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Taxes Question... - 5/27/2009 8:15:32 PM   
barbarossa2

 

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Just curious.

Has anyone noticed their tax income drop by up to 1/2 following a surrender to other powers?

I am playing Sweden in a PBEM and my taxes dropped from roughly 60 to roughly 30 after my surrender.

One of the treaties which was forced on me included a clause which specified that my feudal dues should be set to 95 (before that they had been around 37). A couple of months after the surrender, I still have my feudal dues set to 37 or so, and I am not being penalized in the treaty system for some reason. Any other experiences like this?

-B2
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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/27/2009 9:00:56 PM   
arras

 

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I am not sure what happens with taxes after surrender but I am pretty sure that enemy forces in your capital province have drastic effect on your gold income. Given that in most cases reason for your surrender is fall of your capital, are sure that you actually did not suffered gold shortage already before surrender? ...it might take time until your treasury empties if you did have hoarded some money prior to war.

(in reply to barbarossa2)
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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/27/2009 10:26:30 PM   
barbarossa2

 

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Arras,

What is interesting in this situation is that I hold exactly as many provinces after the treaty as before it. I gained Zeeland (Copenhagen) and lost Nyland (which is the eastern half of Finland). Additionally, I surrendered before any troops even stepped foot in my territory. So there has been no damage.

-B2

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/28/2009 12:11:45 AM   
arras

 

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Well, then something strange is happening :) ...but might have some explanation at the end. Once I started new game and experienced unusual lack of money ...until I have found mid game that I forgot to raise taxes :)

Nothing really comes to my mind in your case ...except ...perhaps ...you did mention that raise of feudalism was imposed on you ...which normally would cause less gold flowing to your pocket ...perhaps there is bug where some or all effects of changed feudalism take place but its not displayed on players economic screen. But thats pure speculation :)

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/28/2009 2:35:52 AM   
barbarossa2

 

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Arras, this thought about feudalism being imposed on me causing the problem has hit me as well. I am thinking that maybe my economy is running as if the feudalism of 96 has been imposed, so my taxes collected dropped as if I was collecting 96 feudalism dues. However, I know I am not collecting 96 feudalism dues. Just the 40 or so it is set at.

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/28/2009 2:46:50 AM   
barbarossa2

 

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May Income




Attachment (1)

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/28/2009 2:47:27 AM   
barbarossa2

 

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August Income




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_____________________________

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori*.
-Wilfred Owen
*It is sweet and right to die for your country.

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/28/2009 5:19:47 AM   
Mus

 

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Do you receive income from conquered territory?  Surrendering would result in you evacuating any conquered provinces, and some of the Danish provinces in particular make a lot of money.

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/28/2009 5:53:23 AM   
barbarossa2

 

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Actually, I got to keep Copenhagen.

And now that I notice it, my national morale actually went up between May and August! So this doesn't make any sense to me anymore. I have a feeling it is a feudal levy "bug". And the feudal dues of 96 imposed on me by Russia is somehow counting against my tax collections, but it isn't helping me with my feudal dues. 

Does anyone else see that my national morale went up between these screen shots? (someone had floated the idea that it might be my national morale).

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/28/2009 7:56:56 AM   
Mus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

And now that I notice it, my national morale actually went up between May and August! So this doesn't make any sense to me anymore. I have a feeling it is a feudal levy "bug". And the feudal dues of 96 imposed on me by Russia is somehow counting against my tax collections, but it isn't helping me with my feudal dues.


What was your feudal level in June and July? If it was 96 and then is slowly moving down toward your target setting of 37 there could be some lag factor involved where you get the inferior performance of the higher setting the turn before.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

Actually, I got to keep Copenhagen.


I was going to say it might be in unrest but checked our last saved game file and it isnt.

So Im wondering if your "current" taxes isnt that gathered from last turn (when you had a higher feudal level if it was forced to set to 96) whereas your current feudal level of 40 is from this turn, heading towards your target feudal level of 37.

PS What kind of Glory hit are you taking from breaking the Feudal level clause of your surrender terms? I was speculating in another thread that imposing a high Feudal level would be a good kick in the balls to somebody who was going to be a long term enemy. They could pick between a crippled economy and bad national morale and long term glory hits every turn.

< Message edited by Mus -- 5/28/2009 8:05:05 AM >

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/28/2009 9:04:51 AM   
ShaiHulud

 

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I notice that your draftable population is much reduced. Maybe there are not as many left to pay taxes? Did you have trouble feeding your pop during your war?

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/28/2009 9:14:59 PM   
ericbabe


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Maybe check the economic report and see whether any factors are reducing your income?

_____________________________



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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/28/2009 11:57:06 PM   
barbarossa2

 

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I just checked the economic report. I can't see any obvious reasons (to me).

I have to admit, I am also curious about the massive drop in my draftable population. I lost two provences between the two reports. But due to unrest in one of them (Mecklenburg), I don't know if it even counted in the total. So I had 8 home provences+2 captured before the peace. Then 7+1 after the peace.

And which counts now... the feudal level I set myself (37)? Or the fedual dues level which the Russian peace treaty has imposed on me (95)? And why am I not being penalized for setting my feudal level lower than this 95, which was stipulated by the surrender document?

< Message edited by barbarossa2 -- 5/28/2009 11:59:49 PM >

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/29/2009 3:51:24 AM   
Mus

 

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Not being penalized for failing to obey terms of surrender coincides with my experience as Turkey in the same game.

In that one I have posted screenshots in the 1803 PBEM thread showing Turkey bouncing back and forth between the enforced no alliance clause imposed by France as terms of surrender and an enforced alliance agreement with Russia. 

Turkey receives no glory penalty for breaking its alliance with Russia every turn, but does gain glory for reforming the alliance with Russia every turn.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2049276&mpage=21

Certain treaty clauses seem to have no penalty if violated. I commented on this briefly in the mini-poll thread.

< Message edited by Mus -- 5/29/2009 3:57:14 AM >

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/29/2009 8:20:24 AM   
Kingmaker

 

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HiHi

I would hazard a guess that possibly the major cause of Swedens reduced tax income and other related population probs has nothing whatsoever to do with any Bug, but is due, figuratively speaking (excuse the pun), to Swedes (people, not the vegetable) leaving the country in droves!

I.e. Swedens population in March 1804 stood at 14m it is now showing on the 'Country details' page for Sept 1805 as 6m, but then again, I may be wrong on this.

All the Best
Peter


< Message edited by Kingmaker -- 5/29/2009 8:22:39 AM >

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RE: Taxes Question... - 5/30/2009 1:58:14 AM   
Mus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

I have to admit, I am also curious about the massive drop in my draftable population. I lost two provences between the two reports.


In the one screenshot your combined pool target is 36,000 as your draft rate is maxed out.

That would be drafting a unit of population everytime the total of your training pool and draft pool got below 36,000 which is fairly high for a country as small as Sweden.

If you werent producing a massive surplus of food sufficient to create new population fairly frequently your population would start dropping really fast at that setting.

How long was your draft at such a high setting?

< Message edited by Mus -- 5/30/2009 2:00:17 AM >


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Mindset, Tactics, Skill, Equipment
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