output of Ground Defense Production then a significant pathway is the Pathway of Steel as I refer to it. I have cut this section out and placed it below so that it can be seen much easier. Note that at the top of it are two “Critical” industries, Steel Fabrication and Ball Bearing Fabrication. Note that Ball Bearing Fabrication is effected by damage to Steel Fabrication. By causing damage to Steel Fabrication you are applying direct pressure on Ball Bearing Fabrication as well as the three Aircraft industries along with Armaments Production. If you also cause damage to Ball Bearing Fabrication directly, then now you are applying pressure directly to the three Aircraft industries as well as Armaments Production from two directions. This can have the potential to cause an increased effect to those industries. By following the flow down the chart one can see that the ultimate effect is on the output of Aircraft Production, Repair and Replacement as well as Ground Defense Production. Link this effect with what we have already examined with Aluminium Fabrication and now you can apply direct pressure to these four industries and their associated outputs from three directions. This is a very rigorous Strategic Bombing Pathway.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 33
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 4/1/2010 2:49:31 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
If your goal is to effect the number of Sorties the Axis Air Forces are able to fly then you should consider what I refer to as the Pathway of Oil. Again I have cut this section out from the overall Target Effects Array to make sure that it can be recognized. In this pathway note that it starts with <OILS> Oil Storage. Causing damage to Oil Storage will apply direct pressure to the three major industries that produce Aviation Fuels, which are <CHEM> Chemical Fabrication, <OILR> Oil Refinery and <FUEL> Synthetic Fuel Refinery. If you follow the flow of effects from those three industries you can see that the ultimate effect is on Axis Sorties. Damage to Oil Storage will effect the industries that produce Aviation fuels which will serve to limit the number and duration of Axis Sorties able to be flown. Note that by damaging Oil Storage alone pressure can be applied to Axis Sorties from three different direction. If you also cause damage to any or all of Chemcial Fabrication, Oil Refining and Synthetic Fuel Refining this can serve the potential of increasing the pressure directly on Axis Sorties.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 34
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 4/1/2010 2:50:44 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Many other pathways can be carved out of the Target Effects Array. I will not belabor this point. I just wanted to show what IMHO are some of the possibilities by looking at the Strategic Targets this way.

There are some other things that I have not yet shown with respect to the Target Effects Array Flow Chart. So far I have focused solely on Production Industries. Now lets take a look at the Transportation Industries. Those consist of Ports and Rail. The Game Manual describes what these two types of facilities are. I have put them into the format of the Target Effects Array I built for Production Industries and have placed them below. Doing damage to Ports will result in effecting National Industrial Strength. The Manual also describes the effects of damaging Rail facilities as effecting Supply Lines to Ground Forces, Transport of Resources and Production and Direclty effects nearby Industries.







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 35
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 4/1/2010 2:51:27 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Study of that which I have presented does show that there is in fact “More than one way to choke a dog”. As for me, I have done a lot of reading and have found some very interesting information about what effects where had by the damaging of various kinds of targets during the war. The Game Manual shows and states that causing damage to <POWER> Electic Power Plants causes a direct effect to ALL industries. With the greatest effect to those nearby. As I have also shown here damaging Rail facilities will effect the transport and distribution of the components of all production. This along with actual historical reports from the effects of targeting Power and Transportation with Strategic Daylight Bombardment has prompted me to select my major Pathway as that of Power and Transportation in my 1943 Campaign.

Again, what I have presented here is by no means and in no way to be considered as “The Only Way” or the “Best Way” but merely “One Way” or “The KayBay Way”. And it carries with it no promise of success. However as I have played this fantastic game for several years now I have gained I think a much better understanding of it. Recalling how daunting it was when I first started I wanted to present some of what I had observed and learned as well as some of the thoughts those things generated within me to members of the community exploring this game that may be experiencing what I did in the early days. This is just the beginning. I will continue with this thread as my time allows. But I wanted to at least get over the Beginning for Daylight Strategic Bombing. In future posts I will discuss actual mission planning and building for various types of missions. Keep in mind my way is one of intense immersion within this game.

I do hope you all will forgive how the Excel spreadsheets pasted to this thread. There is only so much I can do and I realize they didn’t transfer as they appear on my hard drive. But I do think readers will be able to see what I am presenting. My hope is that it makes things a bit clearer for those playing this game. I am also sure that there are many of you out there that far surpass my feeble understanding of this game. But I hope that I am making some positive contribution to those curious ones.

Regards,
KayBay




_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 36
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 4/10/2010 12:42:55 AM   
Nicholas Bell

 

Posts: 423
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline
Great stuff, Kaybayray.  You obviously spent a lot of time and effort putting this together.  Thanks for posting.

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 37
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 4/10/2010 1:13:30 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Hey Nick <S>

Thank you very much Sir !!

You, Sarge, Swift, Harley, TechSgt all were part of this as well as many unnamed. Thanks to great advice, insight, sharing of observations and test run results plus all the Reality Checks you guys have given me made it possible for me to put all of this thread together. Never could have done any of this without a ton of help from all you guys and many many others that are not named.

And Nick, thank you so much for discussing so many topics with me and really giving me things to think about. I really do appreciate it all. You have done some really serious work with this game. And you have shared it openly. I appreciate that very much. This game is just so complex. The more I dig the deeper it gets. One day I might catch up to you... LOL yeah.. maybe in my dreams .. but seriously, thanks for all you are giving me.

Regards to the entire Community,

<S> KayBay

More to come... gota cool my brain cells.. only have 3 functioning ones left.. gota take care of em.

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to Nicholas Bell)
Post #: 38
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 4/11/2010 12:44:34 PM   
swift


Posts: 4058
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
very nice !

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 39
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 4/11/2010 6:48:57 PM   
mikkey


Posts: 838
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
very interesting observations, thanks for sharing Kaybayray!

_____________________________


(in reply to swift)
Post #: 40
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 9/3/2010 3:50:56 PM   
Jeff1234

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/3/2010
Status: offline
Hello:

Read with much interest KayBay's ideas and responses from others, including Tech Serg. and have been trying them out. This was AFTER intitially leaping into the game with great enthusiasm and getting both my day and night bomber forces slaughtered (as Allied commander, Bombing the Reich, 700 game turn game). Even my fighters took a pounding. Disconcerting. And discouraging. To quote one person here, this game is as hard as molybdenum! Forced me to start reading, especially here in the forums and stop being a point and click gamer, as KB said it.

