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Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team!

 
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Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 12:53:35 PM   
Apollo11


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Hi all,

Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team!


I posted the below list in 2006 and reading the WitP-AE manual I think that all (if not all then most ) of the issues I and others suggested are done in WitP-AE!


Fantastic job guys - we are all in your great debt!


THANK YOU!!!


WitP dream (10 ultimate improvements / fixes)...



quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

(2/25/2006)

This is digest and expansion of a message I wrote 6+ months ago in which I listed several ideas I come up in 2+ years we have WitP...


First of all I must say that WitP is the _BEST_ wargame that I ever had and that I am enjoying it from Day1 and will be enjoying it in future as well!

Nonetheless there are certain minor/mayor things that I (and I think others) would like to see changed in future (possible WitP v2.x in few months/years time).

I know that it is very late in WitP development and that programmers time (thanks again Mike Wood - you are our hero!!! ) is very very limited but things might change in the future and, hopefully, WitP and it's legion of faithful followers would be revisited!


Below 10 ultimate improvements / fixe are, IMHO, the most important ones that are worth perusing (hopefully) in future (if it would be possible)... with those the WitP, again IMHO, would be almost best possible and our gaming experience would be even greater...


#1 Ammo replenishment should be depending on port size

In current WitP we can replenish ammo of almost any ship in any port size.

IMHO it is impossible to believe that some lowly port size 3 would have, for example, 16" shells for BBs.

This should be altered to reflect historical situation and something simple could be implemented (numbers are just for example):

port size 1-3 : ammo for all guns up to 5"
port size 4-6 : ammo for all guns up to 8"
port size 7-9 : ammo for all guns

NOTE:
For simplicity sake the AI should not be bound with this - this should only be valid for human player!

[EDIT]
The rule above would have exception when supplied AE (at least port size 1 + at least 20,000 supply) would be present in port.



#2 Number of ships anchored should be depending on SPS for port size

In current WitP we can anchor as many ships as we want in any port size that is larger than 3 (and that makes all those ships 100% safe from submarines and mines).

There was a specific reason why during WWII in the Pacific USN and IJN could use only certain places as bases for their fleets (due to good geographic properties of those special places) but in our current WitP we are free to, unhistorical, do what we want regarding this...

IMHO this should be altered and something simple could be implemented (numbers are just for example):

SPS port size 3 : MAX number of anchored ships = 10
SPS port size 4 : MAX number of anchored ships = 15
SPS port size 5 : MAX number of anchored ships = 25
SPS port size 6 : MAX number of anchored ships = 50
SPS port size 7 : MAX number of anchored ships = 75
SPS port size 8 : MAX number of anchored ships = 100
SPS port size 9 : MAX number of anchored ships = 150

NOTE:
For simplicity sake the AI should not be bound with this - this should only be valid for human player!



#3 Number of ships loading/unloading should be depending on port size

In current WitP we can load/unload as many ships as we want in any port.

But during WWII in the Pacific USN and IJN had serious problem with port congestions (in Noumea, for example, some ships had to wait for weeks to be loaded/unloaded)....

IMHO this should be altered and something simple could be implemented (numbers are just for example):

port size 1 : MAX number of loading/unloading ships = 1
port size 2 : MAX number of loading/unloading ships = 3
port size 3 : MAX number of loading/unloading ships = 5
port size 4 : MAX number of loading/unloading ships = 10
port size 5 : MAX number of loading/unloading ships = 15
port size 6 : MAX number of loading/unloading ships = 25
port size 7 : MAX number of loading/unloading ships = 35
port size 8 : MAX number of loading/unloading ships = 50
port size 9 : MAX number of loading/unloading ships = 75
port size 10 : MAX number of loading/unloading ships = 100

NOTE:
For simplicity sake the AI should not be bound with this - this should only be valid for human player!



#4 Absolute maximum for aircraft operating from airfields

Right now it is possible to abuse the WitP game engine by overcrowding airbases and still achieve enormous air strikes as early as 1942.

This is real and serious problem!

IMHO there should be more effective (and absolute) limit for aircraft operating from airfields based on airfield size.


The best WitP community proposal so far regarding this is that we start counting aircraft engines instead of airframes for airfield capacity...

So... if airbase is size 4 it can currently host 4 x 50 = 200 MAX aircraft. But if we would count engines it would only mean that 200 single engines can be there or 100 2 engines or just 50 4 engines...



