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The Bleedin' Obvious

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The Bleedin' Obvious Page: [1]
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The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/2/2009 2:22:47 AM   
Big B

 

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Well guys, 'War in the Pacific' had a damn fine & long run, and set the standard for what a serious pc war game should be.

But it's time to face facts - for the vast majority - AE is the new Ultra, and WitP has gone the way of UV - without even the benefit of a smaller scale to offer.

But the good news is - AE is available and worth every pfennig for you Grognards.

"The King is Dead, Long Live The King!"

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/2/2009 3:17:50 AM   
rogueusmc


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The king ain't dead...he's workin' down at the Tasty Freeze...he makes a mean milkshake...he says it's all in the hips...

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/2/2009 1:45:19 PM   
OSO


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I'd agree with you that the forum is dead and there won't be many newcomers to this version, but there are a lot of us out there with campaigns still going. It will be a few years before I finish my current game so it's far from dead...

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/2/2009 8:04:17 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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My father was in the 96th division also. And I doubt that WitP is far from "dead".

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/2/2009 9:36:53 PM   
OldGuard1970

 

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 Yes, AE is King.  We are putting lots of time into trying to figure it out, so many of the "forumites" are placing their main effort there.

However, I think it is early to write off WITP.   I know my WITP PBEM will keep me interested in WITP for a few more years.  I suspect some people will prefer the WITP game.

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/3/2009 1:13:55 AM   
thegreatwent


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This forum has to much great advice to abandon since my '44 campaign is still going on.

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/3/2009 7:40:19 AM   
Alfred

 

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Based on the comments made by many JFB players over the years, I suspect many are going to be disappointed that AE will not easily allow for the unhistorical Japanese tempo of operations, or uber conquest of Allied home territories or the massive industrialisation of Japan.  When their thirst for unhistoric freedom of action is not met, I suspect many will be "bored" with AE and perhaps return to WITP "classic" as a more suitable outlet for their Napoleonic energy.

Alfred

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/3/2009 1:49:32 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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Some people will not like the micro management and be back after the honeymoon wears off. Personally I found having to check all my ground units every turn to see which arrived and needed to be manually switched to combat or reserve mode so they arent sitting in strategic or move mode was tedious. Having to specify a search arc all the time just to spot a carrier launching strikes 500 miles off the coast or to spot TFs engaging in surface combat within air strike range and no spotting reports. The naval react is way too active IMHO. The BS air stacking rules that prevent you from basing and operating historical numbers of aircraft at a base. Only being able to add planes once a week to squadrons. The invincible PTs. Countless reasons I personally wont play it. Maybe after a patch or 2, but as it is, I prefer WitP, and I suspect others will also.

As for the pace of the game, actually in my last test run (not against the AI) I had the allies bottled in Bataan, Singapore, had all of the SRA except Java and Sumatra, had Port Moresby, New Calidonia, and Fiji all before the middle of Jan 42.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 8/3/2009 1:50:51 PM >

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/3/2009 4:48:09 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Anyway, I agree that WITP is not dead. It actually offers a larger scale and more scenarios and it is easier to play in some ways (just plain fewer units, fewer hexes, less stuff to deal with). I think in the long run AE will hopefully become even easier to play and more content may be created for it, but WITP is due another update and I don't see it losing its niche for a while yet.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/3/2009 7:19:01 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins





This means what? That you disagree with my opinion and you think I am not entitled to it? Or you think my opinion doesnt matter? Either way I think it is very unprofessional for someone with a Matrix logo to post.

Or is there another meaning I dont see?

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/3/2009 7:59:18 PM   
OldGuard1970

 

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Hi YH,

To me, Erik's smiley expresses disagreement.  I have also seen it used to indicate a debate that has been covered before without resolution.  It does not suggest to me that Eric disapproves of your having your opinion.  

I read it as Erik's way of agreeing with your basic point without agreeing with your reasoning.

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/3/2009 9:09:17 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins





This means what? That you disagree with my opinion and you think I am not entitled to it? Or you think my opinion doesnt matter? Either way I think it is very unprofessional for someone with a Matrix logo to post.

Or is there another meaning I dont see?


It didn't indicate disagreement or the fact that you are not entitled to your opinion. I can't really disagree with an opinion, it's subjective. However, it did indicate that I've heard this opinion many, many times in posts from you now and it seemed tangential to this discussion. If I could sum it up in words, it meant "Here we go again".

