Matrix Games

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No sir...

I thought I was mistaken when I looked at the sub-section setup, for a second, but if you look at these links

http://www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk/transport-universal.htm#plcomd

the Platoon commander's carrier had no MMG (just a box with spare parts and tools for the Vickers, the Platoon Sergeant's carrier had a PIAT only, while each of the 2 Section commander's carriers "carried" a rangefinder only, instead of a Vickers MMG. The carriers of the section commanders also did not have a sufficient amount of men to operate an MMG:

Crew (3 men):
Section commander,
"rangetaker",
driver/mechanic.

The MMG carrier finally carried... guess what... the Vickers and a 4-men crew! *grin*

So, the other 4 carriers carried ammo or alt tools/weapons or even mechanics, but no MMG. So, in this case, my original statement seems to be correct, the author either forgot to mention the 3 other MMG carriers, or he thought mentioning the single MMG carrier would be sufficient to explain the hierarchy of a MMG platoon. Maybe he was even unsure regarding what weapon was assigned to what particular carrier within a given platoon.

Summary: 4 MMGs per platoon.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 9/6/2009 7:11:20 PM

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ORIGINAL: TMO

... each man has (IIRC) 60 rds,

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As a basic load, each man armed with the rifle carried fifty rounds of ammunition in ten chargers of five rounds each. They were carried in one of the two webbing pouches worn by each rifleman. By 1944 the load had doubled to one hundred rounds, but the additional ammunition was earmarked for the Section Bren Gun. Bandoliers, each containing five pockets (10 rounds per pocket) were also used.

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Ammunition wise, each Bren was provided with twenty five magazines, one with the gun and the rest carried in two boxes holding a dozen each. In the Rifle Section the boxes were not taken into action. Instead, each of the six men in the Rifle Group carried two magazines, and each of the three men in the Gun Group carried four. Two magazines could be held in a single webbing pouch. It was quickly found that the only real flaw concerned the magazines, which if loaded to capacity would jam. The maximum load was therefore reduced to twenty eight rounds each, 700 rounds for a full complement of magazines. This was rounded up to 1000 rounds with loose ammunition, carried by its vehicle, or distributed as an extra fifty rounds for each man in the Rifle Group.

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Compiled from the War Establishment for an Infantry Battalion, reference II/233/2, effective 30th April 1943. This organisation was superseded by II/233/3 from 12th November 1944, which incorporated nine amendments made since the Spring of 1943.

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Incidentally the largest number of Bren LMG in a company that I have been able to find was about 30 - one for every three men - mind you this was in Italy and by a battalion of the London Scottish an unit notorious for ignoring official dictates!   

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In the late stages of the war it was not unknown for the section to carry two Brens.

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At full stregth: about 840 officers and men. Combat soldiers (everybody except those in and serving supply depot): about 730. Typical combat strength in Normandy: 500 or 600.

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... At full strength a mortar platoon would have six mortars capable of firing up to about 3,000 yards. The general tactic would be to set them up some way behind the main fighting line and establish an observation post as close to the fighting line as possible; to use either hastily laid field telephone or (less reliably) wireless for communication; and for the man in the observation post to direct the firing. The mortars could be regarded as the battalion's own instant artillery, going everywhere with it, always in its area, always available.

But unlike artillery, mortars were not an accurate weapon. Their bombs would fall anywhere within an oval of about 100 yards long and 50 yards wide. Thus ranging was always difficult and they needed to be employed against a large target, such as some woods, and not a small target, like a house. Each mortar with its crew, ammunition, wireless and telephone sets could be loaded on to a carrier, that is an open-topped, tracked vehicle which could move over rough ground and had some protective armour. A mortar carrier was in fact a Bren machine-gun carrier used for another purpose.

There would normally be about forty-five men including several sergeants in the platoon. ...

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ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

Well, hehe, I stumbled over that book some 5 hrs ago already. But the published pages refer to recce units only, while the interesting parts aren't shown. So I ordered the sucker on Amazon, i wanna know now. lol
While I'm sure the Canadians had Bren carriers, I'm not totally sure whether the Brit. MG Bns had 'em too, now. I can't deny the possibility that the regular carrier platoon of an INF unit could have been employed too, as they used to be the "slaves" within INF units, responsible for transport, medevac, towing stuff. Still, I can't imagine that the MMG units, as heavy weapons support units, often right behind the front line or even in the middle of the shyte (Italy), were using trucks.

BTW: oddly enough, the carrier on the picture I posted has a Rhino insignia, and "AD" above it. Would that refer to the 1st British Armoured Division? Their Rhino used to be a charging one , though. Maybe they borrowed equipment :P

Whatever the case, carriers had been used, for sure.