Starting again, following especially Kaybay's night doctrine and others ideas on day time fighter escort, I have watched my losses decrease vastly, and damage to the enemy increase. Have become a fanatic about recon plotting. Many questions remain though, and here they are:

* I have been streaming night fighters into my bomber stream. They don't seem to do much at all. Never score kills. Think I'm timing them right, but the NJG just seem to wade in when they find the stream and start shooting without being bothered. (Granted, the distraction and bomber streaming techniques devised by Kay Bay have VASTLY reduced my losses. Was losing 100+ bombers a raid intitally.) But what am I doing wrong? Why don't my nightfighters in the bomber stream score any kills?
* planting my night fighters on CAP on suspected NJG airfields has yielded a few kills of landing NJG aircraft (which is is just SO much fun to see) but considering how much planning goes into staggering arrival times and altitudes for them, returns are not encouraging. What's a good altitude to place a CAP of night fighters overa German airfield? What times are best to send them out?
* Comment, rather than question: I found that an actual distraction RAID (ie, real bombs falling), rather than RCM distraction, yielded the best results for keeping night bombing losses low. Case: Sent my later model bombers (Lancaster I & III, Halifaxes, Wellington III, Stirling III) to Bremen and the cities just south of it, up by the North Sea coast, using Kaybay's technique, but sent all my Stirling I's, with their poor ceiling and speed, on a earlier distraction raid to the Dusseldorf/Neiss region in the Ruhr, accompanied by heavy RCM support. Planted RCM's on as many radarsites as possible. Also did a Mosquito raid on another even farther south city, and it pulled more NJG away. Low losses. Three Mossies. Rationale: lure the NJG with the crap and/or high speed bombers and preserve the high value heavies. It worked. Essentially zero losses among the northern advanced model heavy raid (three in total, all due to flak) and 13 Stirling's destroyed. The Stirling still still a good job and hammered those two cities. Morale for Stirlings took a moderate hit. But, of course, this is one raid, and who knows if the AI will see through it next time.
* Delay on escort has been a huge help in keeping daytime bomber losses acceptable. What kind of timing on escort works best? Been playing with 20 minute delay, 30 minute, forty minute etc, depending on length of mission, but if someone has a good data base on this, would love to see it.
* Why, oh why, when there is a damaged enemy site (especially radar site) that I hit with bombers to return to 99% damage after a first devastating raid, does the raid actually result in the site being less damaged than before, even when I actually watch bombers during the action phase dropping bombs on the site? This has happened more than once. It's as if having damage makes a site immune to further damage. Bug? Happens most especially with radar sites, but those are the ones I hit the most that way (to return to more damage, but seen it also with industrial targets), so maybe it applies to all sites.
* Still trying to figure out fighter sweeps. They get some kills, but considering the pounding I've given sites, especially in Italy with German/Italian airfields choked with aircraft, results are spotty. For bombing, I integrated the idea that it is best to hit airfields when aircraft are taxiing and or just landed, and thus out of pens. But even so, having multiple squadrons hitting airfields that I know have lots of aircraft (and considering the historical damage such raids caused) results are low. What am I doing wrong?
* Totally eliminated low level attacks. Thought they might be effective, but comments here made me change my whole approach. Nothing below 12,000 feet. That really worked to reduce losses. Got caught in one flak trap in my first (untutored) game that destroyed three P-47 squadrons. Is there ANY time that a low level attack yields benefits that outweigh losses?
No doubt more questions on the way. KayBay, keep ideas coming. This is a FANTASTIC game!

Jeff

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 41
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 9/3/2010 5:47:35 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1446
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
1) I have myself seen just 2 nocturnal A-A nightfighter vs. nightfighter kills. One for Jerries, one for Tommies. Both times the other participant was a Ju-88 C-6, the other a Mosquito, not sure of Mosquito models.

2) Since you want to catch them at landing, its waste of planes to patrol them when your forces are ingressing. At very low alt they might be undetected by the Germans until they attack, which can come handy in a PBEM. The flak will not shoot them if they dont patrol directly over the airfield, while they are still able to shoot landing planes - without any risk of flak (from the field at least). However theres a slight chance of crashing to the ground, but I dont see that happen often at all.

3) Diversion and distraction raids work very well against AI, which will just throw up everything it has against your first raid. Usually at least... A human player is likely to sit back, watch the situation develope and keep his eyes on radio activity.

4) Timing of course depends on bomber types, where their target is, what fighters you have etc. You might want to have 1 or 2 units fly with the bombers from the beginning, 30-40% join over coast (or where you expect the Germans to be able to intercept the formation should they scramble the moment it pops up on their radars), and more escorts joining up over or right after the target. Some sweeps at the egress route, well timed, will also come handy for protecting the damaged stragglers the actual escorts have hard time protecting.

5) Recce up. I havent seen that myself unless if the recon photo has been old - the game will not count the repair rates for you, and the damage reported by bomber crews might have been exaggerated.

6) Sweeps are usually 0 priority targets for the enemy, so you either have to park them over airfields or make "screens" of them - either ahead of bombers near the target area, at the directions the enemy will arrive, and at the path of the bombers - especially when the bomber fleet is egressing, its good to have some sweeps protecting stragglers or attacking the enemies ahead of the formation whenn ingressing. But often a sweep meets no opposition - you might want to use just one unit per sweep.

7) Yeah, low level attacks do work, but not if the target is protected by anything other than heavy guns. Recon, recon, recon... Ie. in Italy you can attack unprotected targets near the coast with low level raids - that you can usually leave unescorted. Works especially if they are timed to be over targets the same time or after the day's main raid.

(in reply to Jeff1234)
Post #: 42
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 9/4/2010 12:50:06 PM   
Dobey

 

Posts: 400
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline
Hi KB,

Nice work with all of the analysis. I think it will be of great value to anyone learning the ideas behing the game and behind possible ways of putting together a coherent air campaign.

One thing with regard to oil storage. I'm not sure that destroying oil storage will reduce output form either chemical factories or synthetic oil plants. (After all the whole idea of synthetic fuel is that it is not dependent on crude oil.)

I know that oil storage contains both refined\synthesized oil (finished product) and crude oil (base ingredient) so destroying oil storage should reduce the amount of crude that is available to Oil refineries, reducing refinery output. It WILL also destroy finished product from synthetic refineries, but I can't see it reducing production output.

I'm very keen to see how your strategy choice of transport and Power goes.
The strengths of this strategy, as I see them, are:

1) That both targets are relatively "Small" meaning that tactical AC have a realistic chance of destroying them.

2) Transport are valid targets under "Avalanche" targeting requirements meaning that the 12th AF and the Med Air Command can work in unison with the 8th AF and other UK based TAC airforces.

3) Similar to above, BC can be used in unison to other AF's to hit transport links meaning you have so many more assets to focus on these targets.

4) As you mention both target types reduce local output so inductrial areas like the Rhur can be all but shut down if you cripple the local transport and power grids.

Weaknesses:

1) Power and transport are among the most numerous targets. There are SOOOO many you'll need to hit to cripple the systems.

2) Transport repairs much faster than factories so you'll need to keep going back to these sites again and again.

Once again - great work, can't wait to see how it goes

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 43
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 9/30/2010 7:42:01 PM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Hey Guys !!

Sorry I have been away so long. Actually this year I have been working in Germany in one of the target facilities. I wont say which cause I dont want to get bombed.

I am glad my strats on this game are being at least tried and I hope they are if nothing else thought provoking for the community to aid you all in playing this most fantastic game.

In reply to Jeff1234,
Just my thoughts and as usual my disclaimer about this is just my thoughts and not meant to be construed as "The Way to Win"... most likely the way to lose but fun I hope.

For Bomber Command

My observations are that I get the best kills of NJG units at their operational air fields. I would suggest you reread my posts about setting this type of mission up. The key points are maintaining an overlap of CAP AC at those air fields so you can catch them returning. My observations are that withing about an hour of my Seduction and Destraction groups entry I start to see some NJG AC RTB. If I have selected air fields wisely then I snag some. Getting kills in my bomber streams as thrilling as it is when it happens is quite rare. And I would expect it to be so. Recall in order for your NF AC to get kills in stream many things must happen. Detection, Sighting, Vectoring, Shooting and Hitting. Chances are probably better to win the Lotto. Recon is GOD in this game. If you dont know where enemy Squadrons and Groups are located you're just swingin dead cats blindly.

