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First anti-gaminess house rule for AE

 
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First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 7/31/2009 10:55:04 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 2731
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From: Salida, CA.
Status: online 		While studying the situation in Burma, I just realized that the addition of partisans to bases for the allied side gives the allies a new ability that I feel is gamey. If the allies abandon those bases, the partisans will destroy all the industry before Japan has a chance to capture Burma.

So I suggest players use a house rule that requires the allies to keep a minimum garrison in partisan bases until Japan crosses the Burmese border.

Jim


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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 12:08:04 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10228
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From: San Jose, CA
Status: offline 		A similar thread on the dev site a few weeks back was titled something like "Partisans are your friends" ... so issue known ... solution not ... at this point ...



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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 12:27:52 AM   
Splinterhead


Posts: 335
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From: Lenoir City, TN
Status: offline 		Would it be possible to have the partisans not activate if the allied forces are within a specified radius until mid 42 or something?

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 2:14:33 AM   
Jim D Burns


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Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online 		A better solution might be to have partisans destroy supply instead of industry. Both players value supply at all times. Maybe allow each attack to destroy 300-1000 (random) supply per day?

Jim


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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 3:50:19 AM   
OSO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

A better solution might be to have partisans destroy supply instead of industry. Both players value supply at all times. Maybe allow each attack to destroy 300-1000 (random) supply per day?

Jim



This might not be the best plan. We have more control over the flow of supplies now too. So once you evacuate the bases, the supply demand will go down anyways and you could turn it down more if you choose. Maybe if the supplies gifted to China were cut, that would be enough incentive to defend it.

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 7:23:49 AM   
sanch

 

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Status: offline 		Maybe if the base is un-occupied, then the natives will believe they kicked out the alien invaders, and won't destroy anything. Then, only if you wanted to use the base, would you need to worry about the garrison. It helps, but doesn't truly solve the problem of deliberately under-garrisonning bases.

For that problem, maybe you could track partisan-destroyed stuff separately from combat/air-destroyed stuff. Then, if the base changes hands, the partisan-destroyed stuff (or maybe some percentage of it) gets magically repaired. Thus, to truly deny it to the enemy when retreating, you need to destroy it through combat or city attacks, and kills the gaminess.

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 7:31:18 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
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Status: offline 		Were the Burmese partisans fighting against the western colonialists? If not, I would say that the best way would be to have them attack only when the base is Japanese. If they did fight against the allies as well as Japan, I can understand why you are having a difficult time dealing with the issue. 

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 7:58:56 AM   
denisonh


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From: Northern Virginia
Status: offline 		Yes, they were hostile with the British
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Were the Burmese partisans fighting against the western colonialists? If not, I would say that the best way would be to have them attack only when the base is Japanese. If they did fight against the allies as well as Japan, I can understand why you are having a difficult time dealing with the issue. 



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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 8:05:01 AM   
devoncop

 

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Status: offline 		There is always the option to include a significant VP penalty to the side whose bases are overrun by partisans to reflect the hit to prestige over such an event happening?Slightly blunt tool but may have the desired effect, and although the supply rather than industry damage suggested may also work,it would not really penalise the allies..........Cheers
Ian

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 8:14:48 AM   
Scott_USN

 

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Status: offline 		Using PT's to destroy 20 to 50 Japanese transports around PI

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 9:04:12 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

A similar thread on the dev site a few weeks back was titled something like "Partisans are your friends" ... so issue known ... solution not ... at this point ...





why not having it just the same as in China? Garisson requirements only for the Japanese? As soon as the Japanese don´t garisson the bases the partisans destroy the HI/oil/resources.

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 10:40:42 AM   
JeffK


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Status: online 		CastorTroy

Because there was significant anti-colonialist pushes in places like the DEI, French Indo-China & Malaya.

Having a Garrison requirement makes a lot of sense, but I feel the penalty is currently too high and needs to be softened a bit


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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 11:01:43 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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Status: online 		There are two different representations of Burma insurrection being displayed here,

1. Rangoon - a general disaffection with the British therefore needs to be garrisoned
2. Dacoits in northern Burma raiding your supply convoys need to guard you LOC or you will get hit

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 12:12:23 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

CastorTroy

Because there was significant anti-colonialist pushes in places like the DEI, French Indo-China & Malaya.

Having a Garrison requirement makes a lot of sense, but I feel the penalty is currently too high and needs to be softened a bit




I´m aware of this but I feel the same as the original poster. In PBEM an Allied player will immedietely identify it being an advantage for him to move out of the base, get all the sites damaged by partisans and then perhaps move into it again. When the Japanese show up, everything to conquer is destroyed already while you still have to fight the Allied... for nothing to gain...

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 6:45:21 PM   
Graymane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

CastorTroy

Because there was significant anti-colonialist pushes in places like the DEI, French Indo-China & Malaya.

Having a Garrison requirement makes a lot of sense, but I feel the penalty is currently too high and needs to be softened a bit




I´m aware of this but I feel the same as the original poster. In PBEM an Allied player will immedietely identify it being an advantage for him to move out of the base, get all the sites damaged by partisans and then perhaps move into it again. When the Japanese show up, everything to conquer is destroyed already while you still have to fight the Allied... for nothing to gain...


