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Ports: Problem With Some Not Loading All the Time?

 
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Ports: Problem With Some Not Loading All the Time? - 5/29/2009 11:11:27 PM   
Anthropoid


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One of the beauties of this game is that it is a very straightforward and fairly easy to learn engine, but nonetheless challenging to master. However, there are a couple things that I grumble about in the engine, most notably the way that ports transports and ship-bound supply work. Couple questions:

1) I'm not sure if this is Working as Designed (WAD) or just I'm missing something or if it is a bug or what: the capacity to load units that are adjacent to ports seems to 'come-and-go' for some ports, most notably Taranto, where I seem to recall only getting a unit to load once or twice, but also Bordeaux, Brest, Hague, Willmshaven and Kiel. Sometimes units that start a turn in these cities CAN load (when there are sufficient supplies) other times it seems they cannot. Here is what the manual tells me about loading onto naval transport

quote:

8.7 Naval Transport
Ground units may load on to transports at a friendly port if they start the turn adjacent to the port. When loaded they may then make a naval move. Loading on to ship costs Production Points. You do not build transports, they are automatically allocated when your troops board a ship.

To unload from a transport you must start your turn next to an unoccupied and non-neutral land hex. Click the Unload button and then select which hex to offload to. Landing units from transports reduces their Effectiveness.


I thought I remembered reading something about a unit having to have 'moderate' supply somewhere too, but ah well . . . Okay, so nothing here about only certain tiles working, nor about any other factor than 'adjacent' and 'production points used.'

Okay, so below is an image of me trying to load Italian IX Corps at Taranto. I have 34 German and 104 Italian production points. Why would I not be able to load the unit onto a transport?



Just to repeat/elaborate a bit: this problem seems to come and go with some ports, but not all. I don't think I've ever seen it happen with Marseille (which has only one hex, the actual city hex, adjacent to the port hex), nor with Venice (which has five hexes adjacent to the port, all five of which _always_ seem to work with enough production points available) nor with Genoa which has three hexes all of which also always seem to work.

As an example below is an image of the Italian XXI Corps next to Tobruk, taken from the _same turn_ as the image of the IX Corps above; as you can see, the option to load the XXI _is_ available at this time.

During a previous turn (previous match actually), I wanted to load the Italian XXI Corps from the exact same hex, and it would not work even though I'm fairly confident I had enough points to load. The same general 'come-and-go' character is true for all the ports I mentioned above. Irrespective of production points available or not, it seems that sometimes you can and sometimes you cannot load from some ports. It is possible that in some instances I have been trying to load without enough production points, but I don't think that has always been the case. And in any event, it does not account for the fact that in the turn represented by these two images, I CAN load from Tobruk, but cannot load from Taranto: again BOTH units started their turns in the hexes.



In sum: the two images in this post are from the same turn, both units started the turn in the hex where they are sitting, both are adjacent to a port, but the unit next to Tobruk can load and the one in Taranto cannot. Is this WAD but I'm just missing something or is this a bug?

2) Submarines: do they provide naval supply to adjacent land hexes or not? This too seems to 'come-and-go.'

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 5/29/2009 11:20:00 PM >


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3
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RE: Ports: Problem With Some Not Loading All the Time? - 5/30/2009 2:07:59 PM   
firepowerjohan


Posts: 378
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Garrisons cannot naval transaport, this was added through patch so is not in original manual.

_____________________________

Johan Persson - Firepower Entertainment
Lead developer of:
World Empires Live http://www.worldempireslive.com/
CEAW http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=18
CNAW http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=52



(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 2
RE: Ports: Problem With Some Not Loading All the Time? - 5/30/2009 5:52:24 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 2552
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From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: firepowerjohan

Garrisons cannot naval transaport, this was added through patch so is not in original manual.


This is happening with Corps. See in the pics above, Italian Corps.

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to firepowerjohan)
Post #: 3
RE: Ports: Problem With Some Not Loading All the Time? - 5/30/2009 6:23:36 PM   
Anthropoid


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From: Secret Underground Lair
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Don't seem to be able to attached a zipped up save file? But I have one prepared to send setup with: Standard "Large Maps." Fog of War on, Random Research on, Oil production on. Set to moderate Axis difficulty. This is the very first turn in a brand new game. As shown in the image, I have 20 German Production points. As shown in the image XXI Corps in Konigsberg is unable to load.



