41st Division

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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cantona2
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41st Division

Post by cantona2 »

Wasn't it restricted after Patch 1? If so then why is it under Pacific Fleet in my PBEM game?
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Swayin
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RE: 41st Division

Post by Swayin »

It just got slaughtered trying to take Wake back in mine.
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jb123
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RE: 41st Division

Post by jb123 »

yeah, i'm pissed about th 41st div too... 1300 pps for a half strength unit...
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SuluSea
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RE: 41st Division

Post by SuluSea »

Yeah, I was surprised to have to pay PPs to move the unit as well. Wondering what changed. Price is steep but I'll find a way to manage it.[:'(] 
 
Interesting notes on the 41st ID here.
 
ImageIn 1940, the 41st Infantry Division was inducted into Federal service for WWII. It became the first American Division sent overseas after Pearl Harbor, the first American Division trained in Jungle Warfare. It spent 45 months overseas (longer than any other Division), and earned the title of "Jungleers". The unit deactivated in 1945 in Kure, Japan. As the international situation worsened in the 1930's, the intensity and urgency of training in the 41st Division increased. In 1937, the Division paired with the US 3rd Division for Corps Maneuvers at Fort Lewis. The 1940 summer camp at Fort Lewis witnessed the Division training with maneuvers at regimental level. One month after annual training in 1940, the 41st Division, along with the 249th Coast Artillery and State Headquarters, was called to active service. During the 14 months prior to the beginning of the World War II, the Division underwent intensive combat-type training and was equipped with the latest, most modern equipment available. By December 7, 1941, the 41st Division was ready. It continued the series of "firsts" by being the first United States Division to deploy to the South Pacific. The 41st Division first stopped at Australia for even more training and then proceeded to New Guinea. This time, the 41st Division became the first American division to meet the Imperial Japanese Forces, not in defense, but in an offensive operation. Places with the strange names of Buna, Gona, Sanananda, and Salamaua became Oregonian battlegrounds in a war with an enemy during which no quarter was given or taken. The Division fought for 76 continuous days in combat against the Japanese at Salamaua. For 26 days only canned "C" rations were available. At the end of this campaign, Tokyo Rose, in her propaganda broadcasts, referred to the 41st as the "Butcher Division" because, among all the records established by the 41st, it established a record for taking the least number of Japanese prisoners-of-war in the entire Pacific theatre. This was the result of an incident early during the New Guinea campaign when the bodies of captured American soldiers were found to have been dismembered by their captors and the meat later discovered amongst Japanese prisoners carefully wrapped in large green leaves for preservation. After the New Guinea campaign, the 41st Division returned to Australia for rest and re-equipping. In a few weeks, the Division then made another thrust to the north. Hollandia and Aitape, coastal communities on New Guinea's eastern coast fell, along with the islands of Wakde and Biak. The road continued into the Philippines where more bitter fighting occurred at Palawan, Zamboanga, and the Sulu Archipelago. After the fall of the Philippines, the Division began training for the attack on Japan itself, but surrender came first. The Division did move to Japan where it occupied the island of Honshu for a few months. Soon after, it was deactivated and the men returned home.
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joey
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RE: 41st Division

Post by joey »

You can use the scenario editor and change it back to zero. I did with all the divisions that were actually deployed in the Pacfic. Having to the pay PPs does nothing for the game.
Boozecamp
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RE: 41st Division

Post by Boozecamp »

Trying to reassign the 41st to SWPac on its historical schedule absolutely guts your PPs.  Wonder if future versions could have a historical command change option, where units are change HQs as they did historically.  Sort of like PacWar.  
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P.Hausser
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RE: 41st Division

Post by P.Hausser »

*** QUESTION

If the 41st was in the field while patch was applied, will its command then be changed or do it only change for nod deployed units ?
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Q-Ball
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RE: 41st Division

Post by Q-Ball »

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Yeah, I was surprised to have to pay PPs to move the unit as well. Wondering what changed. Price is steep but I'll find a way to manage it.[:'(] 

Interesting notes on the 41st ID here.

SuluSea, interesting post. That shoulder patch isn't right though. The correct one is my avatar, and my autosig honors a real member of the 41st Division.

Go 41st!
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oldman45
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RE: 41st Division

Post by oldman45 »

My question is, should this be on the list for the next patch, 41st div be assigned to the SW pac so we don't have to use PP?
Andy Mac
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RE: 41st Division

Post by Andy Mac »

The change to 41st was deliberate it didnt go overseas until March 42 you need to pay PP's to get it released you can get it cheap by buying it early while its weak or wait and pay full price
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RE: 41st Division

Post by Andy Mac »

The alternative we considered was have it arrive on map in March but this way you have the choice
mjk428
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RE: 41st Division

Post by mjk428 »

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

The change to 41st was deliberate it didnt go overseas until March 42 you need to pay PP's to get it released you can get it cheap by buying it early while its weak or wait and pay full price

How many Jap units are able to be used before they were historically?

