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WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ?

 
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WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 3:08:28 PM   
hellfirejet


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Hi Guys,
I know it's a little bit early since WIF ain't even been released yet,but I was curious to find out if a modern day version has been considered Say 1970s - 2020.

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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 3:14:36 PM   
meisterchow


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Patton in Flames took up into a a theoretical confrontation with the Soviets and potentially extended the game into the 50's.  Don't think anything official has gone further than that.

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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 3:29:46 PM   
hellfirejet


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A large amount of the data information is already available in games like Harpoon,the problem is that Harpoon although a good game,just can't compete with the highly coloured graphics,counters,writeups and beauty of the map in WIF.

Once WIF has been operational for a while and any bugs fixed via updates,I just thought that if Matrix and the designers connected with WIF were in need of a new project,that a modern day one might be an option?

< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 7/22/2009 3:43:05 PM >


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Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 4:29:55 PM   
macgregor


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This is the thought that inspired me to ask to what extent the game might be editable. Certainly the game system would make quick work of most modern clashes. The kind of rulesmaking I think would require the participation of a dedicated community moreso than a game developer. Steve has essentially said this is way over the current horizon however. If down the road he could get contracted to build an editor, I think this type of game could be possible. I think any consideration for such a product would depend on the success of WiF product #1 and an activated fanbase to push such an editor.

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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 4:47:09 PM   
Mike Parker

 

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I think a translation into modern day would be a huge chore.  The maps are done to reflect the time period of WWII, I would think you would need all new maps, and a whole new OOB.  I Think the WiF system could do the job, but for 1970+ the map and OOB would just not be appropriate.

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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 5:31:44 PM   
composer99


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With an editor altering maps, units, etc. is easy (though it would indeed be time-consuming).

I am not certain that the WiF system is necessarily the best for representing modern/post-modern warfare, though.

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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 5:51:55 PM   
hellfirejet


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Well I feel that the modern era gaming world, is in need of a game of similar complexity scope & depth to War in the Pacific /World in Flames, the second world war is covered enough by these games,It's high time World War 1 & the cold war - Present got more attention!

I know WW1 is covered by games like GUNS OF AUGUST / LA GRANDE GUERRE 1914-1918 because I already have both games,both games are ok but they are not a patch compared to the detail and complexity of War in the Pacific or World in Flames.

I just wish I had the ability and programming knowledge to create these games, but I don't I'm just a Plumbing & Heating engineer.

< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 7/22/2009 6:07:04 PM >


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Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 6:35:52 PM   
sajbalk


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Well, the whole of the maps would need to be updated with changed resources, factories, rail lines, and cities.

In addition, the armed units would all have to be modeled at perhaps brigade size to give the player something to do. If corps size, the US would have, say, 6 army corps and 1 marine corps.

Finally, there have been no serious 1st world interstate wars since WWII that could be modeled using the WiFFE scale, maps, etc. This is due in no small part to the presence of nuclear weapons.

I don't think it is likely to be viable.



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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 6:50:02 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

With an editor altering maps, units, etc. is easy (though it would indeed be time-consuming).

I am not certain that the WiF system is necessarily the best for representing modern/post-modern warfare, though.

There are numerous weapon systems that would not work well in WIF (in my opinion). Depending on how far towards the modern day you go, there are more and more that become problematic. A single nuclear submarine is much more powerful that what is modeled by a submarine counter in WIF FE (multiple submarines). Helcopters and long range missiles would be difficult to model in the current design. Command and Control systems is one of the premier improvements versus circa WW II and there is virtually nothing in WIF about those.

I just see item after item requiring special (i.e., new) rules. Remember that each time you add something new, you need to decide how it is going to interact with all the existing rules. For example: helicopters as ATRs, providing ground strike/ground support, operating at sea, in air-to-air combat, etc.

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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 6:55:43 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I just see item after item requiring special (i.e., new) rules. Remember that each time you add something new, you need to decide how it is going to interact with all the existing rules. For example: helicopters as ATRs, providing ground strike/ground support, operating at sea, in air-to-air combat, etc.

Remark : There is a start of a rule about the helicopters with the AirCav rule (not included in MWiF).

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 7:18:07 PM   
hellfirejet


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I never said it would be easy to do,I just said I would like to see a game designed with the same detail and complexity of WITP/WIF ?

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Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to Froonp)
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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 7:24:29 PM   
Plain Ian

 

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There is a WW1 module or add on for the old WIF 5th Edition boardgame? Some people think that 5th Ed rules actually cater pretty well for WW1 once you take out most of the air rules and allow weird things like 'half hex' advances.
Fewer map changes but still a lot of new things to add or change in the MWIF program which would probably mean a fresh start rather than trying to bolt in onto MWIF as part of MWIF2.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet

Well I feel that the modern era gaming world, is in need of a game of similar complexity scope & depth to War in the Pacific /World in Flames, the second world war is covered enough by these games,It's high time World War 1 & the cold war - Present got more attention!

I know WW1 is covered by games like GUNS OF AUGUST / LA GRANDE GUERRE 1914-1918 because I already have both games,both games are ok but they are not a patch compared to the detail and complexity of War in the Pacific or World in Flames.

I just wish I had the ability and programming knowledge to create these games, but I don't I'm just a Plumbing & Heating engineer.


(in reply to hellfirejet)
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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 7:30:46 PM   
coregames


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There was a thread from before the Matrix site went down a few years back, that started in the MWiF forum and then moved to the General Discussion forum, pertaining to modifying WiF to incorporate an icosahedral projection rather than the current cyllindrical projection and its cropped northern and southern latitudes. I think you would need something much closer to spherical, such as a Fuller projection, to make the general mechanics of WiF work in a more modern setting, due to missiles, bombers and submarines utilizing the arctic routes. It would also make orbital considerations easier to keep track of.

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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 7:39:55 PM   
sajbalk


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There is a WWI variant for World in Flames. It is called Fatal Alliances (II). Counter sheets are here:

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/froon/WiF/counters/index.htm

The game is based on using the WiF5 European map, with a overlay over central Europe for the changes (add/remove factories, new countries, borders, etc.).
It worked quite well, but the time period as a whole is not fun to model or play at this scale.




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Steve Balk
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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 8:37:56 PM   
Kham

 

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Patton and America in Flames work with the WIf ruleset apart from a few special rules. Air Cav and flying panzers seem relatively easy but the whole political system for AIF would require some serious modding.

I kinda hope the heavy units and all that will be possible to create or purchase as an add-on down the line.

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RE: WORLD IN FLAMES PRESENT DAY ? - 7/22/2009 9:39:46 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kham

Patton and America in Flames work with the WIf ruleset apart from a few special rules. Air Cav and flying panzers seem relatively easy but the whole political system for AIF would require some serious modding.

I kinda hope the heavy units and all that will be possible to create or purchase as an add-on down the line.

Yes. I have the graphics already done for all the heavy units and the air cav. But putting in the extra rules is going to have to wait for a subsequent MWIF product. Mostly likely one that supports the two add-ons you mentioned.

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