With respect to RCM destraction missions, in the early game they are weak or non existant. But as the game progresses they gain capabilities and will be more effective. I would suggest study up on the various platforms and what they do so that as they become available as your campaign progresses you have a better idea on how you might employ them. Just remember that GG put in dice rolls for everything and that includes modifiers so many things can or can not happen any givin mission. Over time patterns will emerge and if you see them you can use them to gain advantage. Just remember the enemy cant really see any better than you can. They are going to try to react to AC groups entering their airspace as best they can. This is the primise of the Seduction and Destraction missions in my strategy. Dont get wrapped up in the numbers.

Daylight Strategic Bombing
I am still working with this and not prepared to really post more at this time. I am finding that this is really the challenging aspect of this game for a multitude of reasons not all having to due with mission strategy.

I will post more replies as I have time as Life has become very busy for me lately. However it was fun actually working in one of these strategic targets. The Bier was quite good as well.

Later,
KayBay

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to Jeff1234)
Post #: 44
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 10/1/2010 12:30:21 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Hey Guys

Sorry I didnt have a lot of time to reply to some or your posts here. I have a bit of time now before I have to head out again so I will share some thoughts.

In reply to Jeff1234,

With respect to what you get reported as to damage from your bombing, be it Night Area or Daylight Strategic, keep this as your Mantra...... "Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear". I have to say that IMO this game really does a good job of Fog of War in the quality of the After Action Reports you get. Dont believe anything from your strike forces.. again I can not say RECON enough. Recon Recon Recon.... and then... Recon some more.

With respect to Fighter Sweeps.
The patch I think I am playing my current campaign under the FS are broken and my Groups rip the Luftwaffe a new rear end pretty much every time so I pretty much dont run them as I dont think this result is Kosher early in the 43 campaign. If it were late 44 to early 45 then I might consider it to be acceptable. But some things to think about as I still do run campaigns in the Original Talonsoft game as well as various patch levels of the Matrix versions. Check out the Ordnance loads and onboard gun packages of the aircraft you are using for Fighter Sweeps. Pay attention to what configuration of what AC actually do some form of damage to the field and / or destroy or damage AC on the ground. It does make a difference. And then there's the R word.. RECON... if you dont know where they are you cant destroy them on the ground. But then you must also realize that this is more than just destroying Airframes. As your campaign progresses you should reailze that this is more a test of attrition of Pilots especially for the Luftwaffe. If you want to actually Kill Luftwaffe Pilots you must catch them on the ground. This is a matter of timing and luck. But if you are like me and you pay attention to each and every Group you send out and equal attention to enemy forces during your missions you can glean a lot of usable information as well.

I have volumes of notebooks for my campaigns. I keep track of pretty much everything I deem to be usable to build and plan strikes for. I formulate operations within Theaters over short periods of time. Yes just like in WWII, I focus on different things as my campaignn unfolds and I see patterns emerge. Then I deal with them as best I can. I do a lot of study about the equipment and units and I pay attention in game. Typically I spend about 3 weeks to build one days worth of missions for a campaign. Then I spend a good part of the day on a weekend watching the action unfold. If you do this you will be able to see which units react quickly and where they are with respect to when they first may have become aware of your strikes. Watch, Listen and Learn.. and then RECON some more.

You will find some AC types are better suited for FS engagments than others. Some AC should just be melted down and made ash trays of because that is about all they are worth. The idea is you need to figure out what to replace and with what quickly as it takes time to rebuild units.

OK now in general overall.... I tend work the crap out of my Groups when I fly them. But I rest them and rebuild them afterwards. Typically I can only fly BC about 3-4 times a week and my Daylight Strategic units workouts depend on the Weather. Which lucky for them is pretty bad most of the time so they usually get a lot of rest. Yes my recent work in Germany this year definately confirmed that.. typically only saw the sun once a week maybe twice at best.

I would suggest you reread my posts as I have so much information there it is easy to overlook things that may be significant. Of course I am not implying that anything I am saying will actually work or that you have to do it my way. Always remember this is "The KayBay Way" and may lead to your DOOM

Anyways... I hope I have been somewhat helpful and at least provided you with some things to consider in your campaigns. And just in case you didnt read it.... RECON RECON RECON !!!


Later,
KayBay


_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to Jeff1234)
Post #: 45
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 10/1/2010 12:53:31 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Hey Dobey

In reply to your post.
You are spot on all things as usual. Thanks again for your posts on this thread.

I am pursuing a Strategic strategy on Power and Transportation because I have read over the full Allied Strategic Bombing Survey agains Germany in WWII and have come to some conclusions. Based on the responses by the Germans after the war, which was considerable, I found that it appeared that bombing the factories did a couple things. One was, not a lot of damage to the critical equipment at the targets. Namely the Tools or Machines that produced the hardware. Most of these machines required a direct hit from a very large size bomb to actually destroy it. Most of the damage was just to the building and left the equipment intact. This forced the Dispersion of manufacturing to the surrounding area in homes, barnes and basements of the local regions. But the significant fact is that the strikes did not really destroy the Machines.

So if I can not actually destroy the Machines that Produce the War Hardware then I am looking to remove them by eleminating their Power Source. Removing this effectively removes the Machines. But as you point out the power grid is huge. However there is a weakness. Ohms Law I believe is the relavent concept. I am making the assumption that destruction or damaging Power Generation facilities will effect delivery of power most to those strategic facilities closest to that particular Power Station on the grid. Power will still be delivered from those facilities still intact however this will reduce the overall level of power destributed to the entire Grid. Ohms Laws says there is resistance to delivery over long distances of transferr of current so this should further exacerbate the situation for the power grid.

Transportation should react similarly but should have a more pointed effect on local industry near destroyed or damaged Transportation facilities. However this will not have the similar effect to the overall Transportation system as it would on the power grid. But overall there should be a significant effect over time.

Of course this is like the Joke of the Environmentalists, the Industrialist and the Physicist tyring to aid the Third World Leader in saving his people from starvation... as the Physicist said... "If we assume Cows are round I think we may have a viable solution"... So my strategy in many ways is assuming Cows are Round.

Later,
KayBay

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to Dobey)
Post #: 46
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 3/23/2011 11:52:28 PM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Hey I'm Back <S>

Has it really been 6 months?

Well I have been busy running my campaign and having a blast. I answered a post on the general thread with some info I found about RCM Equipment and I thought I would post it since I dont believe I did on this thread. I will paste it here as I think some may be interested in it. I am not yet ready to add to my Daylight Operations portion of this thread but I do have some things about some other aspects that I thought might be interesting so I will follow up this post with a few others that some of you that are fairly new to this fantastic game may find helpful or at least interesting.

Later,
KayBay

So here it is. A listing of many of the various types of RCM Equipment of WWII in Europe. Many of them are modeled to some level in the game.

