Big B
Posts: 4031
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Behind the Orange Curtain
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Actually guys, I think most of the major engagements of the American Revolutionary War had 11,000 - 14,000+ men arrayed on each side.
Siege of Boston 1776, Long Island (or Brooklyn Heights)1776, White Plains 1776, Brandywine Creek 1777, Germantown 1777, Monmouth Courthouse 1778 - all come to mind. I can't remember the forces engaged at Saratoga.
Really, it was only after the stalemate in the main theater of war (New Jersey - New York - Pennsylvania, after Monmouth) and the war shifted south - that the major battles got smaller. Heck, as I recall the Long Island campaign started with 20,000 to 30,000 men arrayed on each side ... before the maneuvering and garrisoning started draining strength.
Anyway, Happy 4th Of July!
And I hope we last a bit longer 
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233 years old... And you guys don't look a day over 217. Mazel Tov!
And compared to your lot, (Denmark and our other European friends) we are virtual children! Thanks Dad!  
Well, you could learn that in term of Republic, you're older than much of the european country. I think some of the "younger" in europe are Nederlands and France (not sure, so please don't take offense if i am wrong). In a kind of way, United States of America show the way to "old" european countries.
Younger in years, not in spirit! Besides, let's not forget how many French troops where there with Rochambeau and the Compt De Grasse! They too shared in the creation of our republic! While France would wait a short time for it's own republic, we owe them a great deal of thanks for ours! Sop Viva La France! And thank you!
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From what i remenber, most of the "american" thinkers (like Jefferson, Adams and ben Franklin) went to europe, and learn of the "age of light", from mens like Rousseau, Diderot, and even Montesquieu (although this one is from the previous century). The idea of some new kind of political state was in the brain, but of course, in old europe, most thinkers didn't dare speak or write too openly: most european monarchy were supposed of divine rights. The idea, like a seed, grow in a part of a country wich fell less and less unity with it's european part.
As soon as USA declared it's independance, and in the few years following, the idea of republic (and in some kind of way democracy) raised and developp in USA...and this time, the european thinkers learn from the american because they had tested and tryed what was just theory until then.
And i am pretty sure the help given to the new USA by France was much much in order to annoy hour thousand-year ennemy, the english !!
About the amount of troups: even if French, i am inclined to think the american won their independance by themselves: there was something like 8000 french soldiers at the most in the independance war. Not really much.
Actually, 8,000 men was not insignificant in the late 1700s, especially considering how far away from home they were. And it was more the principle of the thing, i.e. that France has intervened, and the war might shortly be fought on more than one front.
Terminus is right, 8,000 men were a very significant number considering the battles were fought with 5,000 total (both sides) ! And no other country had a fleet that could challenge Britian. The colonies would not have a single ship of the line, till after the war. De Grasse made Yorktown possible.
You are quite right. I do not think enough Americans understand the importance of the help, monetarily and militarily , that the French gave us in our fight for freedom. To me it does not matter if the help came mainly because the French wanted to get back at the British, they helped us when we needed it the most.
OK you guys: 8000 mens on the whoole american front was for France something like a logistical chalenge. I still think France could have done more ? Even in the 7 year war, France had hard time to send troops to Montcalm in Canada. The british didn't had too much difficulties: it depend on the fact that Britain could defend it's shore with the "wooden walls" of her ships; France had to take kare of it's borders with troops.
During Independance war, France mainly ask volontaries in the beginning (Lafayette). Later came the regular troops of Rochambeau. But i didn't remenber that the sum of troops was so "light" during the differents battles.
Anyway,what is sure is that (i've taken back my history books this morning) Louis XVI, king of France, had some good feeling with the idea of republic. Of course, he wasn't ready to give up it's power (you can see it during the French revolution), but he was ready to make some political changes. In France, he never had the opportunities to do it: their was resistance from ministries, nobles, and so on; during the revolution, the changes were not enough for the revolutionnaries.
But, 20 years before, Louis XVI was much enclined to help a borning nation because it was "enlighten" by the new political ideas of the french thinkers, and may be this could be later a friendly nation (at this time, the power of France made that few countries were really friend with France, and (sorry for our english threadster) England was delivering some money to the countries in Europe who would keep away from France.
To finish: the whole reason of the help given to USA is in fact complicated by all the geopolitical hints of the era.
Anyway: enjoy your national day (surprisingly, in France,for 14th july not much people remenber what it's all about)
< Message edited by Big B -- 7/4/2009 10:21:52 PM >
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