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Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge

 
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Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 1:04:35 PM   
Cougar_DK


Posts: 463
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Hi,

I have been following WiTP and AE for quite some time now and know that a game like AE is a monster grognard game. But there is something within me that want to try it and see for myself.

I have read the other suggestions, both here and at the wargamer, that one should start with UV. But as a person, I like the new toy the most, its important for me that its the best possible model of what it tries to simulate.

So how big is the smallest scenario in AE?
Is there any plans from Matrix and/or scenario designers to add some small beginner scenarios good for learning the system?
Is there a tutorial or the like in the manual?

Cheers
Mark

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 1:31:20 PM   
jomni


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Most AE scenarios are grand campaign variations unlike WitP where the war is also split into two-year parts.
Though AE still has the famous Coral Sea scenario which UV and WitP has.  
Coral Sea is a nice scenario for beginners as it has exciting carrier action and island hopping.
But it will never prepare you for the economic management that is required in the grand campaign.

BTW, AE has an editor. so you will most likely get smaller user scenarios.

But don't get scared.  I have learned to adopt the following mindset... "Experience the game instead of playing it". 
Playing = learning the rules and how the game resolves the battles and economy.  It's quite futile in learning all these in the first run.
Experiencing = being the shoes of the commanders of the time and make the tough decisions that they make without fully knowing the consequences (in real life you don't really know the ship and airplane stats, the resource cost.)

Most of all, don't play to win but play to learn and experience the war in all its glory.

BTW, I'm a newbie and I think this mindset is good enough to motivate me in playing a few turns a day.

(in reply to Cougar_DK)
Post #: 2
RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 2:03:10 PM   
Cougar_DK


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Thanks jomni,

That was a good way to wrap the head around it. Still getting closer to buy it


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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 2:21:40 PM   
CLEVELAND

 

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Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Shaker Hts, Ohio, USA
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I'm a complete newby myself and have been playing the Aleutians scenario to get acquainted with the mechanics of movement, combat etc.  It is seriously not as bad as I thought it would be but then again it's only a small scenario.  I think the hardest thing for me are the abbreviations and rules for transports.  Also, every screen seems to have an asterisk somewhere and I have no idea what they mean.

More popups would help too.

I'm having fun so far.

(in reply to Cougar_DK)
Post #: 4
RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 2:49:01 PM   
Valgua


Posts: 218
Joined: 11/10/2006
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Most AE scenarios are grand campaign variations unlike WitP where the war is also split into two-year parts.
Though AE still has the famous Coral Sea scenario which UV and WitP has.  
Coral Sea is a nice scenario for beginners as it has exciting carrier action and island hopping.
But it will never prepare you for the economic management that is required in the grand campaign.

BTW, AE has an editor. so you will most likely get smaller user scenarios.

But don't get scared.  I have learned to adopt the following mindset... "Experience the game instead of playing it". 
Playing = learning the rules and how the game resolves the battles and economy.  It's quite futile in learning all these in the first run.
Experiencing = being the shoes of the commanders of the time and make the tough decisions that they make without fully knowing the consequences (in real life you don't really know the ship and airplane stats, the resource cost.)

Most of all, don't play to win but play to learn and experience the war in all its glory.

BTW, I'm a newbie and I think this mindset is good enough to motivate me in playing a few turns a day.



That's my philosophy as well. It is meaningless to learn everything unless your only goal is to win. I sit in front of my computer with the manual on my knees and I try to elaborate a strategy. Then I read in the manual how I am supposed to give the desired orders to my troops.
For Cougar_DK: The game is certainly the most complicated wargame I have ever played, and I have played many. But there is a reward for the steep learning curve: one of the longest and best gaming experiences of my life. There is only one game that I have played for a longer time than WitP, and only because it came out earlier: The Operational Art of War.

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 4:36:47 PM   
Cougar_DK


Posts: 463
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From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CLEVELAND

I'm a complete newby myself and have been playing the Aleutians scenario to get acquainted with the mechanics of movement, combat etc.  It is seriously not as bad as I thought it would be but then again it's only a small scenario.  I think the hardest thing for me are the abbreviations and rules for transports.  Also, every screen seems to have an asterisk somewhere and I have no idea what they mean.