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ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

The term "MMG" refers to a (Vickers) medium machine gun, right?

@TMO: According to what I've read so far a Rifle section had a rifle group and a gun group, the latter (3 men) being equipped with 1 Bren.
"Bayonetstrength" mentions this too, so an Inf Bn would have had 27 Bren MGs, and an entire Division 243 Brens.
It doesn't look like Inf Bns had Vickers MMGs at their disposal, though. Those were purely divisional assets. Parts/Sections of MG battalions could be attached to Bde's or Bns at the discretion of the Div. Commander.

That said, British Inf Bns were somewhat "underpowered", means they had serious disadvantages in house-to-house fighting throughout Europe, because of the lack of automatic/semi-automatic weapons, thus Inf line units assaulting urban areas could often only advance if they called in tank support, in cases where MMG support wasn't available.
The only submachine gun issued to a rifle section was the one issued to its leader, the corporal.

@Dave - OOB, number of MMGs, range:

• OOB:
  
  http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/weapons/lightweapons/machineguns/vickersmachinegun.htm
  
  

  quote:
  
  www.canadiansoldiers.com
  
  "During the Second World War, machinegun support was again provided by specialist units. Upon mobilization, one machine gun battalion was assigned to each brigade of infantry; by the time the units went into action, only one machine gun battalion was assigned to each Division. Three machine gun companies, with three machine gun platoons of four Vickers guns each, as well as a heavy mortar company, made up the MG battalion.
  
  In Korea, Vickers Guns were assigned directly to the infantry battalions, in a specialist Vickers platoon. "

  
  
  "Divisional MG Battalion 1944-45":
  http://www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk/org-infdivww2.htm
  
  
  alternative Version:
  "Divisional MG (Support) Battalion"
  http://www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk/org-divsptbn.htm .
  
  The latter was a formation with 3 "Support Groups", with each group consisting of 1 MG Coy only, 1 AA company (16 x 20mm Oerlikon?) and 1 Mortar company with only 2 mortar platoons. This setup was rather unusual and disliked by Div. Commanders + troops, it seems.
  
  
• Number of MMGs:
  
  A MG battalion (1943-1946) had 3 MG Coys (with a total of 9 MG platoons) and 1 Mortar Coy (4 platoons). Each Bn had 36 MMGs.
  
  
• Range:
  
  The Vickers MMG had a range of up to 4500 yards (!).
  
  Let me quote the British Small Arms Manual, page 9:
  
  

  quote:
  
  ORIGINAL: "SMALL ARMS MANUAL" by Brigadier J. A. Barlow, S.A.C., The West Yorkshire Regt. and Lt.-Col. R.E.W. Johnson - the London Rifle Brigade. Printed and issued in 1944.
  
  "The Medium Machine-Gun.
  
  Since this weapon is normally mounted on a heavy tripod its accuracy can be relied upon at ranges considerably greater than those attained by the L.M.G. or the rifle. In the case of the Vickers gun this increase in accurate range is enhanced by the fact that special (Mark VIII) ammunition is used which makes it possible to employ the gun in a miniature artillery role at ranges up to 4,500 yards.
  The medium machine gun should, therefore, not be wasted on short-range tasks which can be undertaken with L.M.Gs. (or, even by riflemen), but should be used in bursts of not less than 20 rounds, the length of burst increasing up to about 30 rounds."

  
  
  Note: The owner of this Manual added some interesting notes on the last pages of the manual ("Notes" section), a collection of penetration values for different small arms / calibres.
  
  You can download the manual here: http://www.badongo.com/file/7513521
  
  

  quote:
  
  www.canadiansoldiers.com
  
  "In addition to direct fire, Vickers Guns were often used indirectly; this type of fire was first used in the First World War. During Operation VERITABLE in Feb 1945, Vickers Guns added their fire to the "pepperpot" supporting fire that was used during the largest artillery operation of the Second World War. Vickers Guns had also "thickened" the barrages leading up to the assault on Vimy Ridge in April 1917."

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/weapons/lightweapons/machineguns/vickersmachinegun.htm

Is this (maximum) range of the Vickers rendered in BFTB?

This reminds me of my queries regarding the range of German Inf guns (example: 75mm le IG 18 = 3800 meters, s.IG 33 = 4650 meters - in indirect fire mode), and PoE's query regarding the range of 88mm Flak guns (in direct fire mode - in an AT role).
Are these ranges and fire modes (I almost forgot to include over-calibre AT grenades for the IGs) for the IGs considered in BFTB?