DATE__ USER___ ITEM ___________FUNCTION
================================================== =================
2/40___Ger____Knickebein________Navigation beam
6/40___Ger____Wurzburg_________Detection Radar - 40 km range - flak control
9/40___Allies___Asperin__________ Knickebein jammers
9/40___Ger____Freya_____________Improved detection radar - 120 km range-no altitude
10/40__Ger____Wurzburg II_______Pair of radars-1 tracks bombers, other tracks interceptors
9/41___Ger____Wurzburg Reise ___Improved Wurzburg - 120km range
2/42___Ger____Lichstenstein______Airborne radar - night fighters - 200 - 3,000 m range
3/42___Ger____Mammut _________Detection radar - 330 km range - no altitude
3/42___Ger____Wasserman ______Detection radar - 240 km range - altitude detection
3/42___Allies___Gee ____________Airborne navigation from ground transmitters
6/42___Allies___Shaker __________Gee-equipped Pathfinders provide aiming points
8/42___Allies___Moonshine _______Amplified 'Freya' returns - for feint operations
8/42___Ger____Heinrich __________'Gee'-jammer; rendered Gee unusable by 11/42___
11/42__Allies__Mandrel ___________airborne 'Freya'-jammer
11/42__Allies__Tinsel _____________electronic communications jammer
12/42__Allies__Oboe ______________groundbased bombing radar - 430 km range -
1/43___Allies__H2S _______________ground mapping airborne radar - not debugged ’til 11/43
3/43___Allies__Monica _____________tail warning radar -range 1000m - warned of tailing a/c
3/43___Allies__Boozer _____________Radar receiver - warned of Wurzburg or Lichtenstein
6/43___Allies__A1 Mk 9 ____________Improved radar for night fighters
6/43___Allies__Serrate _____________Detected Lictenstein
7/43___Allies__Window _____________tinfoil strips - created an electronic ’smoke screen’
8/43___Allies__Special Tinsel ________Updated communications jammers
9/43___Ger____Naxburg ____________detected H2S
10/43__Allies__ABC ________________Airborne jammers - jammed German ground control system
10/43__Allies__Corona ______________Sp. Tinsel jammer - sent out false instructions to German Fighters
10/43__Ger____SN-2 _______________Night fighter radar - immune to Window - range 400-6,000m
11/43__Ger____Nurmburg ___________Modified Wurzburg - allowed detection through Window
11/43__Ger____Flensburg ___________Airborne Monica detector
12/43__Ger____Dartboard ___________sent coded jamming communications to fighter pilots
1/44___Allies__Oboe2 ______________Oboe with a new type of radar signal
1/44___Ger____Naxos ______________Airborne H2S receiver - used to locate H2S equipped bombers
4/44___Ger____Jagdschloss _________Jam-resistant ground radar - 150 km range
4/44___Ger____Egon _______________Jam-resistant fighter control radio - range 200 km
8/44___Allies__Jostle _______________Airborne multi-frequency ‘barrage’ jammer
9/44___Allies__Window 2____________jammed SN-2
10/44__Allies__Serrate 4 ____________detect and locate new SN-2
12/44__Allies__Perfectos ____________triggered German IFFto located enemy fighters
12/44__Allies__Micro-H ______________Backup alternative for Gee


_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 47
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 5/19/2012 12:09:40 PM   
Orm


Posts: 6923
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Very informative. Thank you.

_____________________________

"It would seem that you have no useful skill or talent whatsoever," he said.
"Have you thought of going into teaching?"

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 48
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 5/19/2012 12:17:17 PM   
harley


Posts: 1662
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline
hey, you found it then... :D


_____________________________

gigiddy gigiddy gig-i-ddy

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 49
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 5/19/2012 4:19:45 PM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Hey Harley!!

Thank You !!


I have a question about the forum. I see 40+ threads showing in the thread count but I can on access the first 6 or 7. I dont see a way to expand the display or access the other threads. The problem may be at my end. It's probably just ignorance on my part. Could you help me figure this out?

Kind Regards,

KayBay

And thanks for bringing it forward, you guys are awesome along with this fantastic game.

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to harley)
Post #: 50
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 5/19/2012 4:33:49 PM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Harley,

Orm just answered my question. DOH, I'm such a moron. Sorry bro.

Later,
KayBay

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 51
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 5/19/2012 6:22:06 PM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Greetings <S>

Life has pulled me away for some time but I have returned to continue. I am still working on this overall session but I thought I should post at least a Taste of what is coming. So get comfortable and I hope as usual that it is found enjoyable or at the very least interesting.

Well I have spent many months in my Bunker working hard to dismantle German Industry and tear up the Luftwaffe. I have had some good overall successes as well as some Whoopins but mostly I have been having a lot of fun. So I thought I should get back to it here and get some more posted. So with that in mind let’s get going.

OK…. Recall now I have shown and described my basic Opener for this campaign. Move and organize your forces and then Recon. But before you can do that you need to have an overall plan for your Daylight Strategic Bombing forces. I have selected to follow the pathway of Power and Transportation. However regardless of which pathway you select for your campaign in order to be successful you should be following a basic sequence to prepare for and carry out a Strike with your Daylight forces against Industrial targets.

What I am presenting here is for the most part a sequence of steps I would recommend you take to build a typical Daylight Strategic Strike. Just as with my use of Bomber Command assets my goal is for maximum immersion with my Daylight assets. Again my standard Disclaimer is that this is not to be considered as me saying this is the “Only” way to success. Rather my perspective is that this is “The KayBay Way” of doing things and as stated before, not necessarily the best way or even a good way. Following my way of doing things could lead to disaster but my hope is that it will lead to some very in depth enjoyment of this fantastic game. And as before if you are not looking to play this game at my level of immersion then I recommend that you stop reading right now. Because continuing to read on will just annoy you.

As with my use of Bomber Command for Night Operations my Daylight Strategic strikes are broken down into a sequence of Phases. However these phases are not necessarily executed all in the same day or during the same overall operation of just one day. In Daylight operations you don’t have the cover of darkness and your assets are not very difficult to locate and intercept successfully. So if you don’t want to get spanked on a regular basis you need to us the “T” word and “Think” about what you want to do, how you intend on doing it and build a plan to carry it out. Remember that not having a plan for success is having a plan for failure. To build and execute a strong Daylight Strategic Operation requires typically several days of planning and preparation. Once you get things rolling it becomes much easier to set up the next operation and then on again to the next as you work to destroy German Industry. As you continue to carry out your operations they should congeal into one overall fluid like system in which each day you are executing various stages of several Strategic Operations. You will have many setbacks, Political Targeting Constraints will always be looming and the Weather will always be unpredictable and very troublesome.







So where do we begin? First we must organize our overall strategy into groups of common activities or phases. I see a basic Operational Strategy organized into a group of particular phases each to be carried out in a standard sequence. These phases are namely, Target Selection Phase, Reconnaissance Phase, Strike Preparation Phase, Strike Execution Phase and finally Post Strike Assessment Phase. Each of these are further broken down into various sub categories or sub operations associated with each as you will see. Some may overlap into other phases depending on the specific purpose of a phase and the needs of your operations. So let me give a brief overview of what each of these phases are. Then I will begin working through each phase in an example that I hope will bring it all together and make more sense of it all.

Target Selection Phase

This is the selection of the actual Strategic Target or Targets that will be the focus of your Primary Strategic Strike for a single days’ operations. These are the Targets that all other missions and operations are being planned and executed in support of. Recall your target selection must fall within your selected Targeting Pathway or within what ever Political Targeting constraint you are dealing with.