How about this: Lets not screw up AE, the same way WitP was, just to appeal to PBEM players. Give PBEM players their own "play balanced" scenario instead needlessly binding the hands of the majority of players that play against the AI.

If the Japs had taken Canton and were raiding Christmas Island the 41st would have been thrown into the breach if needed. It's a weak division at the start, and it pays to let it strengthen before using it, BUT the option to use it in its weakened state shouldn't cost PPs. The US successfully countered every move the Japs made in their direction from '42 on. Had you delayed its arrival I'd have no complaints, but I need PPs to change base HQs and other housekeeping chores. All those Australian (R) bases, that quickly became SWPAC, and switched automatically in PacWar.

If for some odd reason it's unacceptable to have PBEM focused scenarios then a Grand Campaign that starts later (March, April or May) would go a long way towards resolving these early issues. As it stands now, there just aren't enough PPs to buy everything so it can be properly assigned by April '42.
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P.Hausser
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RE: 41st Division

Post by P.Hausser »

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

*** QUESTION

If the 41st was in the field while patch was applied, will its command then be changed or do it only change for nod deployed units ?

Anyone ?
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Richard III
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RE: 41st Division

Post by Richard III »

ORIGINAL: mjk428

How about this: Lets not screw up AE, the same way WitP was, just to appeal to PBEM players. Give PBEM players their own "play balanced" scenario instead needlessly binding the hands of the majority of players that play against the AI.

I completely concur, it seems that in AE the US AI only player gets in the neck once more.

In relationship to WITP, the PP system is more costly across the board and with LCU`s siting in many more multiple Areas and HQ`s to access and move units, you quickly run out of PP`s. I can`t even imagine what it costs to convert PM to SWP .... As a simple example, it costs 134 PP`s to reassign the Gordon Highlanders Battn. out of Singapore !! I could move an entire Ausse Brigade for less in WITP. The P-40`s in the Phillipines are restricted, before you could finesse one of them out for some heavy PP`s, no more it seems. Since the US heavy bombers got nerfed in WITP, I don`t even bother to bring them out.

In three starts of the GC, in 2 of them the KB Death Star sat off Pearl for 3 days hammering the ships and AC and base, hugh losses in ships and AC, far past WITP and history, that should be an " ahistorical option choice" in setup, not a default IMHO.

In turn 1 the POW and Repulse are already on their way North to be sunk, no player choice anymore. Not good to remove players historical options. Speaking of that what happened to the " Historical" sub war switch in the start menus ? Now the R and I-Boats attack the merchant fleet off the West Coast by default and their isn`t enough escorts available for merchant convoy`s. Bad news that ahistorical game design choice. Sub mining the Manila bay ship channel ??? Slows the redeployment of the ships there by 24 hours and they get killed by those super duper 1000 mile + Betty`s.

In WITP, as was historicaly true, the US had 2 high quality regular Army Divisions at Pearl on Dec. 7, the 24th. and 25th. now you get 4 Rgts ?? which it seems can`t be split..?? as you could the WITP Divs. I could go on but don`t want to rant., but this is not what I expected for $100 bucks. The new waypoint system is great, as is the seeming working LCU Loading routines

I realize that a lot of guys devoted lots of free time to AE, but some of the design choices really impact the US AI player above WITP, and that tilting toward the Japanese killed WITP itself for me.
“History would be a wonderful thing – if it were only true.”

¯ Leo Tolstoy
Arimus
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RE: 41st Division

Post by Arimus »

The KB could have probable staid around Pearl for another day, although some have said the carriers were out of munitions and others have said they were low on fuel.
It mostly seems like speculation. However, I don't think the KB will hang around if you pick historical first turn.

Jap submarines did operate off the West Coast in Dec of 41, so what you saw in WITP was ahistorical, not historical.

PP's for the 41st does not makes sense to me, given its deployment, but unless your a PBEM player, I wouldn't waste your time with the forum, just mod it.

In fact, based on the feedback I have seen from the dev team, I would say that the GC is pretty much set in stone.

