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A few questions about the rules

 
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A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 11:41:37 AM   
Caquineur


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Hello everyone,

Could you help to become by answering those questions ?

11.16.3 HQ support (option 13)
Support
After all land attacks are declared, the inactive side announces HQ support for target hexes. You can only allocate 1 face-up HQ to support each hex. It must be in, or adjacent to, the target hex. It can’t provide support to a unit it does not co-operate with, to an adjacent hex if it is separated from it by an impassable hexside, or if its own hex is also being attacked.

  • How could a HQ provide support to a unit in the same hex it is in ("in ... the target hex") without having its own hex being attacked ?


11.16.5 Resolving attacks
AsA/MiF/PoliF option 2: Divisions count as 1/2 a unit (rounding up).

  • Does it mean that 1 division = 2 divisions = 1 corps or army = 1 unit ?


14.4 CV units
A carrier plane can fly a mission to any hex in range. Measure the range from any hex-dot in the CV’s sea area (it’s usually best to pick the hex-dot closest to your target). A carrier plane can fly, and return from, a port attack mission that is out of range, if the port is adjacent to any hexdot in the sea area.

  • How could a carrier plane be out of range if the port is adjacent to any hexdot in the sea area ?


Thanks for your help, gentlemen - of course, should there be a member of the gentler gender here, do not hesitate to speak

Alain
Post #: 1
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 11:58:36 AM   
Joseignacio


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From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caquineur

Hello everyone,

Could you help to become by answering those questions ?

11.16.3 HQ support (option 13)
Support
After all land attacks are declared, the inactive side announces HQ support for target hexes. You can only allocate 1 face-up HQ to support each hex. It must be in, or adjacent to, the target hex. It can’t provide support to a unit it does not co-operate with, to an adjacent hex if it is separated from it by an impassable hexside, or if its own hex is also being attacked.

  • How could a HQ provide support to a unit in the same hex it is in ("in ... the target hex") without having its own hex being attacked ?


11.16.5 Resolving attacks
AsA/MiF/PoliF option 2: Divisions count as 1/2 a unit (rounding up).

  • Does it mean that 1 division = 2 divisions = 1 corps or army = 1 unit ?


14.4 CV units
A carrier plane can fly a mission to any hex in range. Measure the range from any hex-dot in the CV’s sea area (it’s usually best to pick the hex-dot closest to your target). A carrier plane can fly, and return from, a port attack mission that is out of range, if the port is adjacent to any hexdot in the sea area.

  • How could a carrier plane be out of range if the port is adjacent to any hexdot in the sea area ?


Thanks for your help, gentlemen - of course, should there be a member of the gentler gender here, do not hesitate to speak

Alain



Alain, my interpretation:

1- An HQ can give HQ support to the hex where it is or any adjacent hex. Exception: If the HQ hex is being attacked at the same time, then it cannot give HQ support to the adjacent ( I think it could give to it`s own hex however).

2- A division counts like 1/2 corps. It means:

2 corps = 2 units.
2 corps + 1 div = 2,5 units=3 units.
2 corps + 2 div = 3 units.

3- I think we are speaking of planes that fly from their ship in a certain sea to a hexdot adjacent to a port. I cannot have a wif map now but I think that could be the case of sending a plane from a carrier in (to be continued)



< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 6/17/2009 12:05:56 PM >

(in reply to Caquineur)
Post #: 2
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 12:09:53 PM   
Caquineur


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From: Aix en Provence, France, Europe
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quote:

Alain, my interpretation:

A HQ can give HQ support to the hex where it is or any adjacent hex. Exception: If the HQ hex is being attacked at the same time, then it cannot give HQ support to the adjacent ( I think it could give to it`s own hex however).


Muchas gracias, José Ignacio.

Now that I've read your answer, it seems quite obvious. I really should stop seeing problems where there aren't any...

quote:

2- A division counts like 1/2 corps. It means:

2 corps = 2 units.
2 corps + 1 div = 2,5 units=3 units.
2 corps + 2 div = 3 units.


OK, so I guess the formula "1 division = 2 divisions = 1 corps or army = 1 unit" is OK.

Alain

< Message edited by Caquineur -- 6/17/2009 12:13:42 PM >

(in reply to Joseignacio)
Post #: 3
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 12:19:51 PM   
Joseignacio


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caquineur

quote:

Alain, my interpretation:

A HQ can give HQ support to the hex where it is or any adjacent hex. Exception: If the HQ hex is being attacked at the same time, then it cannot give HQ support to the adjacent ( I think it could give to it`s own hex however).


