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Name This AE...376

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Name This AE...376 Page: [1]
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Name This AE...376 - 7/12/2009 6:48:47 PM   
Brady


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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/12/2009 6:50:27 PM   
SimHq Tom Cofield

 

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Status: offline 		Omaha?



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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/12/2009 6:54:24 PM   
SimHq Tom Cofield

 

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USS Detroit.



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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/12/2009 7:33:49 PM   
jmscho

 

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Status: offline 		USS Detroit, 11 April 1944

http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/008/0400811.jpg

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 12:49:31 AM   
Mynok


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A pretty little four stacker.....I'd like to see the casemate guns go, only one mast and a shorter one up front....but nice lines nonetheless.


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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 2:58:28 AM   
TOMLABEL


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmscho

USS Detroit, 11 April 1944

http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/008/0400811.jpg


Specifically in Measure 33, 3D.

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 3:30:32 AM   
RevRick


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Status: offline 		Yeah. Those casement guns harken back to the late 19th century. I would much rather seen them built (or rebuilt, for that matter) with 4 twin 6" mounts instead of that slumgullion mess they had. I'd think with as much weight topside and as far out toward the beams that this thing had she's be very, very tender. She's probably scare the bejesus out of the bridge crew on a deep roll.

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 3:06:45 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Yeah. Those casement guns harken back to the late 19th century. I would much rather seen them built (or rebuilt, for that matter) with 4 twin 6" mounts instead of that slumgullion mess they had. I'd think with as much weight topside and as far out toward the beams that this thing had she's be very, very tender. She's probably scare the bejesus out of the bridge crew on a deep roll.

Detroit had 10 x 6" guns, 4 in very narrow turrets, and 6 in casemates. Beam was extremely narrow to my eye - here is a pic of her demonstrating this:




Attachment (1)

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 3:10:31 PM   
rtrapasso


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Status: offline 		Here's another pic showing this - note the back of the top casements are actually exposed:




Attachment (1)

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 3:13:04 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

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Status: offline 		Never knew that. Although when you look at the twin mount it seems obvious.

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 5:07:59 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Status: offline 		The Omahas were designed as "destroyer leaders" so it made sense to make them as narrow-hulled as possible to keep their speed high.  But, that arrangement of guns had to be a complicated mess to direct; were the casemated guns tied to the directors or were they manually aimed?

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 6:35:05 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Here's another pic showing this - note the back of the top casements are actually exposed:





Is that just part of the recoil mechanism or did the thing require loading from outside? The armor on the casement might stop splinters but it doesnt look like it would even stop a 5" round.


It does look very 19th Century. Remember the Maine!

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 6:52:48 PM   
Brady


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USS Detroit, it is

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 8:56:29 PM   
bjmorgan


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Status: offline 		How about some of you swabbies out there tell me (a ground pounder) why casement mounts wen't away.  I always thought they would have been pretty useful, except perhaps that they limited the field of fire.

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 9:04:31 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

How about some of you swabbies out there tell me (a ground pounder) why casement mounts wen't away.  I always thought they would have been pretty useful, except perhaps that they limited the field of fire.

Yep - limited field of fire, and limited elevation, which limited range.

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 9:13:04 PM   
wdolson

 

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Status: offline 		It also became US Navy parctice that anything 5 inches and under was used for AA, those guns needs to turn quickly to track targets as well as have almost vertical elevation.  On larger ships, 5 inch turrets became the norm and they were the main armament of ships like DDs. 

On ships like CVEs, the 5 inch gun just had a gun shield.  At the battle off Samar, the 5 inch guns on the CVEs (one per ship on the stern) engaged Japanese surface ships and actually scored a few hits.  On one of the CVEs a chief joked with gallows humor that they were drawing  the Japanese into 40mm range.

Bill


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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 9:15:31 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Status: offline 		Plus casemated guns were harder to direct from a remote location, and easier to knock out with one large caliber hit.  Each single gun had to be armored and get its own shell hoist supply system, which added unnecessary weight to the ships.  Turrets concentrated the guns in one easy to protect and supply location rather than spreading them all along the hull.

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 9:16:16 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

It also became US Navy parctice that anything 5 inches and under was used for AA, those guns needs to turn quickly to track targets as well as have almost vertical elevation.  On larger ships, 5 inch turrets became the norm and they were the main armament of ships like DDs. 

On ships like CVEs, the 5 inch gun just had a gun shield.  At the battle off Samar, the 5 inch guns on the CVEs (one per ship on the stern) engaged Japanese surface ships and actually scored a few hits.  On one of the CVEs a chief joked with gallows humor that they were drawing  the Japanese into 40mm range.

Bill


True, but these are 6" guns... not terribly useful for AA fire, for the most part... i think casement guns dropped their range about 50% or so on average for this size guns.

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/13/2009 9:24:12 PM   
mikemike

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Is that just part of the recoil mechanism or did the thing require loading from outside? The armor on the casement might stop splinters but it doesnt look like it would even stop a 5" round.


It does look very 19th Century. Remember the Maine!


As the breech of the gun is clearly outside the enclosure, the armor protects just the training/elevation mechanism, the recoil mechanism, and gunlayer and -trainer. The loaders and ammo handlers are out of luck.

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/14/2009 3:24:06 AM   
Hornblower


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Status: offline 		She looks more Brit then American doesn't she?   OT question, how do you folks use them in the game?  I always used mine in the DEI out of darwin untill there are sufficent Clevlands to use in the 1 or 2 Surface TF's in that area.  After that i use them for escorts in cargo/transport with the DE's and older DD's

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/14/2009 3:45:18 AM   
Mynok


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I don't use them. I sink them.


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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/14/2009 2:10:35 PM   
bjmorgan


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Status: offline 		Thanks, guys.  That made sense.

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/14/2009 4:06:47 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		A very nice looking DL!  Wonder how they would have faired toe-to-toe against their Japanese contemparies (Naka-Class)?

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RE: Name This AE...376 - 7/14/2009 4:29:08 PM   
SimHq Tom Cofield

 

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Status: offline 		Casemate guns were often mounted at the hull line as well. In addition to the limited traverse and limited elevation talked about before it was found that casemates placed in the hull were often useless when the ship maneuvered at high speed or if the seas were rough. Splash would make the ships very wet.

Casemates went out with the arrival of the modern cruiser. The Omaha's were a hybrid of the two times. They held a lot of the same features of the older protected and armored cruisers of the 1900s while at the same time mounted the high speed and range of more modern cruisers. That was the reason they survived the slaughter of the ACs right after WW1 while more powerful, but slower ships were put out to pasture.

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