More popups would help too.

I'm having fun so far.


Hi Cleveland,
And thanks for posting.

Could you share a little about the Aleutians scenario? How many ships, planes and what of the map it uses?

Cheers
Mark

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 4:39:48 PM   
Cougar_DK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Valgua
For Cougar_DK: The game is certainly the most complicated wargame I have ever played, and I have played many. But there is a reward for the steep learning curve: one of the longest and best gaming experiences of my life. There is only one game that I have played for a longer time than WitP, and only because it came out earlier: The Operational Art of War.


Yeah, the learning curve is one of my worries, but again fuel for the fire, it would be great to master the game

I have played some TOAW, but not enough

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 4:42:17 PM   
Cougar_DK


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Another thing is the screen resolution fixed at 1024x768. I have some other games running this resolution and I'm really not fond of the resolution at my 20" 1680x1050 monitor. But the window option is really great.

Do you normal play in a window or ?

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 5:12:32 PM   
USS America


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I play in window mode, even on my laptop.  Let's me quickly jump between my notes and the game.

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Post #: 9
RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 5:17:37 PM   
CLEVELAND

 

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From: Shaker Hts, Ohio, USA
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Aleutians:

I'm playing as the Japanese and I have at my command many categories of ships plus land and carrier based planes and bombers.  Japs starts out with a very small force and then it grows (ahistorically- I don't believe there were three Japanese carriers up there in real life).  By the time you learn how to use your small force at the start reinforcements arrive, then you learn to use those, and then another batch arrives etc. By the time the US assaults one of the islands you have learned most of the basics.

The map only covers the Aleutians/Dutch Harbor/and a "big" Japanese base to the west.

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Post #: 10
RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 5:30:52 PM   
Tazo


Posts: 85
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Toulouse, France
Status: offline
 
Concerning the screen, check the various threads on this topic.

Generally speaking the forum is so rich that you will never loose time reading the posts, most players have the same questions and the variety
of answers and advises really helps making progress and finding your own way and style.

About the scenario, after the Coral and Aloutian, try to "experience" (Jomni is perfectly right, this is the AE communauty way of gaming!) the
Guadalcanal longer scenario, still on a small map (Salomons) : you will see all the usual kinds of situations and fightings in a very dense operational
campaign, without the grand strategic questionings. You have a several months objective, so don't stop after the first clashes to learn more.
Both sides have equivalent ressources, receive renforcements to counter attack and contest, surprise is often possible (each time you bring a
new bright TF to the front after a previous defeat) and the theater is so crowded that your subs, small air or naval units will be dangerous as well,
especially at night. The learning will also concern "how to conduct isle invasions or counter-invasions them keep supplying the high spot in hostile
waters" together with "what should I do to secure my own just-behind the front line perimeter" in addition to all the air/naval management already
learned from the short scenarii. But make carrier TFs operating a long time will give hints on "how not to waste them"...

Whence the 3 progressive steps :
1) Coral or Aleoutian for naval/air in a short time/short scale --> learning
2) Guadalcanal for intense local naval/air/land/supply operations in a medim time /small scale (several sub-operations by your own) --> experience + learning
3) The big jump to the immersive campaign in a very long time /huge space --> experience

TZ

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The good ones almost always fail under unexpected circumstances that often make the bad ones succeed.
-- Napoléon.

With AE immortality is no more a curse.
-- A lucky man.

(in reply to Cougar_DK)
Post #: 11
RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 5:55:41 PM   
Drakken


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I think one of the reasons why we newbies feel overwhelmed, which leads to become intimidated by the scope, is that we feel the need to perform too many things, too rapidly.

We feel that we MUST do everything everwhere on December 8th, that we must change commands everywhere, oversee everything, micro-manage each and every thing now: launch offensives in China, moving troops in CBI, launch submarines, etc.