#5 "Diminishing returns" for all kind of troops depending on base size]

Right now we can place as many troops as we want anywhere in WitP world.

If we want we can place 10 divisions even on smallest atoll which is very very wrong...

Since WitP is all about bases and we already have SPS ("Standard Potential Size") values for all bases why not introduce "diminishing returns" for all troop actions in specific base HEX?

That way combat would be more accurate because surplus troops would not be able to participate and base building would also be more accurate because surplus ENG troops would no be able to participate.

This would effectively (and simply I might add) fix several problems we might encounter in WitP troop stacking (numbers are just for example - SPS can be MAX 9):

combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 0: MAX number of land units available for combat = 1
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 0: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 1
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 1: MAX number of land units available for combat = 2
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 1: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 1
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 2: MAX number of land units available for combat = 3
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 2: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 2
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 3: MAX number of land units available for combat = 4
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 3: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 2
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 4: MAX number of land units available for combat = 5
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 4: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 2
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 5: MAX number of land units available for combat = 6
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 5: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 3
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 6: MAX number of land units available for combat = 7
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 6: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 3
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 7: MAX number of land units available for combat = 8
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 7: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 3
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 8: MAX number of land units available for combat = 9
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 8: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 3
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 9: MAX number of land units available for combat = 10
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 9: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 4
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 10: MAX number of land units available for combat = 11
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 10: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 4
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 11: MAX number of land units available for combat = 12
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 11: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 4
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 12: MAX number of land units available for combat = 13
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 12: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 4
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 13: MAX number of land units available for combat = 14
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 13: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 4
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 14: MAX number of land units available for combat = 15
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 14: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 5
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 15: MAX number of land units available for combat = 16
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 15: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 5
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 16: MAX number of land units available for combat = 17
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 16: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 5
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 17: MAX number of land units available for combat = 18
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 17: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 5
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 18: MAX number of land units available for combat = 18
combined SPS (Port+Airfield) 18: MAX number of ENG units available for building = 5

NOTE:
One other WitP player ("AmiralLaurent" ) suggested that instead of units we count squads - this is even better idea!



#6 Setting Supply / Fuel / Oil / Resource user selected MIN limits for bases

Right now in WitP we are at mercy of AI for internal distribution of Supply / Fuel / Oil / Resource.

What about giving user ability to set Supply / Fuel / Oil / Resource MIN limits he/she wishes the base to posses?

That way we would 100% sure avoid unnecessary automatic transfer of Supply / Fuel / Oil / Resource as AI for internal distribution wishes!



#7 Better Air to Air large combat

The current WitP large Air to Air combat is too bloody (i.e. too many downed aircraft and lopsided results).

Although no simple solution was found by developers this issue is still very very much worth investigating!



#8 Better Air Naval Search and Air ASW

I discovered (see my extensive tests) that currently every single pilot tasked with Air Naval Search and/or Air ASW flies (if passed various checks to see whether he flies or not) through every single HEX inside his range (as set via range dial in GUI) and has possibility to discover every enemy ships / submarine in those HEXes (deepening on various factors).

This is describable as concentric circles or spiral movement.

As I showed in my tests (and many other players confirmed during their games) even one single aircraft on search can discover several enemy ships / submarines and in some PBEMs the lists of discovered ships / submarines lasts for minutes in combat replays (i.e. there are that many discovered ships / submarines).

IMHO this should be checked and, if possible, redesigned because current way of implementing Air Naval Search and Air ASW is 100% unrealistic (there is no way every single search aircraft can check every single HEX in his range)...



#9 Level bomber accuracy and AA

a)
AA should be affected by time of day (day/night) and weather (we already have info on how is the weather over target so why don't we use it some more).

In day and good weather (i.e. best case scenario) the AA should be best and cause more damage than at night and bad weather (i.e. worst case scenario).

- day + clear
- day + partly cloudy
- day + overcast
- day + rain(snow in cold zones in winter)
- day + thunderstorms (blizzard in cold zones in winter)
- night + clear
- night + partly cloudy
- night + overcast
- night + rain(snow in cold zones in winter)
- night + thunderstorms (blizzard in cold zones in winter)


b)
Level bombers should be affected by time of day (day/night) and weather (we already have info on how is the weather over target so why don't we use it some more)!

In day and good weather (i.e. best case scenario) the bombers should be best and cause more damage than at night and bad weather (i.e. worst case scenario).