This early in the campaign the equipment you have is not very good, doesn’t fly very far and doesn’t carry much. You also don’t have a lot of anything with the possible exception of near obsolete AC. You have plenty of that. Over time you will need to address that by replacing AC type of various squadrons but that is a complete other topic and I will go into that much later.

So any Target Set you select will be influenced by these constraints. This is therefore no simple matter to make this selection. You also have to be considering the long view over time in front of you. In order to stay on track with what ever Strategic Pathway you have determined to follow you must always consider the following questions among others. Is this target set part of your primary Strategic Pathway? Is it detracting you away from your primary path? Are the conditions of your assets and the overall Theater configuration or situation appropriate to select this target at this time? Do you have enough assets to attack more than just that target at that range? What do you have to fly through to get there and back? How exposed to Luftwaffe interception is your Strike Force once over the continent on the way to and from that target?


As you will see as you go through this brief description of these basic phases that there is a lot of organization, planning and preparation involved in bringing together an effective Strategic Strike. These are all important questions that must be answered if you hope to be successful. My measure of success is basically how much damage did I deliver to German Industry at what cost to my forces? So let’s look a bit deeper into some of these.

Is this target or target set part of your Primary Strategic Pathway?

As you look out across the map of Europe and the Mediterranean you should readily realize that this is the quintessential “Target Rich Environment” often spoken of. There are literally hundreds of targets under many categories to choose from. Your time is not unlimited and every day you do not destroy German Industry it rebuilds itself. And it does so to your detriment. So you have to choose your targets wisely. Your counterpart that you represent in this game, Ira Eaker and his staff, developed what was known as “Point Blank”. This was a list of the 75 Strategic Targets that had been determined necessary to be destroyed in order to cripple German Industry. This is what you are attempting to build here, your Point Blank list. However you don’t necessarily need to build the entire list up front. The idea is choose your Strategic Pathway and follow it to Victory.

The assumption is that by this time you have selected your pathway. What you must do each and every time you begin to build another days operations is insure that those targets selected for your Primary Strategic Strikes are part of the pathway you have selected. If you don’t do this you may quickly find yourself all over the map chiseling away at little bits and pieces of this massive German Industrial complex and having little effect.


Are the conditions of your assets and the overall Theater configuration or situation appropriate to select this Target or Target Set at this time?


The idea here is, do you have the carrying capacity, the escort range and escort concentration and duration capability, the overall regional force saturation level to allow you to reach, strike and heavily damage and then return from this target? With the added caveat of “And not get a Whoopin”?. A very blunt example of this question is: The date is 8/25/43, is targeting critical industrial facilities in Berlin appropriate? You have what, 8+ B-17F Bomb Groups maybe with a total force of 250-300 Bombers that have the ability to reach Berlin? But your only hopes of an escort is basically from England to the eastern border of France will be your Fighter Groups, and then from there to Berlin and back to eastern France will be the Luftwaffe performing escort duty. Your selection must be something that can be attacked and heavily damaged with low expectations of losses in doing so. Therefore selecting a critical target in Berlin at this time is inappropriate.


Do you have enough assets to attack more than just this target?

This is a fundamental question as it determines the basic configuration of your Strike. How would you determine if you have enough for only this one Primary target or others? Well you need to have a solid escort of your fighters all the way to and from the target. If due to the range you will have to spread out your fighters across the duration of the flight to and from the target once in Indian Country and use the greater proportion of your Fighter Groups to do so, then you are therefore most likely limited to only that one target. This means you are going to have to build a Strike to run a Gauntlet.

In this configuration the general strategy is Strength in Numbers. Which means you will be massing your Heavy Bombers and utilizing most all of your Fighter Groups for just this one strike. This means you will be the one central focal point of the entire strength of the Luftwaffe. I would really not recommend this at the early stages of the campaign. At most you are only going to be able to put up about 300 Heavy Bombers and maintain an escort level of about < 50 Fighters at any given time throughout the entire duration of the mission. This is extremely costly in Fighters, Bombers and Pilots. A strategy I would never recommend unless under the most dire need.

So selecting a target at long range early in the campaign is really not an option. For this reason alone I select targets fairly close which are those in the western most region of the continent. Here your missions will be fairly short durations of only a few hours at most at ranges of mostly < 200 miles. This means that you can utilize most of your fighters for at least some role in your Strike. You will also be able to include your Tactical Bombing forces which will help you spread out the Luftwaffe interception.

What do you have to fly through or over to get to and from the target?

The cardinal rule of “if you fly over it, it has guns and it will shoot at you” applies here. The only facility you actually want to fly over should be the Primary Target. Flying over other facilities exposes your forces to Flak. This should be avoided at all times when possible. The Axis has several Rail Flak units which possess high levels of larger caliber AA. These should be avoided unless it is absolutely necessary to either attack the target they are defending or a target near them. Flying over Rail Flak units is always costly. It is not a question of “if” but rather “how much” will be lost doing so.

Losses to these units and other large caliber Flak at other facilities is not always readily apparent. Flying over facilities unnecessarily typically causes the “Creeping Death” to occur to AC that do so. When your forces are attacked by Flak you will most likely get messages saying “AC damaged by Flak” just after the Flak attack. This most always leads to the results of the Creeping Death with “Damaged Aircraft Crashes” message to flash from that Group later on in the mission. If your AC are flying at 20,000 feet or higher for example the only Flak that can reach you is large caliber, such as 88mm Flak or larger. This is extremely deadly. There are Flak units that have some of the 128mm Flak which is extremely deadly up to 32,000 feet.

Ok… I want to make a point here. Yes your AC can fly at this altitude and above so you could avoid Flak altogether. However to paraphrase Ira Eaker, one of the original CO’s of the Allied Air Forces in Europe, when asked the question of why he did not just have his Heavy Bombers fly at such great altitudes and avoid the Flak altogether. His reply, “It puts extreme wear on the airframes, equipment and the crews to fly at those altitudes for sustained periods of time and our losses to such activities would soon outnumber our losses to the Luftwaffe and Flak combined”.

Also, IMHO, doing so is what I consider “Ahistorical” and “Gaming the Game” both of which I prefer not to do to any great extent if I can avoid it. So please don’t post replies here about how you can game the game and get mondo results because remember as always.. this is the “KayBay Way”…..

So you have to pay attention to the path you would have to take to the target when you are making your selections. Many targets are not closely clustered with others and you can plot a path to them and away from them without having to fly over other facilities. And a word to the wise, DO NOT fly over ground forces. These formations are basically a Division. Armored and Mechanized ground forces have hundreds of large caliber AA and this can be quite costly doing so. At any rate you have several Waypoints you can use to plot a course to and from targets. My advice is to use them. Otherwise you should just let the AI run your campaign for you. If that is your strategy you shouldn’t be reading this. You’re just wasting your time here.


How exposed to Luftwaffe interception is your Strike Force once over the continent on the way to and from that target?

The idea here is that early in the campaign going after targets that are at long range exposes you to large numbers of Luftwaffe assets over a long duration of time. If in the choosing of a target with respect to other targets for that day you create this situation then you can expect heavy losses. This is where your Situational Awareness comes in to play. IE: Do you know where the majority of Luftwaffe AC are operating from that can perform daylight interceptions and are you placing your strike force into a high level of exposure to this by selecting a particular target or path to or from it?