Also, because we know in hindsight that the Japs are coming, the temptation to rapatriate every and all transports to secure ports is very tempting. However, the sheer number of commands we must issue because of that leads to being overwhelmed, while in fact we do have time before us for planning.

In hindsight, however, there are things I can certainly pass over:

- China CAN wait, no need to rush the Japanese lines on December 8th.
- Likewise in Burma and India. The only land movements I usually do in CBI is to prepare a defense in depth type of line in Malaya at Kuala Lumpur, stretching the Japanese supply line from Kota Bahru, and concentrate my troops protecting the north of the Peninsula there with some reinforcements from Singapore (plus sacking Percival and replace him by a more... fighting commander). Reinforcements for India and Burma will come in due time (from Aden and Capetown).
- Launch the subs from Manila, of course. And sometimes, move down my troops from Aparri to prepare a defense north of Manila.
- Prepare Midway as a main submarine base for those sent around the Japanese islands.
- Rapatriate all available transports to their mutual home bases for logistical purposes: Aden/Abadan, Darwin/Melbourne/Sydney, Batavia/Soerabaja, etc. BUT, and this is a big but, I keep the supplies and resources coming in and out, especially in the DEI. In my mind, Dutch transports would continue to feed Dutch interests and industries until the Japs start arriving, so no need to immediately Sir Robin them to Darwin on December 8th. Losing these transports is breaking eggshells; not losing them is an added bonus.
- On the WC, the only thing I do is send convoys to supply up Dutch Harbor, Anchorage, and Juneau, like the US Chief of Staff would order after Pearl Harbor.


< Message edited by Drakken -- 8/5/2009 6:04:12 PM >

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 7:11:09 PM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1941
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cougar_DK


Yeah, the learning curve is one of my worries, but again fuel for the fire, it would be great to master the game




No need to worry.

Another way to view it is mastering a musical instrument. You'll be able to play the instrument quickly - mastering it comes later - and even then you'll still be learning new things.

If you start as the Allies your learning curve will likely be shorter than the actual time it took for them to get squared away.

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Post #: 13
RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 7:36:07 PM   
jazman

 

Posts: 364
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From: Crush Depth
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cougar_DK

...but again fuel for the fire...



But only if you shipped it.

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Post #: 14
RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 8:45:50 PM   
rroberson

 

Posts: 1947
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
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Welcome and when your wife is complaining about all the time you spend with "that damn game." just tell her the Navy didn't issue a wife with your seabag.

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Post #: 15
RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 8:53:21 PM   
mussey


Posts: 122
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Most AE scenarios are grand campaign variations unlike WitP where the war is also split into two-year parts.
Though AE still has the famous Coral Sea scenario which UV and WitP has.  
Coral Sea is a nice scenario for beginners as it has exciting carrier action and island hopping.
But it will never prepare you for the economic management that is required in the grand campaign.

BTW, AE has an editor. so you will most likely get smaller user scenarios.

But don't get scared.  I have learned to adopt the following mindset... "Experience the game instead of playing it". 
Playing = learning the rules and how the game resolves the battles and economy.  It's quite futile in learning all these in the first run.
Experiencing = being the shoes of the commanders of the time and make the tough decisions that they make without fully knowing the consequences (in real life you don't really know the ship and airplane stats, the resource cost.)

Most of all, don't play to win but play to learn and experience the war in all its glory.

BTW, I'm a newbie and I think this mindset is good enough to motivate me in playing a few turns a day.



Quite right. Like a good book, if you can extract at least one important insight that will gain you a better understanding, then it is worth the time. In this case we will learn at a much deeper level how war in the Pacific was waged.


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Post #: 16
RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 8:57:57 PM   
Gem35


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The grand campaign is intimidating. As it should be, you have full control over a lot of units on a large map.

The good news is that after a few weeks/months of game time the time spent completing a turn is only a few minutes.
By then you will have absorbed and gotten a feel for your forces and have some decent plans laid out.

I was the same way when I first played WitP. I was overwhlmed and felt like I was never going to understand it.
I can happily say now... Boy what a great decision it was to get this game.