One response was "Don't like it? make a mod."
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Sheytan
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RE: 41st Division

Post by Sheytan »

Ugh, I doubt id take any prisoners as well if I discovered the enemy was actually eating my comrades.
ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Yeah, I was surprised to have to pay PPs to move the unit as well. Wondering what changed. Price is steep but I'll find a way to manage it.[:'(] 

Interesting notes on the 41st ID here.
ImageIn 1940, the 41st Infantry Division was inducted into Federal service for WWII. It became the first American Division sent overseas after Pearl Harbor, the first American Division trained in Jungle Warfare. It spent 45 months overseas (longer than any other Division), and earned the title of "Jungleers". The unit deactivated in 1945 in Kure, Japan. As the international situation worsened in the 1930's, the intensity and urgency of training in the 41st Division increased. In 1937, the Division paired with the US 3rd Division for Corps Maneuvers at Fort Lewis. The 1940 summer camp at Fort Lewis witnessed the Division training with maneuvers at regimental level. One month after annual training in 1940, the 41st Division, along with the 249th Coast Artillery and State Headquarters, was called to active service. During the 14 months prior to the beginning of the World War II, the Division underwent intensive combat-type training and was equipped with the latest, most modern equipment available. By December 7, 1941, the 41st Division was ready. It continued the series of "firsts" by being the first United States Division to deploy to the South Pacific. The 41st Division first stopped at Australia for even more training and then proceeded to New Guinea. This time, the 41st Division became the first American division to meet the Imperial Japanese Forces, not in defense, but in an offensive operation. Places with the strange names of Buna, Gona, Sanananda, and Salamaua became Oregonian battlegrounds in a war with an enemy during which no quarter was given or taken. The Division fought for 76 continuous days in combat against the Japanese at Salamaua. For 26 days only canned "C" rations were available. At the end of this campaign, Tokyo Rose, in her propaganda broadcasts, referred to the 41st as the "Butcher Division" because, among all the records established by the 41st, it established a record for taking the least number of Japanese prisoners-of-war in the entire Pacific theatre. This was the result of an incident early during the New Guinea campaign when the bodies of captured American soldiers were found to have been dismembered by their captors and the meat later discovered amongst Japanese prisoners carefully wrapped in large green leaves for preservation. After the New Guinea campaign, the 41st Division returned to Australia for rest and re-equipping. In a few weeks, the Division then made another thrust to the north. Hollandia and Aitape, coastal communities on New Guinea's eastern coast fell, along with the islands of Wakde and Biak. The road continued into the Philippines where more bitter fighting occurred at Palawan, Zamboanga, and the Sulu Archipelago. After the fall of the Philippines, the Division began training for the attack on Japan itself, but surrender came first. The Division did move to Japan where it occupied the island of Honshu for a few months. Soon after, it was deactivated and the men returned home.
erstad
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RE: 41st Division

Post by erstad »

ORIGINAL: Richard III


I completely concur, it seems that in AE the US AI only player gets in the neck once more.

...
As a simple example, it costs 134 PP`s to reassign the Gordon Highlanders Battn. out of Singapore !!
Not trying to start a flame war, but two quick points
1) Many of the Allied criticisms seem to be that they face historical restrictions. For example, Gordon Highlanders stayed in Singapore and surrendered with the garrison.
2) That said, this should be a non-issue for AI only players as the editor can be easily used to set the political points at whatever level is desired. For that matter, if you subscribe to the "they are my troops and they'll go where I send them!" philosophy, the PPs can be made effectively infinite and there are no restrictions (or the commands could be changed to unrestricted but it's easier to inflate the PPs, unless you also want to get the permanently restricted units)

Marty A
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RE: 41st Division

Post by Marty A »

Always restricted can be changed in editor too. never understand why people play ai complain about pp or numbers of stuff. change it. the ai not care. as for 41 division i think arrive in march better. most other divisions do this. i mean arrive when available not with pps.
mjk428
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RE: 41st Division

Post by mjk428 »

It will also cost 700+ PPs to release one regiment of the Americal Division when it's time to ship it out.

For all those that think AI players should have to create their own game, even though they paid good money for this one from Matrix, explain to me how they can use the frakkin' editor to fix their game when they're several months in. Also, what will happen to their custom game whenever the database gets updated with each patch?
The most historical and detailed order of battle for the Pacific War ever put into a wargame!

You just have to jump through more & more hoops to access it when playing the Allied side.
Marty A
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RE: 41st Division

Post by Marty A »

ORIGINAL: mjk428

It will also cost 700+ PPs to release one regiment of the Americal Division when it's time to ship it out.

For all those that think AI players should have to create their own game, even though they paid good money for this one from Matrix, explain to me how they can use the frakkin' editor to fix their game when they're several months in. Also, what will happen to their custom game whenever the database gets updated with each patch?

Change to status of 41 division will not affect a game in progress either. argument for one side same as other side this case. two of three of americal are not restricted so only have to pay one. not good argument this either. i did not say play ai create own game. i say create own game rather than complain about making game more better for two player.
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