As I have stated earlier you need to disperse the Luftwaffe response to your operations. However you don’t want to disperse your forces so far apart in doing so that you now expose a group or a strike force into high exposure to a concentrated and prolonged engagement with the Luftwaffe. This is where your Tactical Air Force, Fighter Bomber and Fighter forces can be utilized to disperse the Luftwaffe even in a relatively small area so as to prevent one particular Group from being focused on.

This is by no means everything about Target Selection you need to consider. It is however a fairly substantial start.

Reconnaissance Phase

The quintessential phrase that should be considered here is “If you can’t find it… you can’t bomb it”. Recon is one of the most simple operations to carry out and one of the most fundamental requirements in all of your operations and at the same time it is also one of the most overlooked and misunderstood features in many players campaigns.

Reconnaissance is so much more than simply knowing where the Target is. It is much more about being able to actually locate and identify the target than anything else. You must consider that the various factories and facilities are not just standing all by themselves surrounded by farm and grass lands. Where you can see them from a hundred miles away when at 24,000 feet. They are actually for the most part surrounded by other structures that may look very similar to them. It is difficult to actually be able to identify a particular Target structure and differentiate it from other structures around it. This is why having the most current Recon on a target is vital to your Strike Force to being able to actually locate and identify it.

There is also the weather to consider. For the most part you will be dealing with bad weather, or cloudy and overcast conditions throughout the entire campaign. Bad weather conditions make it very difficult to locate and identify a target. The older your Recon is for that target the more likely you are to not locate it or even misidentify it and bomb Aunt Gertrude’s Bakery instead. If your Strike Force fails to locate the target they will go on to the Secondary target. However if they misidentify the target and bomb it they will report what ever damage they did to the wrong target as damage to the actual target. You will never know you missed it unless you run damage assessment Recon after the strike.

Having recon of a target that is 1 day old or less is important with respect to your Strike locating, identifying and damaging the target. It doesn’t matter if your Strike is Heavy Bombers, Tactical Bombers, Fighter Bombers, etc… What matters is the age of your recon. You can get same day pre strike recon if your Strike is run later in the day. However if your Recon mission fails to locate and photograph the target and return successfully before your Strike launches then they are going on what ever the current Recon status of the target is. And there is NO Recall in this game. So I strongly recommend previous day Recon for your Primary Strategic Targets.

I will discuss the various types of Recon and ways in which you can setup Recon missions later when we get to the example portion.


Strike Preparation Phase

Just to get you off on the right track, this is by no means fueling your AC and loading them with bombs. This is all those steps taken days or even weeks prior to Strike Day to allow you a high probability of success. This starts with moving Squadrons and Groups to the appropriate Airfields to be able to operate from to carry out the operations. It ends with your coordinated array of various Tactical and Strategic Strikes as well as Fighter Sweeps and Patrols and Fighter Bomber operations on various preparatory intermediate targets. With a lot of other tasks in between.

The appropriate questions to be considered are for the most part as follows. Are all my Fighter and Bomber Groups operating out of the appropriate Airfields to reach their operational targets or to perform their Primary missions? Are they up to acceptable numbers of operational AC? Are the Pilots and Crews at acceptable Morale, Fatigue and Experience levels to fly their missions? Are there any intermediate targets that need to be dealt with in order to promote the maximum chance of success of the Primary missions? What is the weather conditions and forecast for the various Target areas?

So let’s take a closer look at some of the more pertinent questions here.


Are all my Fighter and Bomber Groups operating out of the appropriate Airfields to reach their operational targets or to perform their Primary missions?

I am not even advocating that you should be moving your Air Groups around every other day. If that is what you are thinking right now then…(Spoken in the voice of Foghorn Leghorn) “Ah say there Bwoy… pay attention to me when I’m talking to ya!”. The point here being that you should by now have done your homework and selected your Primary Strategic Pathway. You should have some formulation of your Point Blank target list. You should therefore also have some idea as to where your targets are and where you are going to want to be launching your Strikes from for some time to come. You then need to plan out what Groups are going to operate out of what Airfields. Your Groups should be posted based on their relative range capabilities. IE: shorter ranged AC should be in the most forward bases of their Commands and the longer ranged AC should be to the rear bases of their commands. I am stating this very simplistically here but the basic idea is sound. If you just start off with the default base postings of all your groups I would highly recommend you reassess your strategy and make some moves.


Are all my Fighter and Bomber Groups up to acceptable numbers of operational AC?

Using Air Groups that are heavily depleted is unwise. Remember there is strength in numbers and this is a sound doctrine to work with all throughout your campaign. A Heavy Bomber Group typically has 32 AC in it. This is for both the B-17 and B-24 variants. These comprise the backbone of your Daylight Strategic Forces. Fighter Groups typically have 48 AC (This is for the USAAF Fighter Groups) but depending upon Theater and AC type may be broken down into 16 AC Squadrons or 20-24 AC RAF Fighter Groups. Yes there are many exceptions so lets don’t get nit picky here, it just serves to derail the discussion and it’s primary purpose.

Checking the Group or Squadron Detail page you will find how many AC are Ready, how many are in Maintenance and how many may be held in Reserve for a particular Group or Squadron. This “Reserve” is not to be confused with the overall Force Pool Reserve which may hold hundreds of AC. I am speaking of only those actually assigned to a particular Group or Squadron that are being held in Reserve.

The point being made here is that if, for example, the Fighter Group that has a full capacity of 24 AC but only has 14 Ready to fly a mission on a given day and 10 AC in Maintenance (IE: Being repaired from Battle Damage) is IMO Depleted. This unit should not be flown unless under dire circumstances. The same goes for your Bomber Groups. If the full capacity of a Bomber Groups is 32 and a Group has 17 Ready, 7 in Maintenance and 8 in Reserve, this Group is IMO Depleted and should not be flown unless absolutely necessary.

You need to allow Groups and Squadrons in this situation to rebuild and get much closer to full strength before you start working them in combat. This is why this is part of your Strike Preparation Phase. You must prepare a large enough overall force to allow you to strike and heavily damage your selected targets in your Strategic Pathway.

Are the Pilots and Crews at acceptable Morale, Fatigue and Experience levels to fly their missions?

Groups and Squadrons that fall into the “Depleted” category are typically also exhibiting low Morale and / or high Fatigue. I will NEVER fly a Group or Squadron unless Morale ≥ 50%. Even then only if they are really needed. Crews with low Morale have a high rate of losses, a low rate of locating and identifying the target and a low rate of damaging the target due to high inaccuracy. Your Crews will rebuild 5 points of Morale each day of resting. You must continually monitor Morale of your Groups and Squadrons and rotate them in and out of combat so as to maintain a high Morale. Fatigue has similar effects but doesn’t accumulate as quickly. Fatigue accumulates from continuous days of combat and can only be reduced by standing down and resting. Same as Morale so you need to pay attention to these or pay the price.

As for Experience, the higher the Experience level of a Group or Squadron is the better they perform in all categories. This can be heavily affected by Morale and Fatigue. Surviving a Mission increases Experience. If you want to build Experience then you need to carefully select and build a Groups’ Mission and Role to promote survival. I place only the most experienced Crews in Lead Roles as this will facilitate locating and identifying targets.

A word to the wise here….. Low Experience, High Fatigue, Low Morale and Old Recon = Hitting Aunt Gurtrude’s Bakery and thinking it was Berlin Ball Bearing accompanied with heavy losses.

