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Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything?

 
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Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/5/2009 1:48:26 AM   
slybelle

 

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Wow....up until now I have only loaded the smaller scenarios but tonight actually loaded the grand campaign. Talk about huge!

What I'm wondering is how the heck do you know which unit/actions you have worked on versus the ones you still need to issue orders? Is there any kind of feature that allows you to cycle to all units in some kind of order? Otherwise, how do you veterans of this game actually make sure you have done everything that is possible in a turn.

Signed,

Overwhelmed:)
Post #: 1
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/5/2009 1:57:45 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slybelle
how do you veterans of this game actually make sure you have done everything that is possible in a turn.



Heh, sometimes you don't. Lots of notes. AE will be easier because we can name our convoys. Many times I've sent a TF somewhere and a game-week later saw it and wondered why the heck I ever did that. Just keep messing around with it and you'll figure out your own style. Most of us form a certain habit. I start with Japan and work my way north to Manchuoko, then west through China to Burma and south through the SRA to the SE Area then north through the Central Pacific to the Aleutians. I do all my merchant shipping at the beginning. It only took 5 years to figure that out.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to slybelle)
Post #: 2
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/5/2009 1:58:44 AM   
jazman

 

Posts: 361
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From: Crush Depth
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I'm new to this, and I'm figuring that the way I'll know is when the Japs take something, and I realize I didn't do anything in that area, and I better get on the ball.

I've seen where the first turn is the killer, then once you have things set, a lot of things just go.

(in reply to slybelle)
Post #: 3
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/5/2009 2:06:53 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 458
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
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I don't know if I did everything but I play 1 day turns so most, as in almost every turn, if I forget something I will get it tomorrow. Sometimes it cost me a good ambush I was thinking of but mostly nothin gthat can't wait a day.

It helps to look really close and and learn OOB and Chain of Commands. That way I know where everyone is suppose to be relatively. Of course I have Pacific units in the South Pacific but that is not unsual with me and I am playing Scenario 2 so CENPAC is fine but getting into trouble down south. It will become second nature sooner or later.

< Message edited by Scott_USN -- 8/5/2009 2:07:07 AM >

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RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/5/2009 2:24:20 AM   
jazman

 

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Right now all I'm doing on the first turn is some repair at PH, and setting ship and air ASW patrols at all major bases. I've seen enough here about the Jap subs, I'm not taking any chances.

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Post #: 5
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/5/2009 2:29:25 AM   
pad152

 

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You don't, just like in real life! There is no one way to play WITP or WITP-AE.

Normally I use the strategic map (Cntrl-A) and go command by command (North Pacific, West Coast, etc.), come up with a plan for each command and figure out what I want to do, find what I need and then start sending in forces.

After the first turn you really don't need to go and re-check every thing each and every turn, except the areas in combat. Then every three days I go back and check/reset the training/partrols/reinforcement levels for aircraft, check the status of ships as sea, taskforces, supply/fuel/build levels at bases in each command.

Each day use the buttons on the top of the screen to check ships and task forces at sea (T-key) and check for damaged ships (S-key). Check the bottom of the ops report to see what has arrived in theater.

If you are playing allies pick where you want to make a stand and start sending forces there, slowly building up your forward bases, no need to rush, it's a long war. Playing Japan is a whole other ball game, where you want to grab what you can as fast as you can, then digg in and try to hold out for as long as you can.






(in reply to slybelle)
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RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/5/2009 2:29:57 AM   
NightFlyer


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If you really wanted to, you could cycle through all your TFs using the ">" and "<" keys (unshifted doesn't bring up the TF display) and cycle thru your bases using the "+" and "-" keys. The scale and detail can seem a little overwhelming at first, for me anyways. But it gets easer the more turns you put in. I find I'm spending way too much time tinkering with the jap economy to actually move units around

_____________________________



"It is generally inadvisable to eject directly over the area you just bombed.." -U.S. Air Force Manual

(in reply to Scott_USN)
Post #: 7
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/5/2009 2:42:51 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 458
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From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NightFlyer

If you really wanted to, you could cycle through all your TFs using the ">" and "<" keys (unshifted doesn't bring up the TF display) and cycle thru your bases using the "+" and "-" keys. The scale and detail can seem a little overwhelming at first, for me anyways. But it gets easer the more turns you put in. I find I'm spending way too much time tinkering with the jap economy to actually move units around



That economy will get you and hold you for days.... while the Yanks move :)

(in reply to NightFlyer)
Post #: 8
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/5/2009 2:48:33 AM   
seydlitz


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I take the philosophy that there is only so many things that are absolutely critical to do on the first turn. I will do those items, and then work the other things in over the suceeding turns. Often things will become clearer by then anyways.