- day + clear
- day + partly cloudy
- day + overcast
- day + rain(snow in cold zones in winter)
- day + thunderstorms (blizzard in cold zones in winter)
- night + clear
- night + partly cloudy
- night + overcast
- night + rain(snow in cold zones in winter)
- night + thunderstorms (blizzard in cold zones in winter)


c)
Heavy AA concentrations should throw of aim for level bombers (i.e. disrupt them).

More experienced bomber crews should suffer less but they should still suffer (i.e. in WWII anyways much of AA was indented to create strong barrage effect to drive incoming bombers off aim).


d)
The AA effect against level bombers should be increased overall and they should suffer devastating damage when flying low in area that was protected by significant AA (if all other conditions are met like time of day and weather).

Right now even several regiments of AA (100+ 75mm and 105mm AA guns) are almost useless against, for example, B-17 attacking from 10000 ft in broad daylight and clear weather which should not be the case at all (slow flying and big B-17 should present ideal targets for AA)...


e)
The so-called "altitude gap" that now exists should be a bit narrower.

Guns with max of 26K feet have a min of 7K in current WitP
Guns with max of 28K feet have a min of 7K in current WitP
Guns with max of 30K feet have a min of 8K in current WitP
Guns with max of 34K feet have a min of 9K in current WitP


f)
IMHO we still have way too precise attacks in WitP. Navigation was very hard in WWII PTO and much more 4E and 2E level bombers should fail to find proper targets. More experienced bomber crews should suffer less but they should still suffer.



#10 Better Air to Naval targeting (number of attacking aircraft more depending of perceived enemy ship number/type)

In WitP we already have limited info about enemy and under this (i.e. FoW = "Fog of War") we can many times get wrong info about enemy TFs for both number and ship type.

So... why not actually use this sometimes "flawed" info (just as it would be in real confusing war) for actual Air to Naval targeting?

Right now it is possible to "tire", for example, the enemy CV air crews by simply "feeding" them "bait" targets (i.e. if you want to lure/expose full strength of enemy CV air force you simply offer it few insignificant targets - like AKs/APs - and they would attack it in full strength whilst your own CV air force would wait them to "tire" and only then strike them)...

My idea is simple - the number of attacking aircraft (whether from CVs or from land) vs. sighted enemy TF (or TFs) should _ALWAYS_ be _DIRECTLY_ linked with number/type of enemy ships sighted in TF (or TFs)!

Therefore even in with multiple target rich environment the attacking aircraft would always attack with appropriate strength and even if available the "surplus" strength (i.e. number of excess available attacking aircraft) would not be used as deemed by commander.

This means that if there is enemy TF with, let's say, just 2x AK escorted by 1x DD your whole air strength (and you have, let's say, 27x dive bombers + 27x torpedo bombers + 27x fighters on 1x CV) would not be send - only appropriate (as deemed by commander) attacking number of aircraft would be send: 9x dive bomber + 9x torpedo bomber +9x fighter (if there is possible enemy CAP).

Please note that this would still allow for possible "screw ups" (like "Coral Sea Battle") because FoW can distort the sighted enemy TFs and thus trigger wrong response from commander - therefore we don't loose the uncertainty effect!


Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 1
RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 12:54:43 PM   
Speedy

 

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Agreed

Except not where T and Nik are concerned

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 1:00:13 PM   
DivePac88


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Ditto

and also thank you to Nik and T.

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 1:24:30 PM   
Speedy

 

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DivePac if you really knew what they got upto 'behind the scenes' you wouldn't be thanking them

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 1:27:18 PM   
Fishbed


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Especially Nick: Look, his own Kates know so much better, they don't even bother taking off to go fight and die for him 

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 1:42:57 PM   
Speedy

 

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Exactly! Forget "Banzai"! More like "Overboard"!

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 1:44:37 PM   
DivePac88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

DivePac if you really knew what they got upto 'behind the scenes' you wouldn't be thanking them


I thank everybody… even if they fender bender me in traffic. Always have, because it makes life easier.

Oh... and Speedy thank you too.

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 1:45:11 PM   
Speedy

 

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No problem....anytime

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 3:19:08 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

DivePac if you really knew what they got upto 'behind the scenes' you wouldn't be thanking them


Pffft... You're just jealous that we don't let you play anymore...

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 3:20:04 PM   
SuluSea


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Yes most definately, an enormous thanks, there's no telling how many hours the team sacrificed for the good of the community.