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 9:04:06 PM   
lostsm

 

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i still havent played AE, but if its anything like witp, go through the tutorial, then do a small scenario, or go for the grand campaign but let the AI take over most of the map for you.

one suggestion i had read a while back on here was to play as allies in grand campaign and only control the india/burma/malaya theatre while leaving the AI do the rest. great way to learn

still, i think getting down and dirty with WiTP first, before jumping into AE, should help. i guess a thing new players have to realize (and i'm very newb by no means saying i'm a pro but im okay against the AI), is that this game is a time sink. unlike other strat games out there you probably will not be able to blitz through the entire war in a week

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/5/2009 9:10:50 PM   
FAsea

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lostsm

i still havent played AE, but if its anything like witp, go through the tutorial, then do a small scenario, or go for the grand campaign but let the AI take over most of the map for you.

one suggestion i had read a while back on here was to play as allies in grand campaign and only control the india/burma/malaya theatre while leaving the AI do the rest. great way to learn


You can't do that in AE because the new AI could not be made compatabile with it.

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/6/2009 12:23:43 AM   
Swayin


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Cougar,

The Aleutians are a perfect starter scenario. Small number of units, but a variety of duties and jobs on both sides; as the Allies, loading up and taking islands that you will need to "soften up" to take; as the Japanese, a good chance to operate carriers almost with impunity, at least near Kiska ... great way to break into the game. Play it until you can win it on both sides, then you're ready for Guadalcanal ... once you've got that under your belt ... your life will REALLY be completely and toally devoted to "one more tunr" at planning out the entire Pacific war.

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/6/2009 10:38:21 AM   
Cougar_DK


Posts: 463
Joined: 5/3/2005
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Swayin

Cougar,

The Aleutians are a perfect starter scenario. Small number of units, but a variety of duties and jobs on both sides; as the Allies, loading up and taking islands that you will need to "soften up" to take; as the Japanese, a good chance to operate carriers almost with impunity, at least near Kiska ... great way to break into the game. Play it until you can win it on both sides, then you're ready for Guadalcanal ... once you've got that under your belt ... your life will REALLY be completely and toally devoted to "one more tunr" at planning out the entire Pacific war.


Thanks for the get started guide

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/6/2009 10:38:36 AM   
Cougar_DK


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One more question.... How is the tutorial?

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/6/2009 11:11:11 AM   
jomni


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What tutorial?
I started playing AE even without reading the manual.
But I have prior WitP experience.

Seriously, if it's similar to WitP's tutorial, then it will teach you the essentials of the different types of operations in no time.

< Message edited by jomni -- 8/6/2009 11:12:53 AM >

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/6/2009 11:21:49 AM   
Sardaukar


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Aleutians is the tutorial in AE.

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/6/2009 1:35:30 PM   
Cougar_DK


Posts: 463
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Aleutians is the tutorial in AE.


Great thanks!

I'm soo close....hehe

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/9/2009 7:27:14 AM   
Cougar_DK


Posts: 463
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Yes, I did it. Downloading now. Thanks for all the help, pretty sure I will be back for more when times come

Looking forward to this game.

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/9/2009 8:02:44 AM   
Cougar_DK


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Hmmm, where do I find the tutorial? 

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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/9/2009 3:00:38 PM   
hgilmer3


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I think there is no scenario called "The Tutorial".  As someone said, the Aleutian campaign is the default Tutorial, but I do not know if there is a walkthrough of it.


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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/9/2009 3:10:29 PM   
Cougar_DK


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Yes, I must even confess I'm not really sure what scenario that is the "Aleutian" one... And a quick search after tutorial gives a post about it being delayed. I hope it soon will be ready since it don't own WiTP and therefore not have the tutorial for it.


< Message edited by Cougar_DK -- 8/9/2009 3:11:19 PM >


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RE: Another noob is maybe ready to take the plundge - 8/9/2009 3:11:58 PM   
Sardaukar


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There is no "Tutorial". Aleutian scenario is the small scenario to use in that sense, but there is no walkthrough. Just read the manual and start to learn things with it.

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