For example, on turn one as Japan, I start some of the aircraft factories expanding or converting to what I need them to produce. Since I can't absolutely predict what the total HI bill will be for the next turn and I really need to keep aircraft and armament production going, I compensate by setting all naval and merchant shipyards to "halt" and "do not repair" on turn one. That will provide enough HI to handle all of the conversions and one day's delay won't kill me on the ships. Then I can turn them back on on turn 2 or three. Likewise, I turn off all of the aircraft R&D factories in the same way for the first couple of turns to save supply. I will turn them back on as soon as I decide what they really need to research (and I can tell you that it isn't a plane due in 1946)...

Other than that some unit combat moves, recons, and packing for strategic move. Then focus on units already engaged. Every thing else can be done over the next few turns. If you go OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) you might never get done.

(in reply to NightFlyer)
Post #: 9
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 12:52:57 AM   
slybelle

 

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Well, I guess I will just have to jump in and see how it goes. I don't mind the work but just wish there was a way to see what I might have missed.

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RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 12:58:25 AM   
Terminus


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Maybe you could make some kind of checklist?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 12:59:45 AM   
Beezle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NightFlyer

If you really wanted to, you could cycle through all your TFs using the ">" and "<" keys (unshifted doesn't bring up the TF display) and cycle thru your bases using the "+" and "-" keys. The scale and detail can seem a little overwhelming at first, for me anyways. But it gets easer the more turns you put in. I find I'm spending way too much time tinkering with the jap economy to actually move units around


I do that (cycle through all the TF, all the bases, look at all the Air Groups) but not every turn. At the start I do a few things to get started sorting out (get TFs loading in the West Coast, star reparing ships in Pearl.

Next turn I deal with New Guinea and Australia, maybe.

About once a week I look at everything, but you'll get overwhelmed (and probably quit) if you make it too much work.The Briish ships around the Malay Peninsula need urgent attention. Sorting out China can wait a turn or 4 and then work on China on a turn when things are more organized elsewhere.

The game is long and it takes time for things to develop. You don't have to do everything right off.


_____________________________


Beezle - Rapidly running out of altitude, airspeed and ideas.

(in reply to NightFlyer)
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RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 1:12:38 AM   
tacfire

 

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I remember the first time I started a Grand Campaign as the allies in WiTP. I was so overwhelmed. So many decisions, what to do?  It is quite overwhelming.

But then I realized, this is not a game that you need to have a full plan of everything from day one - at least if your playing against the AI.  Remember you have 5 full years, 365 turns per year to do stuff.  That is a long, long time.

You start the game with a few plans and attacks, then as the days and weeks pass, you learn the map better, you learn your units better, you add to your plans, you adjust your forces, by the time you get into day 20 of the grand campaign (around January 1942) you will be surprised you will know the map much better, you will know your units much better, you will have a strategy rolling along, and you will find turns getting much easier because it will be just modifications of what you are already doing.

The first few turns are the hardest, and don't worry if you haven't figured everything out in turn one, just start moving along, turn after turn, you knowldege and grasp of the situation grows deeper and deeper.  The good thing about this game is that it does move along slowly compared to other games and lasts much longer. So it is not the end of the world if you forget to do something on the first turn.

I also recommend playing allies first grand campaign if you are indifferent.  They have more of a defensive role in the beginning, so things are a bit slower for them in the beginning, as opposed to the Japanese who have to move fast in the beginning, and the other advantage of playing as the allies is you don't have to worry about economic production like the Japanese do - which is a monster by itself :) 

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 13
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 1:32:45 AM   
FAsea

 

Posts: 403
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From: Hex 181, 36
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Maybe you could make some kind of checklist?


This will be my project at "work" tomorrow

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 14
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 1:41:47 AM   
88l71


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I asked once on the old WitP forum if any of the experienced folks had some sort of checklist, but none was posted. I guess it's more important to come up with some system that works for *you*.