Muchas gracias, José Ignacio.

Now that I've read your answer, it seems quite obvious. I really should stop seeing problems where there aren't any...

Alain


De rien

It happens to me all the time, not only not undertanding, but what is worse, sometimes "understanding them wrong"...

As for the thid one, I have been trying to see a map online but I guess it is about one fleet, for example close to the notrh pole that sends a plane from a carrier to a hexdot adjacent to a port like Arkhangelsk (I cannot see the map so I don't know if thi is possible), the bomber would not need to be able to reach arkhangelsk, but only the hexdot adjacent. It needs only to reach the hexdot to be able to attack any of the ports that are adjacent to it.


< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 6/17/2009 12:20:11 PM >

(in reply to Caquineur)
Post #: 4
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 12:21:55 PM   
Joseignacio


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quote:

2- A division counts like 1/2 corps. It means:

2 corps = 2 units.
2 corps + 1 div = 2,5 units=3 units.
2 corps + 2 div = 3 units.


OK, so I guess the formula "1 division = 2 divisions = 1 corps or army = 1 unit" is OK.

Alain


It depends. Is ok as far as there are no more divisions involved. If any, then you need to sum them all as 0,5 corps and the round the result up.

1 division= 2 divisions= 1 corps
2divisions= 1 corps
3 divisions= 4 divisions= 2 corps

...

(in reply to Caquineur)
Post #: 5
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 12:25:49 PM   
Caquineur


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quote:

As for the thid one, I have been trying to see a map online but I guess it is about one fleet, for example close to the notrh pole that sends a plane from a carrier to a hexdot adjacent to a port like Arkhangelsk (I cannot see the map so I don't know if thi is possible), the bomber would not need to be able to reach arkhangelsk, but only the hexdot adjacent. It needs only to reach the hexdot to be able to attack any of the ports that are adjacent to it.


As, according to the rules, one can "measure the range from any hex-dot in the CV’s sea area", I don't understand how a unit could be out of range of any adjacent hex-dot ?

Thank you very much for your time, it's great to get answers so fast

(in reply to Caquineur)
Post #: 6
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 12:29:41 PM   
Caquineur


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quote:

quote:

OK, so I guess the formula "1 division = 2 divisions = 1 corps or army = 1 unit" is OK.

Alain


It depends. Is ok as far as there are no more divisions involved. If any, then you need to sum them all as 0,5 corps and the round the result up.

1 division= 2 divisions= 1 corps
2divisions= 1 corps
3 divisions= 4 divisions= 2 corps

...


Yes, you're right, that's what I meant, but it's clearer as you worded it.


(in reply to Joseignacio)
Post #: 7
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 12:33:03 PM   
Joseignacio


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No problem, I have few work by now.

I think the rule means that the plane would be out of range to reach the port but not to reach the hexdot .

However, if I am not wrong, the planes can only reach the hexes within their range as a general rule, it's not like the ground units that can reach always the adjacent hex.

It means a plane with a range of less than 6 cannot reach a hex-dot from a sea. But if it can (range 6 or more) it can bomb any port adjacent to that hex-dot even if it's range would not let it reach (theoretically) that port.

(in reply to Caquineur)
Post #: 8
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 12:51:34 PM   
Caquineur


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quote:

I think the rule means that the plane would be out of range to reach the port


That is the part I do not understand (and believe me, I'm trying ) : as one can "measure the range from any hex-dot in the CV’s sea area", I really don't understand how a carrier plane could be out of range of a port, if this port is adjacent to at least one hexdot in the sea area ?
Unless some carrier planes have '0' range ?


(in reply to Joseignacio)
Post #: 9
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 1:09:47 PM   
Greywolf

 

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For a CvP to be out of range is fairly easy, some old CvP have very small ranges, and a hexagone in the outside Box is 4 hex away in range (IIRC), Pacific/Asia map is 2 hex, so the CvP could be out of range of the adjacent hexes without the rule clarification.

_____________________________

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Post #: 10
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 1:32:27 PM   
Caquineur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

For a CvP to be out of range is fairly easy, some old CvP have very small ranges, and a hexagone in the outside Box is 4 hex away in range (IIRC), Pacific/Asia map is 2 hex, so the CvP could be out of range of the adjacent hexes without the rule clarification.


OK thanks, I think I understand now : the range is reduced as specified in "11.3 Naval air missions" : "...Reduce its range by the same number it would have cost to enter the section it came from (i.e. 10 from the 4 section, 6 from the 3 section, and so on)".