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 3:32:22 PM   
che200


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Thank you guys for all the time you spent make the game better for all of us.

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 4:14:56 PM   
crsutton


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Yeah, thanks. I do appreciate the work.

BTW, now that things are wrapping up you guys will probably have some time on your hands. I could use a little help painting my house this summer. Just a suggestion.....

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 4:24:45 PM   
Speedy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

DivePac if you really knew what they got upto 'behind the scenes' you wouldn't be thanking them


Pffft... You're just jealous that we don't let you play anymore...


Correction: I chose not too

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 4:25:32 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yeah, thanks. I do appreciate the work.

BTW, now that things are wrapping up you guys will probably have some time on your hands. I could use a little help painting my house this summer. Just a suggestion.....


Actually, things aren't wrapping up. There's still post-release support expected of us.

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 4:25:49 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

DivePac if you really knew what they got upto 'behind the scenes' you wouldn't be thanking them


Pffft... You're just jealous that we don't let you play anymore...


Correction: I chose not too


Whatever you have to tell yourself.

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 4:27:42 PM   
Speedy

 

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"Talk to the han...errrr......toe"

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 4:42:45 PM   
pasternakski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team!

Yah. Enormous tanks to all you guys (but I'm saving the ammunition - I mean - admiration for after seeing this sucker in action).





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by pasternakski -- 7/20/2009 4:43:02 PM >


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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 4:45:12 PM   
Terminus


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My enormous tank is bigger than your enormous tank...




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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 4:52:43 PM   
Speedy

 

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Pffft. At least 'his' enormous tank has some credentials to its name

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 5:01:07 PM   
pasternakski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

My enormous tank is bigger than your enormous tank...

Maybe so, but I got more of 'em, so there.

Besides, isn't yours a TD? Leave it to you to have a misshapen, grotesque, wrongly named appendage...

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 6:00:21 PM   
Terminus


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That's an E-100 tank. 140 tons, 128mm gun and a co-axial 75mm.

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 9:03:03 PM   
pasternakski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That's an E-100 tank. 140 tons, 128mm gun and a co-axial 75mm.

I don't care. you still have a misshapen, grotesque, wrongly named appendage.

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/20/2009 9:28:58 PM   
Xxzard

 

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lol coaxial 75mm

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/21/2009 5:19:49 AM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That's an E-100 tank. 140 tons, 128mm gun and a co-axial 75mm.

I don't care. you still have a misshapen, grotesque, wrongly named appendage.


And you're still a lazy, no-good, long-bearded beach bum...

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/21/2009 5:32:03 AM   
byron13


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Erik:

You should know that the support team for Matrix or whoever handles the websites computer stuff are doing a great job as well. I had completely lost just about everything I needed to log in and download the manual. My e-mail had changed, so I couldn't request the info be sent to me automatically. They were able to find my data, make smart decisions on how to get it to work, and get it to me very quickly - and on a Sunday! (At least it was Sunday in the U.S. - whether the support folks are in CONUS or possibly on the other side of the Int'l dateline or not, I don't know). I am one happy camper now that I got me a manual and can ask dumb questions.

Thought you'd like to know.

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/21/2009 2:27:45 PM   
pasternakski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
And you're still a lazy, no-good, long-bearded beach bum...

Thank you. At least you recognize talent when you see it...





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/22/2009 12:20:35 AM   
TalonCG2


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Yes, a huge thank you!

We know how big a task it is making mods for games Leo... Falcon4 RPGroup.

I can't imagine the effort that has gone into making AE. Our puny efforts with F4 are dwarfed by this project.



_____________________________

Clear skies and tailwinds,
Chuck

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 27
RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/22/2009 8:28:28 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23507
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: TalonCG2

Yes, a huge thank you!

We know how big a task it is making mods for games Leo... Falcon4 RPGroup.

I can't imagine the effort that has gone into making AE. Our puny efforts with F4 are dwarfed by this project.



Ahh... let us not be so modest... in our F4 "Realism Patch Group" project we had to do all things by ourselves using reverse engineering (i.e. there was no editor and there was no source code)...

I would settle with constatation that both projects were of same magnitude!

Nice to see you here Chuck!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to TalonCG2)
Post #: 28
RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/22/2009 8:31:58 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41452
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
"constatation"?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 29
RE: Enormous thanks and admiration to WitP-AE team! - 7/22/2009 8:33:03 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23507
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

"constatation"?


"T", it is still too early in the morning to properly think and type...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 30
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