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rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error

 
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rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/14/2009 2:23:44 AM   
ggm


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class 172 new york wp8 20 bofors turrets is listed as 5 , should be 4

ggm
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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/14/2009 3:30:03 AM   
ggm


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also the british bb centurion has no primary or secondary armament. is this working as designed, since she was scrapped before ww2 or is it an omission?

ggm

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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/14/2009 9:01:30 AM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ggm

also the british bb centurion has no primary or secondary armament. is this working as designed, since she was scrapped before ww2 or is it an omission?

ggm


The Centurion had good machinery, so she was used as a target ship before the war. During WWII, she was used for maskerovka--she looked like an operational battleship--and as an AA ship.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to ggm)
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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/14/2009 10:21:44 PM   
ggm


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thanx

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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error f4f catfish - 5/16/2009 7:43:10 AM   
ggm


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the f4f catfish is listed as a fighter. shouldnt it be a float fighter?

ggm

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Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error f4f catfish - 5/16/2009 1:42:41 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


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Yes. Looks like an error in the database.

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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error destroyer asw - 5/17/2009 5:10:23 AM   
ggm


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the farragut class 43 upgrade no1274 has its original depth charge setup giving it 6 DCs. it should be 1 in keeping with the rhs changes.

also the porter class destroyers dont have any DCs at all. this may be an oversight.

ggm

_____________________________

Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error destroyer asw - 5/18/2009 2:53:37 AM   
ggm


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mahan and somers classes also missing DCs

_____________________________

Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to ggm)
Post #: 8
RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/18/2009 7:49:02 AM   
JeffK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: ggm

also the british bb centurion has no primary or secondary armament. is this working as designed, since she was scrapped before ww2 or is it an omission?

ggm


The Centurion had good machinery, so she was used as a target ship before the war. During WWII, she was used for maskerovka--she looked like an operational battleship--and as an AA ship.

With the signing of the Washington Naval Treaty Centurion was decommissioned and made a target ship to replace HMS Agamemnon in 1924. She remained in this role at Portsmouth Harbour until April 1941, where she was fitted with a false superstructure so as to resemble the battleship HMS Anson then building at HM Dockyard, Portsmouth.

On 4 April 1941, the Admiralty suggested that a heavy naval bombardment of the Libyan city of Tripoli should be made by the Mediterranean Fleet and followed up by blocking the port with a block ship, the Centurion. Admiral Andrew Cunningham declined the offer due to her slow speeds and heavy enemy air cover, so this idea was shelved.

In June 1942, she sailed with Operation Vigorous in the eastern Mediterranean to simulate an operational battleship. Between 1942 and 1944 Centurion was stationed off Suez as an anti-aircraft ship and to give pause to Regia Marina action in the area—the Italians thought that her false wooden 13.5-inch guns were real and kept their superdreadnoughts away. Her final act after a long and somewhat understated career was to be sunk as a blockship off the Normandy beaches after D-Day. Reportedly the Germans thought that the old vessel had been sunk by shore batteries of the German 352nd Division with great loss of life when only 70 crewmen were observed leaving the sinking vessel; in fact these 70 men were the entire crew.

edit : Details posted from Wikipedia

< Message edited by JeffK -- 5/19/2009 9:23:54 AM >


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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/19/2009 12:13:58 AM   
ggm


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thanx for the detail jeffk. Its always good to know the background for the game.

Ive been going through the rhs xxx8 bbo database trying to clean up some small errors and bugs. I havent been able to go through the japanese ships database... i dont know much about it so its harder to spot errors...



Chicken any idea when el cid will be back. id like to discuss ship asw with him.

what a massive data base, ive been using both editors and the excel file with macros to look through the data base.

ggm

_____________________________

Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to JeffK)
Post #: 10
RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/19/2009 9:18:43 AM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ggm

thanx for the detail jeffk. Its always good to know the background for the game.