I had completely forgotten that.

Thank you both for your help !

(in reply to Greywolf)
Post #: 11
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 3:09:09 PM   
lavisj

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caquineur

OK thanks, I think I understand now : the range is reduced as specified in "11.3 Naval air missions" : "...Reduce its range by the same number it would have cost to enter the section it came from (i.e. 10 from the 4 section, 6 from the 3 section, and so on)".

I had completely forgotten that.

Thank you both for your help !


This does not apply to CVP, but to planes moving from a Sea Box back to land during naval air missions.
CVP start at the hex dot, and do not have to count from their sea box. (14.4).

You were correct previsouly in the fact that a CVP will always be in range of a hex bordered by a hex dot in the sea zone the CVP is in.

Jerome

(in reply to Caquineur)
Post #: 12
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 4:03:11 PM   
Caquineur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lavisj

This does not apply to CVP, but to planes moving from a Sea Box back to land during naval air missions.
CVP start at the hex dot, and do not have to count from their sea box. (14.4).

You were correct previsouly in the fact that a CVP will always be in range of a hex bordered by a hex dot in the sea zone the CVP is in.

Jerome



Thanks, Jerome !

So, if I understand you correctly, the sentence "A carrier plane can fly, and return from, a port attack mission that is out of range, if the port is adjacent to any hexdot in the sea area." is useless, and could be left out in RAW future editions and RAC ?

(in reply to lavisj)
Post #: 13
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 4:45:41 PM   
Greywolf

 

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It is NOT useless in WiF, it is useless in MWiF wich have a one size all hexagone.

In boardgame WiF certain hexes on certain map count for more than one hex of range...

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Post #: 14
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 4:51:35 PM   
Caquineur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

It is NOT useless in WiF, it is useless in MWiF wich have a one size all hexagone.

In boardgame WiF certain hexes on certain map count for more than one hex of range...


OK, thanks for the precision, I misunderstood "outside Box" in your previous post.

Alain

(in reply to Greywolf)
Post #: 15
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 5:28:21 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

For a CvP to be out of range is fairly easy, some old CvP have very small ranges, and a hexagone in the outside Box is 4 hex away in range (IIRC), Pacific/Asia map is 2 hex, so the CvP could be out of range of the adjacent hexes without the rule clarification.

No.

First of all, for an air unit at sea to fly an air mission to a land hex (e.g., ground strike) it must be either: (1) an organized carrier air unit on-board a carrier or (2) an organized carrier when you are playing without the optional rule Carrier Air Units. In the latter case, MWIF generates a 'temporary' carrier air unit to fly the mission. What we are talking about here are carrier air units at sea flying missions to land hexes.

The sea box section the carrier is in has no effect on determining the range of the air unit.

Some land hexes are considered 'adjacent' to a sea area even though the land hex is not adjacent to an all sea hex dot. For example, London, Hamburg, ... If you count the number of hexes from the closest all sea hex dot to the target hex it can be 2, 3, 4 or more(?). In those situations, even air units without sufficient range (counting from the closest all sea hex dot) are permitted to fly the air mission (to and from) if the target hex is 'adjacent'.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 16
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 5:30:36 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

It is NOT useless in WiF, it is useless in MWiF wich have a one size all hexagone.

In boardgame WiF certain hexes on certain map count for more than one hex of range...

While MWIF uses a global map where all hexes are treated equally, what you say here is not why the text in RAW is needed. See my other post for a fuller explanation.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Greywolf)
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RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/17/2009 10:44:28 PM   
brian brian

 

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I thought only Port Strikes were allowed when the target hex is too far from a sea hex-dot, and not other air missions?

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RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/18/2009 9:04:42 AM   
Joseignacio


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I have a beginner's question, I know how we have been playing until now but I would like to know wether it's correct or not:

A fleet is blocked in a port where all his exits to sea/s are blocked by enemy ships, outside his home country. Thus, it's unsupplied. A new ship of the same nationality of that fleet appears from another port and gets in one of these seas. Now the fleet in prot is supplied.

Could the fleet inside the port move normally? We have been playing like it can, however, I think maybe it's not correct since all the naval movements need to be done in the naval phase, and so they would be simultaneous. If they are simultaneous, the new ship cannot supply the fleet before they move.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 6/18/2009 9:15:54 AM >

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Post #: 19
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/18/2009 9:17:29 AM   
Joseignacio


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caquineur

quote:

ORIGINAL: lavisj

This does not apply to CVP, but to planes moving from a Sea Box back to land during naval air missions.
CVP start at the hex dot, and do not have to count from their sea box. (14.4).