During this very same turn it is also not possible to load XXX Corps in Wilhelmshaven.

Is there a WAD reason why these two German Corps should not load at these ports given they started the turn where they are, and there are 20 points in the pool?



It is not only during first turns but periodically during games that I am having this happen. I will look for a save a few turns further along when I have still more production points and try to find one that is later in the game.

ADDIT: I played through my turn 1 turn and did not spend any production points. starting at the beginning of Sept 21 1939 I still cannot load German XXX Corps in Wilhelmshaven or XXI Corps in Konigsberg. Let me know how and I can provide save files.

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 5/30/2009 6:31:54 PM >


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 4
RE: Ports: Problem With Some Not Loading All the Time? - 5/30/2009 6:56:12 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 2552
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From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
During the Sept 21 turn, I used up my railroad points and moved spare Corps around to most of the tiles adjacent to my three German ports, I only spent a few Production points, so I started Oct 11 1939 with a total of 181 German Production points. At the start of Oct 11 here is the status for these Corps (all of which started the turn in that location) and whether or not they would load.

XXVII Corps in Konigsberg (97,17) YES will load (now wait minute, just the previous turn when XXI Corps was sitting in this very same hex with 80 some-odd production points available XXI Corps would NOT load!?).

XXI Corps in hex 96,18 (adjacent to Konigsberg) NO, will not load; XXI Corps was in the hex at the start of the Oct 11, 1939 turn. Now in my estimation 96,18 is "adjacent" to the port symbol on the map (which is actually in hex 96,17) but evidently (maybe?) "adjacent" does not mean _all_ hexes that touch? That right there might account for it, except that I at first could NOT load from Konigsberg (97,17) but now one turn later I CAN load from that tile??

V Corps in Wilhelmshaven (78,20 and with Port icon in hex 79,19): NO, okay that is consistent with what I observed during the previous two turns for XXX Corps not being able to load from that hex.

XXX Corps in hex 79,20 (again in my book "adjacent" to the port symbol in hex 79,19): NO, will not load

XII Corps in hex 80,20: YES. How hex 80,20 is more adjacent to the port symbol than the city hex of Wilhelmshaven or the one between this one and Wilhelmshaven I do not know . . .

IX Corps in Kiel (82,19): YES. So in the Case of Kiel (sometimes),  and Konigsberg (sometimes) the actual city hex itself counts as "adjacent" but not in the case of Wilhelmshaven (at least sometimes). I seem to recall at least once or twice in the past being able to load units that were IN Wilhelmshaven.

Perhaps I am missing something basic here and hopefully I'm giving you enough detail to help me figure that out? Can provide save files if requested.

Again, I have the save file if you want to check it.

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 5
RE: Ports: Problem With Some Not Loading All the Time? - 5/31/2009 12:22:57 AM   
firepowerjohan


Posts: 378
Joined: 4/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid


quote:

ORIGINAL: firepowerjohan

Garrisons cannot naval transaport, this was added through patch so is not in original manual.


This is happening with Corps. See in the pics above, Italian Corps.


The name "Korps" is just a name, it is the unit icon and unit stats telling whether a unit is garrison or corps. The unit in Konisgberg is garrison, the one near Danzig is Corps , comapre the stats and the unit arts on map.


_____________________________

Johan Persson - Firepower Entertainment
Lead developer of:
World Empires Live http://www.worldempireslive.com/
CEAW http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=18
CNAW http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=52



(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 6
RE: Ports: Problem With Some Not Loading All the Time? - 5/31/2009 4:58:35 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 2552
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
AHHHHHH! Some starting units that I was falsely thinking were Corps _probably_ are just Garrisons! I was hoping it was not a bug, cause I really wanna play this baby right now and not have to wait for a 'fix.' Will check myself, and I suspect this explanation is probably accounting for every instance where I am getting baffled by the port-load function . Thanks Johan!

ADDIT: Yep, that accounts for it! I was mistaking units with "Corps" in the name (e.g., Italian "IX Corps" in Taranto, and German "XXX Corps" in Wilhelmshaen) as being _Corps_ type units when in fact some are just Garrisons. Thanks Johan! :)

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 5/31/2009 6:01:08 PM >


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to firepowerjohan)
Post #: 7
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