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/3/2009 10:29:22 PM   
stuman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Based on the comments made by many JFB players over the years, I suspect many are going to be disappointed that AE will not easily allow for the unhistorical Japanese tempo of operations, or uber conquest of Allied home territories or the massive industrialisation of Japan.  When their thirst for unhistoric freedom of action is not met, I suspect many will be "bored" with AE and perhaps return to WITP "classic" as a more suitable outlet for their Napoleonic energy.

Alfred


It is similar to why I still play RISK with my kids. Sometimes it is fun to play a simple game with few rules. Some times it is fun to play a more "out there " fantasy type game, and then there is the ability to play a very realistic, challenging game like AE. All have their place. But damn is AE fun

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/4/2009 2:27:20 AM   
Local Yokel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Based on the comments made by many JFB players over the years, I suspect many are going to be disappointed that AE will not easily allow for the unhistorical Japanese tempo of operations, or uber conquest of Allied home territories or the massive industrialisation of Japan.  When their thirst for unhistoric freedom of action is not met, I suspect many will be "bored" with AE and perhaps return to WITP "classic" as a more suitable outlet for their Napoleonic energy.

Alfred


Alfred, perhaps I'm an exception, but I deliberately set out not to engage in an orgy of Japanese conquest. I have a secure position in N Australia for what I regard as sound strategic reasons, I took the whole Irrawaddy basin inclusive of Myitkyina (to close the Burma and Ledo roads) and I occupied New Caledonia for a spell before deciding my forces there were too much out on a limb. But I didn't invade India, I didn't occupy every island in the E Pacific, and I never coveted Sydney. This has permitted me to build a fairly solid perimeter by Q2 of 1943, and was good enough to secure auto-victory. If I am not following the pattern of most of the JFB's, then I think my conservative approach offers an interesting alternative.

Furthermore, I've got an excellent opponent in Cantona, my forces and economy seem to be in excellent shape, and I relish the prospect of taking him on in defensive battle. In short, I'm having a blast with WitP, and am happy for our game to go forward whilst my opponent is still up for the fight. So I see no reason to forsake this forum in the near future.

I'm not convinced that the operational tempo of most Japanese players is that unhistorical. From what I've seen the real life conquest of the SRA was concluded in about the same time scale as I saw many players accomplishing it in WitP. I certainly wasn't significantly 'ahead of timetable'. It will be interesting to see how many players can equal, in AE, the accomplishments of the real Centrifugal offensive - I suspect not many.

I have AE. I'm exploring it in a leisurely way. Clearly there are things to like - a Japanese economy that makes proper demands on its merchant marine, in particular. But it's not a project about which I have ever been passionately enthusiastic, and I'm reserving judgment on whether it will prove to be a good wargame. In the final analysis, fascinating conflict though it was, I'm not even sure the Pacific War is a good subject for a wargame.

For me the jury on AE is still out. So I still expect to earn 'frequent flier' miles on this forum.

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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/4/2009 6:12:22 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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Yokel... your campaign sounds a lot like the one ChezDaJez has waged against me in CHS. He took the SRA, grabbed all of northern Australian bases (inland as far as Daly Waters ) and New Guinea, the Solomons, Midway and Baker Islands. I had hit an early (mid-Dec '41) fast minelayer TF loaded with troops near Baker Is which looked like it was headed for Canton Island but he has never confirmed that suspicion. I did manage to stop him at Mandalay (the river crossing did him in - ain't gonna happen in AE).

His defensive perimeter put me in a position where for most of 1942 and early '43 I had no fighters that could reach the majority of his bases, so that certainly slowed my advance.

Since then I have taken back all of Australia except for Darwin (letting my troops recover a bit first), Pt Blair, Midway, Baker Is, Abemama, Makin, Nauru and am fighting for Tarawa at the moment. There's more coming, but I can't speak of that right now...




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fair winds,
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RE: The Bleedin' Obvious - 8/4/2009 8:25:59 AM   
Local Yokel


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Sounds like I think the same way as Chez on how far the Japanese should push.  Obviously he had unfulfilled designs on northern Burma.  I think it is a valid Japanese objective to capture Myitkyina, given that construction of the Ledo Road is 'assumed' by WitP to have been advanced three years, but definitely a tip o' the hat is due to you for stopping him at Mandalay.  Surmounting the logistic obstacles in re-taking N  Australia is also highly commendable, particularly since he dug in at Daly Waters, which I regard as the optimal Japanese outpost.

It's all very different in AE, with a plethora of base sites westwards from Darwin with an air SPS of 5 or better.  The ability to pick a line that keeps Allied aircraft at arm's length is a major plus point in WitP, one you don't get in AE.

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