You were correct previsouly in the fact that a CVP will always be in range of a hex bordered by a hex dot in the sea zone the CVP is in.

Jerome



Thanks, Jerome !

So, if I understand you correctly, the sentence "A carrier plane can fly, and return from, a port attack mission that is out of range, if the port is adjacent to any hexdot in the sea area." is useless, and could be left out in RAW future editions and RAC ?



I think my answer was directed to what the RAW call “large” hex-dots, hence my interpretation of the off-map boxes.

quote:

Unlike other wargames, the hexes stop at the coastlines. Hexes at sea are replaced by hex-dots - each hex-dot is at the centre of what would otherwise be a hex. When moving an aircraft unit across hex-dots, or when counting hexes, just imagine you are moving from hex to hex.
Example:

The use of hex-dots is partly aesthetic but also serves to show that the presence of land units is not permitted.

Some hex-dots are “large” hex-dots. Only large hex-dots are adjacent to off-map hexes. So, you can only move between a hex-dot and an off-map hex if the hex-dot is large. Large hex-dots can also be adjacent to normal hexes or normal hex-dots.


After thinking again, and reading the text again, I think Greywolf explanation is the only one I can think of, too.

(in reply to Caquineur)
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RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/18/2009 10:45:40 AM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
A fleet is blocked in a port where all his exits to sea/s are blocked by enemy ships, outside his home country. Thus, it's unsupplied. A new ship of the same nationality of that fleet appears from another port and gets in one of these seas. Now the fleet in prot is supplied.

Could the fleet inside the port move normally? We have been playing like it can, however, I think maybe it's not correct since all the naval movements need to be done in the naval phase, and so they would be simultaneous. If they are simultaneous, the new ship cannot supply the fleet before they move.

Yes. If you put in supply a previously out of supply unit, it is suddenly in supply and can move.

(in reply to Joseignacio)
Post #: 21
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/18/2009 11:40:22 AM   
Joseignacio


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Thanks a lot.

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RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/19/2009 5:46:09 AM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

No.

First of all, for an air unit at sea to fly an air mission to a land hex (e.g., ground strike) it must be either: (1) an organized carrier air unit on-board a carrier or (2) an organized carrier when you are playing without the optional rule Carrier Air Units. In the latter case, MWIF generates a 'temporary' carrier air unit to fly the mission. What we are talking about here are carrier air units at sea flying missions to land hexes.

The sea box section the carrier is in has no effect on determining the range of the air unit.

Some land hexes are considered 'adjacent' to a sea area even though the land hex is not adjacent to an all sea hex dot. For example, London, Hamburg, ... If you count the number of hexes from the closest all sea hex dot to the target hex it can be 2, 3, 4 or more(?). In those situations, even air units without sufficient range (counting from the closest all sea hex dot) are permitted to fly the air mission (to and from) if the target hex is 'adjacent'.

Steve, this is not correct for RAW and I hope not implemented the way you say in MWIF. The rule was only for port strikes on maps where the first hex adjacent to a hexdot cost more than 2 movement points for planes if playing with CVPs or cost more than the CV's nominal air component range if playing without CVPs. Since MWIF is universal one-hex scale, then ranges are what they are and many air missions cannot be flown farther than the range of the aircraft - except port strikes.

Edit: upon further reflection the original rule in RAW was to always allow a port strike if the target hex was adjacent to a sea dot. But if it was more than a hex away then you counted range. So a CVP or a 'nominal' CVP could make a port strike on a port adjacent to its sea area even if on the America mini-map where you'd normally count 6 to a ground strike target for example. But in MWIF, all adjacent ports to a sea dot will automatically be a range of one from the carrier, so this rule is not needed at all in MWIF. Any port that is more than one hex away from a sea dot should require a range check if a port strike is attempted.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 6/19/2009 8:30:10 AM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 23
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/19/2009 9:44:40 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

No.

First of all, for an air unit at sea to fly an air mission to a land hex (e.g., ground strike) it must be either: (1) an organized carrier air unit on-board a carrier or (2) an organized carrier when you are playing without the optional rule Carrier Air Units. In the latter case, MWIF generates a 'temporary' carrier air unit to fly the mission. What we are talking about here are carrier air units at sea flying missions to land hexes.

The sea box section the carrier is in has no effect on determining the range of the air unit.