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Post #: 15
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 1:50:49 AM   
Mynok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tacfire
But then I realized, this is not a game that you need to have a full plan of everything from day one - at least if your playing against the AI.  Remember you have 5 full years, 365 turns per year to do stuff.  That is a long, long time.


Only if your the Allies.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to tacfire)
Post #: 16
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 2:05:47 AM   
gunnergoz


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From: San Diego CA
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Yes, I've only tried Allies too, but I find that starting off getting all the ships out of port and on their way at all the Allied bases is a good start.  Then I check all the airbases in the main theaters to ensure that all the groups are not stood down without good reason (like zero or one aircraft and the rest under repair).  Then I start building forts in the main bases and move select units in Malaya and perhaps the PI.  Get the carriers moving (right now two of them are giving the Wake invasion force a real headache, but I need to scram at the first sign of the Japanese carrier force, which outnumbers me 3 to 1).  Also, ensure that ships needing shipyard repair, are in fact in shipyards.  Get the transports headed towards main bases or Colombo or SF, depending upon ship type/range/speed.  Get tankers moving ditto.
That's the first turn, the subsequent ones are follow ups.


_____________________________

"Things are getting better!
...Well, maybe not as good as they were yesterday, but much better than they will be tomorrow!"
-Old Russian saying

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 17
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 2:07:00 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

Posts: 16030
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From: Southern California
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Hey...I am playing a team game as Allies. There are months when I never look at anything east of Norfolk Is.

Lord Admiral Tapbub broke his mother board so I had to take over for the USN for a while...I found the Long Island just parked at Canton with a squadron of A-24's aboard and had no idea what was happening. It will be even more daunting in AE but labeled TF's will help as will waypoints.

When you are on the strategic defensive, you need to decide where you will try to hold given your resources and then decide how to get your land combat forces there with the support they will need. When you move over to the offensive you need to plan at least 2 mos. ahead for major operations.

For eg., lets say you decide you need a Bn of infantry, a CD unit, aviation support for 50 aircraft and a squadron of Wildcats and PBY's for Canton Is. Find the units, write them down (with unit ID's and locations) then gather the transport resources (work backwards from the lift requirements of the units) and escorts to get them there (this may take you many weeks if they are coming from the US). Label the TF, be sure to bring enough supply and fuel, set the waypoints, label an escort TF (if needed)...et voila..easy

The point is to start at the Strategic level of planning and move down. Generally speaking, the strategic plans will remain valid for months of game time.

You dont need to visit every backwater base every turn although you do need to carefully look at recon reports and pay very close scrutiny where you are actively engaged with the enemy..even perhaps down to the level of search arcs in AE.

I often don't even look at the combat replay but just the combat text files to save time unles there is intense action. This is somewhat dangerous as you will not gather all the information but walking the dog with a gin and tonic is fun too. (NB. Dont do this if you have major surface forces or carriers in harm way )

Even if you dont watch the combat replay you will still have to scan the map for surprises (I would start with the Aleutians and go clockwise). Many times you will miss things...usually it doesn't matter and sometimes the mistake turns out favorably.

Relax...enjoy it. Pretend you are an Admiral




(in reply to slybelle)
Post #: 18
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 2:16:05 AM   
FAsea

 

Posts: 403
Joined: 6/25/2009
From: Hex 181, 36
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Pretend you are an Admiral


I don't have to pretend. Now if you will excuse me I have some plastic boats in the bath tub that need my attention

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 19
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 2:21:52 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

Posts: 16030
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tacfire

I remember the first time I started a Grand Campaign as the allies in WiTP. I was so overwhelmed. So many decisions, what to do?  It is quite overwhelming.

But then I realized, this is not a game that you need to have a full plan of everything from day one - at least if your playing against the AI.  Remember you have 5 full years, 365 turns per year to do stuff.  That is a long, long time.

You start the game with a few plans and attacks, then as the days and weeks pass, you learn the map better, you learn your units better, you add to your plans, you adjust your forces, by the time you get into day 20 of the grand campaign (around January 1942) you will be surprised you will know the map much better, you will know your units much better, you will have a strategy rolling along, and you will find turns getting much easier because it will be just modifications of what you are already doing.