Ive been going through the rhs xxx8 bbo database trying to clean up some small errors and bugs. I havent been able to go through the japanese ships database... i dont know much about it so its harder to spot errors...



Chicken any idea when el cid will be back. id like to discuss ship asw with him.

what a massive data base, ive been using both editors and the excel file with macros to look through the data base.

ggm


I pinged him.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to ggm)
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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/19/2009 6:27:50 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ggm

thanx for the detail jeffk. Its always good to know the background for the game.

Ive been going through the rhs xxx8 bbo database trying to clean up some small errors and bugs. I havent been able to go through the japanese ships database... i dont know much about it so its harder to spot errors...



Chicken any idea when el cid will be back. id like to discuss ship asw with him.

what a massive data base, ive been using both editors and the excel file with macros to look through the data base.

ggm


ggm,
It is my understanding that the DD's without DC's was something El Cid discovered in his research and they are as intended. The Japanese have some, too. These are best used for scouting and as part of SAG's rather than as escorts. I did not find the issue with the Farragut in BBO 7.958. Since Herwin pinged El Cid, I assume he will chime in eventually and can fill you in. However, it is a huge set of databases so be sure to identify the scenario, version number, and database slot you are referring to with questions.


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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/19/2009 10:33:19 PM   
ggm


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chicken, check under ship class 1274 slots 9 aand 10 for farragut. it has 6 DC launchers.

rhsbbo 7.958. unless my copy got corrupted.

ggm



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Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 13
RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/20/2009 2:30:14 AM   
ChickenOfTheSea


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I see what you mean. When El Cid first updated the ASW, he accidentally left some of the updates in the old CHS form, so I just looked under the weapon column and saw patterns. It looks like the waepon column got changed but the number column didn't get updated. I think you are right, but only El Cid can give a definitive answer.

You have pretty sharp eyes to pick that up.

By the way, the Sub-ASW interaction is greatly improved in RHS and subs become a real pain. Hunting one down and killing it takes a concerted effort. Level bombers on naval search still get too many hits, though.

< Message edited by ChickenOfTheSea -- 5/20/2009 2:33:42 AM >


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In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. - Manfred Eigen

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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/20/2009 4:16:03 AM   
ggm


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yes, its to bad that these factors (search, asw, ground combat modifiers etc..) are hardcorded in the program. It would be nice if all the variables could be saved in a global variable file so the game could be more easily modded.

ggm



_____________________________

Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 15
RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/27/2009 9:40:37 AM   
ggm


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king george class 187 and class 1403 rear pompom turrets wpn9 listed as 1 should be 8

_____________________________

Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to ggm)
Post #: 16
RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/27/2009 11:19:32 AM   
ggm


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clemson class 1314 ls torpdoes has only 1 tube. should be 3 like rs
bagley 1286 depth charges are 4 should be 1



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Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to ggm)
Post #: 17
RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/27/2009 6:28:42 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


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Still no sign of El Cid. Your postings, however, are helpful to others, such as myself, who update files on their own

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In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. - Manfred Eigen

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RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/27/2009 6:52:26 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea

Still no sign of El Cid. Your postings, however, are helpful to others, such as myself, who update files on their own


El Cid is busy developing a game simulating a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. I don't know who the customer is.

Woke up this morning to hear the news about North Korea. I suspect a system I conceptually designed in a past lifetime is getting a real workout.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 19
RE: rhs bbo no xxxxx8 error - 5/28/2009 12:29:55 AM   
ggm


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i dont know how el cid feels about this but i could update his excellent mod for him and upload the changed file  for everyone to enjoy.
aside from wiki is there any resource on the net for the japanese navy? Im hesitant to tackle the japanese data base so far because of my lack of knowledge.





ggm



_____________________________

Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 20
japanese ships.... ping Chicken - 5/28/2009 9:32:04 AM   
ggm