Are there any intermediate targets that need to be dealt with in order to promote the maximum chance of success of the Primary missions?

This is huge and second only to that of moving Groups and Squadrons to more appropriate Airfields. This involves Radar sites, Enemy Airfields and any targets other than the Primary Strategic Strike Targets. These other targets are any target selected other than the Primary for the purpose of dispersing the Luftwaffe intercept. These targets may have to be dealt with days prior to the actual Primary Strategic Strike. For example if you don’t want the Luftwaffe warming up at the same time you are you need to deal with their Radar sites that have operational areas extending out to near and over your Airfields and paths of approach to the enemy coast.

These also include Airfields with active Daylight Interceptor squadrons. You can run Sweeps to destroy AC on the ground, damage the Airfields and if you work out some details with timing you can kill Pilots on the ground warming up to take off to intercept your Bombing forces. These are also other targets you will be attacking such as Rail centers or other facilities to disperse the interceptors across a larger region than just your Primary Strikes. These can also be Fighter Patrols you can draw interceptors to where you can gain localized air superiority and destroy Luftwaffe assets in the air. These are just a few examples of what these intermediate preparatory targets can be.

Strike Execution Phase

This is quite simply the execution of your Primary Strikes as well as any other supporting strikes or missions. This is the Main Course as it were. During this phase there is not a lot for you to do other than sit back and watch your operations unfold. I would however recommend that you take notes as your missions run their course. You can learn many vital details about what enemy units are based where as well as what types of AC they are operating. You can also glean much about their Order of Battle by paying attention. Be aware that the Fog of War is active during this phase. Not every message that pops up is accurate. Although there will be some truth to them all.

I want to take a moment to explain a couple things here that I am not quite sure that everybody understands. If you already understand this please don’t take offense but please realize that not everybody may be aware as you are. There are two things I consistently see misunderstood or completely overlooked or even unknown. These are the concepts of “Fog of War” and “Order of Battle”.

Fog of War
Fog or War is very much more than not being able to see your enemy. This includes things such as misinterpretation of results, which is more likely the significant majority of its effect on your campaign. This can be expressed in your campaign as many things. Here are a few of the more obvious ones. AC Destroyed claims by your gunners or Fighters. Target facilities bombed and the damage level inflicted as interpreted by your Strike Forces or your Recon units. Type and numbers of enemy AC encountered in aerial combat or observed at Airfields. Target facility and it’s location, (yeah, your Recon or your Strike Force can actually misidentify some ground feature as a particular target facility and your recon will be updated as such and you may never know it even after you have bombed it). As your campaign unfolds you may observe other effects of Fog of War. The point being here is, never absolutely trust any Recon or observation by any of your forces. I would always advise an attitude of trepidation when carrying out your campaign.

Order of Battle
Order of Battle is much more than a TOE. Although it is built around one. TOE is not a really big toe…. It is a Table of Equipment which includes all the various units and equipment of a military force. The Order of Battle is the What, When, Where, How and Why of the method in which a military force employs the men and material of a TOE to wage war. It is how their various types of units are equipped and organized and how they actually go to battle against you. To be able to see and understand an enemies Order of Battle is to be able to find it’s strengths and weaknesses in Strategic and Tactical doctrine as well as men and material and to be enabled to develop your own Order of Battle tailored for victory against that enemy. This is, more simply put, the ability to accurately predict what your enemy will do with what in a given situation and counter and overcome it.


Post Strike Assessment Phase

This phase is much more than just a Damage Assessment Phase. The point here being that you will be doing much more than operating Recon missions to the various targets you have attacked to assess your effectiveness. You will also be looking at the various facts and figures of your losses as well as that of the enemy. There is much more than just Recon here. This phase is where you assess what you accomplished at what cost. You must put your observations from every previous phase together and adapt for the next set of operations.

If you paid attention in earlier phases to how the enemy intercepted what forces and what you both did well and poorly etc…, you can use this to modify future operations to enhance your success and minimize your losses. This will help you to develop those new tactics and strategies needed as both your forces evolve as well as the overall campaign. You must be able to recognize changes that occur and how they affect your campaign. Then react to it with adaptations.

You need to be looking at changes in Morale, Experience and Fatigue of your crews for example. You must determine how to overcome reductions in Morale and increases in Fatigue and still be able to operate effectively in destroying German Industry. You must learn how to determine when the weather is acceptable or prohibitive to your various operations and then again how to adapt and maintain operational effectiveness.


Conclusion

What I have done here is to lay out a very generalized sequence of tasks or phases to follow to create Operational Strikes against German Industry. As your campaign unfolds you will quickly be performing each of these tasks or phases associated with several operational targets each day of your campaign. Each of which may be a Primary Target of your major Strategic Pathway or one of a supporting target for a Primary or intermediate or preparatory target. Remember you have command of two overall composite Air Forces, one in the ETO and one in the MTO. Some of the operations you develop may have one Air Force supporting another in a different theater of operations. This would depend on your Strategic Pathway and your Order of Battle.

What ever you choose it is my most sincere hope that you enjoy this fantastic game as much as I have over the years.

Remember the point of playing a “Game” is… To Have Fun!

KayBay


_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 52
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 5/19/2012 6:29:53 PM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Greetings <S>

I have long been working on an "Example" to describe and demonstrate the concepts presented in the previous post. It will take me a few more weeks or perhaps longer to finish it if Life continues to interrupt, but it goes into much more detail with respect to each of the areas mentioned.

Please always keep in mind that I am in no way trying to say that my way of playing this game is the only way or the best way.. but "The KayBay Way".

In the worst case scenario I hope those that disagree with me get a good laugh at me rather than getting upset or frustrated with me.

Later,
KayBay

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 53
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 5/20/2012 12:14:59 PM   
mikkey


Posts: 838
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
thanks kaybayray, another excellent information!

_____________________________


(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 54
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 9/20/2012 9:25:05 PM   
MOrganfour

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/20/2012
Status: offline
Hi Kaybay,

Just want to thank you for your helpful and detailed explanations in the above threads! You've really given me plenty to think about in terms of using the BC as my main strike force during '43.

I've also found that sending out 2-3 single squadron mosquito bombing raids to northern and sourthern targets very early on in the evening (staggered over 1800-1900) draws up quite alot of NF's and they struggle to catch them, I've had more Mosi losses to flak than NFs.

Using your plan of FS's during the daytime I've plotted all the enemy NF bases so to understand which had the most NF's i used the above tactic to work out which routes would bring up the most NF's, using a few nights of that tactic I've now been stacking Mosi NF's from 500 to 12k/14k feet over their heads from 11pm adding 3-4 every 30mins and coming up with some very impressive results.

I'm often knocking out 10+ on average and only taking minor flak related casualties on dark nights. Whats more important is that I'm giving 'Jerry' hell! :D

(in reply to mikkey)
Post #: 55
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 2/24/2013 8:31:19 PM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Greetings !! <S> !

I am currently working on my next post which is a walk through of what I have described in my last post using an "Example" set of Strategic Targets to work with. My goal is to show how the concepts I described in my last post actually can be put to use in the game around a particular set of Strategic Targets that will be the focus of a single days Strike Missions. I have the rough draft done and the base screenshots taken but am working to finesse the overall post for submission.