That is the trick really. How to make it not an advantage? Is there a way to make unrest spread or become greater in other cities for the allies if they let one fall to partisans?

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 6:59:41 PM   
jwilkerson


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Status: offline 		We discussed the possibility of having an ungarrisoned base which required a garrison have a chance of switching sides - that is a rather abstract way of representing some downside of walking away from the base completely - but this idea was not adopted.

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 7:07:55 PM   
Termite2

 

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Status: offline 		It must be a coincidence; but last nite I was watching "3 came back" which is based on a true story; while the thrust of the movie has to do with civilians captured by the Japanese, it tells how the civil authorities were ordered to stay put and destroy all facilities and supplies.   In this particular case, Sandakan; and the invading Japanese were as angry as a 1950 era movie would allow to find the facilites and supplies destroyed.

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 7:20:26 PM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1905
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From: Western USA
Status: offline 		How dare those Allies not properly protect the Empire's future holdings!


Sorry, I'm going to move my cyber troops into the best defensive positions. To heck with the natives and Tojo's boys.

BTW, thanks for the scorched earth tips!

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 7:25:25 PM   
mjk428

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

A similar thread on the dev site a few weeks back was titled something like "Partisans are your friends" ... so issue known ... solution not ... at this point ...





Why not make the bases that are quite likely to switch sides early free of partisans until May '42?

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/1/2009 11:51:41 PM   
skrewball


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Status: offline 		Is there anyway to make abandoned bases spawn land based units that are hostile to the army that abandoned it?

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/2/2009 12:34:19 AM   
Sonny II

 

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/2/2009 12:36:22 AM   
XENXEN


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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Why not just assume that the owning side is using supplys or more supplys at the base to pay/feed local/civilian police forces to keep controle of the base. Make the base use supplys equel to that what a garrison unit would use or x2 or x3 times as much


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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/2/2009 2:19:06 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10228
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From: San Jose, CA
Status: offline 		Simplist option might be just to remove garrison requirements for Burma. There are millions of details are do not include - the real decision is which details to include versus which details to exclude. This detail might be best in the not included category.


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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/3/2009 9:39:44 AM   
Alfred

 

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Status: offline 		I like the idea that Allied bases in Allied colonies have a garrison requirement.  To mitigate against Allied withdrawal then return which currently seems to mainly penalise Japanese at little cost to Allies maybe you could consider the following.

Where Allies withdraw (or reduce below requisite level) their garrison from relevant bases, airfield and port suffers 100% damage and fortification level is reduced to zero.  If the Allies move a garrison back in before the Japanese arrive, then 100% of supply is lost.  Obviously the airfield/port would also have to be repaired for the base to be of value to the Allies.  On the other hand if the Japanese get to the base first before the Allies return, then all airfield/port damage is completely removed and the supply dump is undamaged for the benefit of the colonial "liberators".

Alfred

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/3/2009 10:21:42 AM   
Bluebook

 

Posts: 143
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Status: offline 		Yeah, it is a problem. On the other hand, it is a very simple houserule-fix. Allies must garrison Burma (and NEI?) cities to minimum level. It will also be a pretty good representation of the political situation at the time. While it allows some form of Sir Robin, it should prevent the ludicrous flight from the Japanese that some players employ.

I say, no more Sir Robin in Burma and NEI!  

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/3/2009 12:27:22 PM   
m10bob


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Status: offline 		If it is a problem, why not just create a static garrison unit for the cities of concern?

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/3/2009 1:32:37 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop

There is always the option to include a significant VP penalty to the side whose bases are overrun by partisans to reflect the hit to prestige over such an event happening?Slightly blunt tool but may have the desired effect, and although the supply rather than industry damage suggested may also work,it would not really penalise the allies..........Cheers
Ian


Actually my proposal was to have partisans cause a PP hit. I still think thats the best solution.

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RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/3/2009 1:46:06 PM   
erstad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger


quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop

There is always the option to include a significant VP penalty to the side whose bases are overrun by partisans to reflect the hit to prestige over such an event happening?Slightly blunt tool but may have the desired effect, and although the supply rather than industry damage suggested may also work,it would not really penalise the allies..........Cheers
Ian


Actually my proposal was to have partisans cause a PP hit. I still think thats the best solution.


That's clever! I like that one.

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Post #: 28
RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/3/2009 1:59:03 PM   
Caltone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger


quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop

There is always the option to include a significant VP penalty to the side whose bases are overrun by partisans to reflect the hit to prestige over such an event happening?Slightly blunt tool but may have the desired effect, and although the supply rather than industry damage suggested may also work,it would not really penalise the allies..........Cheers
Ian


Actually my proposal was to have partisans cause a PP hit. I still think thats the best solution.


That's clever! I like that one.



Sounds good to me too. Has the dev team considered this option?

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Post #: 29
RE: First anti-gaminess house rule for AE - 8/3/2009 4:39:18 PM   
Sonny II

 

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Status: offline 		We have considered many options.

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