The first few turns are the hardest, and don't worry if you haven't figured everything out in turn one, just start moving along, turn after turn, you knowldege and grasp of the situation grows deeper and deeper.  The good thing about this game is that it does move along slowly compared to other games and lasts much longer. So it is not the end of the world if you forget to do something on the first turn.

I also recommend playing allies first grand campaign if you are indifferent.  They have more of a defensive role in the beginning, so things are a bit slower for them in the beginning, as opposed to the Japanese who have to move fast in the beginning, and the other advantage of playing as the allies is you don't have to worry about economic production like the Japanese do - which is a monster by itself :) 



This is good advice. I agree completely. You will soon know without conscious effort where every island is.

I was at lunch the other day at work and somebody started talking about Brunei. Someone asked, "where is that?"

I answered, "North coast of Borneo, on the South China Sea, almost due South of Hong Kong 800-900 miles".

After somebody looked it up on their Crackberry, they were impressed.


Much easier to play the Allies, I think.

(in reply to tacfire)
Post #: 20
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 3:57:43 AM   
88l71


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At least you didn't list the distance in hexes.

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Post #: 21
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 4:00:41 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slybelle
What I'm wondering is how the heck do you know which unit/actions you have worked on versus the ones you still need to issue orders? Is there any kind of feature that allows you to cycle to all units in some kind of order? Otherwise, how do you veterans of this game actually make sure you have done everything that is possible in a turn.

Signed,

Overwhelmed:)



First.., get used to the idea that "perfect" isn't going to happen! Then establish a "routine" and stick with it! Third, make a note when you see something you overlooked so you can be certain not to do it again.

(in reply to slybelle)
Post #: 22
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 6:58:06 AM   
Dili

 

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Joined: 9/10/2004
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quote:

First.., get used to the idea that "perfect" isn't going to happen!


Precisely

quote:

Then establish a "routine" and stick with it!


Precisely again My routine is by Command, I Army, II Army etc. I have only in my mind their main missions and there is it.


(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 23
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/6/2009 7:21:53 AM   
Roger Neilson II


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I have not read the manual and am just launched straight into the grand campaign. I will make loads of mistakes, but my learning style is best this way. I simply run round the map, starting at one end and moving round. I'm allies. Already there are a lot of places where there is an autopilot at work really, and other places where I really need to think.

As Allies once you get your own view of how things should go in the 'backyards' then its not worth doing much planning till you se what the Evil empire is up to - a lot of stuff is going to be reactive for the first 6 months

Roger

_____________________________


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Post #: 24
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/7/2009 2:45:31 AM   
slybelle

 

Posts: 193
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Probably going to get destroyed asking this question, but would anybody actually recommend a new player like me to take a step back and maybe try Uncommon Valor first? Or is the scope of that game just as daunting? Or should I just slug it out and stick with AE and figure things out?

I know I probably should I have thought about that before purchasing:)

(in reply to Roger Neilson II)
Post #: 25
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/7/2009 2:55:52 AM   
FAsea

 

Posts: 403
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From: Hex 181, 36
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If you want to learn AE you should play AE.

(in reply to slybelle)
Post #: 26
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/7/2009 2:56:09 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 13933
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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slybelle, I'd stick with AE. Start the Coral Sea Scenario or the Guadalcanal Campaign. There's UV right there. Plus, it's been drastically updated since the days of only UV.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 27
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/7/2009 3:22:44 AM   
jazman

 

Posts: 361
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From: Crush Depth
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 88l71

At least you didn't list the distance in hexes.


He wanted to, but couldn't decide on WitP or AE hexes.

(in reply to 88l71)
Post #: 28
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/7/2009 5:02:21 AM   
Dili

 

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"Probably going to get destroyed asking this question, but would anybody actually recommend a new player like me to take a step back and maybe try Uncommon Valor first? Or is the scope of that game just as daunting? Or should I just slug it out and stick with AE and figure things out?"

UV would not help you, au contraire! It will just take space in your Brain-Memory combo. It is not just sucking data you have to learn, it is also the brain mechanisms you will develop when you play.

(in reply to jazman)
Post #: 29
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/7/2009 7:10:44 AM   
Roger Neilson II


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Seriously, just give it a go, and don't expect to master anything, just gaze in absolute wonder at what is there.....I am utterly transfixed by the level of detail and can almost smell the places!

Roger

_____________________________


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Post #: 30
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