The problem is I just have so little free time. Life has become very busy these past few years. I don't want to state an estimate because every time I come up with one things get in the way and weeks have gone by before I have any time to work on this.

I am very pleased with the kind responses you all have given me and especially for those that my thoughts have helped you play this fantastic game. This is a really hard game to play well but I love a challenge so I keep working at it. I hope you all are enjoying it as much as I have been.

Hopefully I will be returning soon with another installment.

Regards,

KayBay <S> !

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to MOrganfour)
Post #: 56
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 2/25/2013 12:01:54 AM   
warshipbuilder


Posts: 172
Joined: 2/23/2013
From: C-eh-n-eh-d-eh
Status: offline
Hi KayBay,

As a complete noob to the game, I really appreciate you "how-to" posts. Reading the manual, it hints at letting your staff plan your recon missions. No fun in that, at what height do you usually send your recon planes in? Thanks.

_____________________________

Any ship can be a minesweeper, once.

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 57
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 2/25/2013 2:27:26 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Hey Warshipbuilder ! <S> Sir !

Thank you Sir, I wouldn't call my posts a "How To" as following my advice may very well lead to your Doom. This is just The KayBay Way... very good some times... just plain crazy others!

When it comes to recon I want crisp sharp no blur images with a high level of detail so that there is no confusion so I therefore typically fly Recon at 400 feet. Yes I lose Recon Birds doing so, but remember... its the KayBay Way!

I was running some tests on continuous run and I watched in horror as the AI Allied commander sent recon out over the target at 38,000 feet at 0340. Yeah I bet they got great Recon shots with that. I would prefer being able to set the altitude for each way point but that is a level of sophistication not yet available.

Later,
KayBay

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to warshipbuilder)
Post #: 58
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 2/25/2013 2:35:07 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Primary Strategic Operations Example

First off I would like to beg forgiveness for the quality of the screenshots I am posting. I have worked considerably to learn how to get better quality shots prepared to post but nothing seems to have worked. I have very new software but it all seems worse than the clunky programs I have used in the past and the quality is very lacking IMHO considering the level of sophistication that the creators of the software purport.

So grab a beer or a cup of Tea or Coffee, make yourself comfortable and get your specs on because it begins now.

On the screenshot is displayed the Primary Daylight Strategic Targets for today’s missions in the ETO. Recall I am following a Power & Transportation Pathway in my overall daylight operations in both the ETO and MTO. In my campaign this is denoted as Operation Voltaic. Just a note, this works well with both the Overlord and the Avalanche targeting constraints of mandatory targeting.

The three targets are each Power targets. The target to the farthest Northeast is Interbrabant and is 149 miles from the Rally Point of that strike. The Recon is 1 Day old so it is current so you will have the best chances of locating and striking the target. The target in the middle to the Southeast is Mazingarbe Electric and is 91 miles from the Rally Point of the strike. The Recon is also 1 Day old so it is up to date. The target in the South is Oissel Electric which is 116 miles from the Rally point of the strike. The Recon is 3 Days old and is no longer current. In order to have the best chances to locate and strike the target you will need to run a Recon mission on this target prior to the strike. We will talk about that a bit later.

All of these targets are well within your current Escort ranges for your better AC. These are AC like P-47’s and Spit IX’s which should be available to you. So you can build fully escorted strikes to each of these targets. However you don’t have many Heavy Bomb Groups nor Fighter Escort Groups at this time. So your strikes will each be rather small. Unless you want to combine them into only one overall force. If you do that then you are minimizing how many targets you can hit over time. So to compensate for small numbers I disperse my Primary Strikes to present a front such that I can disperse the interception and attempt to prevent the Luftwaffe from concentrating the significant proportion of available resources on any one area.

What you are seeing at this point is only the plots of the Primary missions. I will be building other Secondary Strikes, Fighter Sweeps and Patrols as well as Pre-Emptive Strikes to support these with respect to dispersing the interception of the Luftwaffe and disrupting Early Warning assets that may affect the success of the Primary Strategic missions. So please be patient as I work my way through all of this because there is a lot to go through just on the “First Pass” level to build a solid plan of attack for the this target set.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by kaybayray -- 2/25/2013 2:56:05 AM >


_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 59
RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine - 2/25/2013 2:37:23 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 413
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Early Warning Interdiction
As you can see in this screenshot, which includes the detection range rings of the various German Radar sites, that some of them extend out into and even across the Channel. In some cases they even extend over some of your Airfields. Unless you want the Luftwaffe to be aware of your missions as soon as they lift off then you need to deal with at least a few of these installations.


On the screenshot I point out 6 Radar range rings associated with radar sites currently operational that you really need to shut down at this time with Yellow arrows. I also mark with Green arrows a bit to the West a couple more you really should consider also shutting down for future operations. There are also a couple more to the East you should consider suppressing as well and some that currently are out of action from previous operations, but I will not discuss those here. For the most part suppressing most other Radar sites further inland will not have significant effect as by the time your forces enter those areas they are over the continent and detectable by many other assets.


You should continuously monitor all radar sites with operational ranges that extend out over the channel and over your Airfields and Rally Points. Remember your Recon may not be completely accurate depending upon the altitude you run your Recon missions at and the effects of Fog of War. Radar sites repair at 5 damage repaired per day and are operationally effective with a status of ≥ 50%. So you will want to keep them well below that and to do so you will be paying many return visits to them.


I have also enclosed in colored rings the individual Radar site associated with each of these range rings. As with the arrows the Yellow indicate those necessary to shut down for your current Primary missions and those in Green indicate those you should consider shutting down for future operations. So now let’s look at our Recon Status of each of these facilities. Because typically Weather will be a big problem and if you hope to actually find and strike a target on any given day you really need current Recon on every single target. The smaller the target facility, the more difficult it is to locate it, identify it and actually do damage to it.

Looking from East to West at each of our Radar targets we can see what our current Recon status is. So we have Woensdrecht with Recon = 59 days. Bryas Sud with Recon = 3 days. Rosieres-en-Santerre with Recon = 60 days. Berck-sur-Mer with Recon = 60 days. Drucat with Recon = 44 days. Finally we have Octeville with Recon = 49 days. So as you can see we have some work to do to prepare for our Primary Strategic Strikes.


Radar sites are very small and easy to miss. Bad weather only magnifies this problem. Which is further magnified by the altitude of either your Recon mission or your Strike mission to suppress the Radar site. So we need to build a few Recon missions. Then we need to follow them up with Strikes to each of these Radar sites. As I have stated before…. there are many ways to choke a dog. Next we will explore some of those with respect to running Recon and Strikes to these Radar sites.


As you can see we have some very important things to do before we can launch our Primary missions. We have to complete Recon to one of our Primary Targets. However by the time Strike Day arrives the Recon for the other two will be out of date as well. So we need to coordinate obtaining Recon from all three such that we have intervened with all the Radar sites we want, plus all the Secondary and Distraction targets all to have current Recon for Strike Day. This is starting to snowball isn’t it? This is why you must plan things out far in advance. The creators and modifiers of this game gave you many tools to use to enable you to do so. Use them wisely and often.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by kaybayray -- 2/25/2013 2:55:42 AM >


_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Gary Grigsby's Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich >> The War Room >> RE: KayBay's Allied Strategic & Tactical Doctrine Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.156