Some land hexes are considered 'adjacent' to a sea area even though the land hex is not adjacent to an all sea hex dot. For example, London, Hamburg, ... If you count the number of hexes from the closest all sea hex dot to the target hex it can be 2, 3, 4 or more(?). In those situations, even air units without sufficient range (counting from the closest all sea hex dot) are permitted to fly the air mission (to and from) if the target hex is 'adjacent'.

Steve, this is not correct for RAW and I hope not implemented the way you say in MWIF. The rule was only for port strikes on maps where the first hex adjacent to a hexdot cost more than 2 movement points for planes if playing with CVPs or cost more than the CV's nominal air component range if playing without CVPs. Since MWIF is universal one-hex scale, then ranges are what they are and many air missions cannot be flown farther than the range of the aircraft - except port strikes.

Edit: upon further reflection the original rule in RAW was to always allow a port strike if the target hex was adjacent to a sea dot. But if it was more than a hex away then you counted range. So a CVP or a 'nominal' CVP could make a port strike on a port adjacent to its sea area even if on the America mini-map where you'd normally count 6 to a ground strike target for example. But in MWIF, all adjacent ports to a sea dot will automatically be a range of one from the carrier, so this rule is not needed at all in MWIF. Any port that is more than one hex away from a sea dot should require a range check if a port strike is attempted.

The adjacent to the sea area check is only for port attacks. It is just 3 lines of code, so if Patrice agrees, I'll remove them.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 24
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/21/2009 10:12:34 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
The adjacent to the sea area check is only for port attacks. It is just 3 lines of code, so if Patrice agrees, I'll remove them.

RAW 14.4 :
******************************
A carrier plane can fly a mission to any hex in range. Measure the range from any hex-dot in the CV’s sea area (it’s usually best to pick the hex-dot closest to your target). A carrier plane can fly, and return from, a port attack mission that is out of range, if the port is adjacent to any hexdot in the sea area.
******************************

But for sure, if the port is adjacent to a sea dot, it is in range of any CVP with the use of the MWiF map.
So I think I agree.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 25
RE: A few questions about the rules - 6/21/2009 11:45:15 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
The adjacent to the sea area check is only for port attacks. It is just 3 lines of code, so if Patrice agrees, I'll remove them.

RAW 14.4 :
******************************
A carrier plane can fly a mission to any hex in range. Measure the range from any hex-dot in the CV’s sea area (it’s usually best to pick the hex-dot closest to your target). A carrier plane can fly, and return from, a port attack mission that is out of range, if the port is adjacent to any hexdot in the sea area.
******************************

But for sure, if the port is adjacent to a sea dot, it is in range of any CVP with the use of the MWiF map.
So I think I agree.


The point here is for the second sentence not to end up allowing out-of-range port strikes in MWIF. Steve has indicated MWIF is currently coded to allow them.

This rule is unnecessary in MWIF and ANY mission more than one hex from a sea dot will need a range check.

Do you agree with this Patrice?


_____________________________

Paul

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Post #: 26
RE: A few questions about the rules - 7/10/2009 5:32:47 PM   
gogol1st

 

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Hi guys.

i have a question about the rules too.
my question is simple :

if i attack a stack of 2 units in which one is face up and the other is face down, do i still have a +1 DRM to my attack roll ?


thank you

(in reply to Caquineur)
Post #: 27
RE: A few questions about the rules - 7/10/2009 5:53:35 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 18284
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gogol1st

Hi guys.

i have a question about the rules too.
my question is simple :

if i attack a stack of 2 units in which one is face up and the other is face down, do i still have a +1 DRM to my attack roll ?


thank you

Welcome to the forum.

The Die Roll Modifiers you are asking about are different depending on whether you are using the 1D10 (standard) or the 2D10 land combat results tables.

However, in both cases the DRMs are per unit. So the answer is Yes.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to gogol1st)
Post #: 28
RE: A few questions about the rules - 7/10/2009 5:59:22 PM   
gogol1st

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/10/2009
Status: offline
hi and thank you Shannon

i play the 1D10 (standard)

Does your answer mean that if i attack a stack with 2 facedown units i have a +2 DRM  ??

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 29
RE: A few questions about the rules - 7/10/2009 6:17:15 PM   
gogol1st

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/10/2009
Status: offline
and if yes :   when i INVADE a hex with 2 facedown units, then i should have a +3 DRM right ?  (1 for the facedown ``virtual unit``)

wow, if yes, that s a lot !


thank you.  And yes i have the game rule book but i sometime prefer to ask people :P

(in reply to gogol1st)
Post #: 30
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