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possible japanese ship errors:
ship class 517 Aoba no DC /518 Aoba wpn 10 108 DC x4
ship class 520 Takoa wpn 10 107 DC x4 / 521 Takao no DC
ship class 529/530 Agaro 4DC / 531 Agaro 1DC
ship class 562/564 Mutsuki 1DC / 563 Mutsuki Kaiten but no DC
572 shiratsuyu (cosmetic) wpn 9 listed as 107 dc rear 5 ammo ->0 num

also many rtn and other subs begin with 1 speed and upgrade to more resoanable speeds. Working as designed? comments...

ggm

more to follow


_____________________________

Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to ggm)
Post #: 21
RE: japanese ships.... ping Chicken - 5/28/2009 9:50:12 AM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ggm

possible japanese ship errors:
ship class 517 Aoba no DC /518 Aoba wpn 10 108 DC x4
ship class 520 Takoa wpn 10 107 DC x4 / 521 Takao no DC
ship class 529/530 Agaro 4DC / 531 Agaro 1DC
ship class 562/564 Mutsuki 1DC / 563 Mutsuki Kaiten but no DC
572 shiratsuyu (cosmetic) wpn 9 listed as 107 dc rear 5 ammo ->0 num

also many rtn and other subs begin with 1 speed and upgrade to more resoanable speeds. Working as designed? comments...

ggm

more to follow



1. el cid played with the ASW fits to get ASW working reasonably.
2. he also worked out a way of getting reasonable building costs and times by upgrading at launch to their true characteristics.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to ggm)
Post #: 22
RE: japanese ships.... ping Chicken - 5/28/2009 10:01:46 AM   
ggm


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herwin if you look at the japanese ships their asw is inconsistent to what I beleive is el cids system of limiting 1 dc per ship. I think chicken was right in stating these inconsistentes maybe leftover from chs.

ggm


_____________________________

Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 23
RE: japanese ships.... ping Chicken - 5/28/2009 1:10:56 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ggm

herwin if you look at the japanese ships their asw is inconsistent to what I beleive is el cids system of limiting 1 dc per ship. I think chicken was right in stating these inconsistentes maybe leftover from chs.

ggm



When El Cid upgraded the ASW system, he was working primarily on the Japanese enhanced scenarios, particularly EBO, which was getting a lot of play testing by myself and others. It doesn't surprise me that there are some leftover errata in BBO, particularly in the upgrades, which wasn't getting as much attention at the time. I doubt that the current version has received recent testing.

Also, at that time he did some thorough research on ASW weapons on all navies, particularly early war configurations. These are probably more accurate than Wikipedia and certainly more accurate than stock. The limit wasn't necessarily 1 DC per ship, but rather than DC's were treated as patterns of 2, 4, 8, 13 etc depth charges. Some ships could fire patterns from multiple platforms. Each platform should fire one pattern at a time, however.

As far as maintaining files, many of us who play RHS maintain files that we have updated or customized to our preference. You should maintain a list of suspected errata for El Cid to look at if he comes back to this, but this is his baby and only he can tell you for sure which design elements are intended and which are errata. This is the way that most of us who served as play testers for RHS worked with him. Some of the changes he made seem odd on the surface, but they are actually ways of working around the hard code to get more empirically sensible results. Since he lacked access to the code, this was often confusing and frustrating.

The AE team on the other hand have access to and even altered the hard code where necessary. The fixes they are making will generally be more satisfactory and will not have the ripple effects that changes in mods of WITP often had.

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In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. - Manfred Eigen

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Post #: 24
RE: japanese ships - 5/28/2009 11:31:53 PM   
ggm


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yes chicken, it seems more logical to have only one depth charge pattern per ship, rather than multiple depth charge attacks per ship.

ggm


_____________________________

Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 25
RE:dutch - 5/29/2009 6:20:20 AM   
ggm


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tromp 223 cl  listed as having 4x pattern2 small dc

_____________________________

Alas, poor Yorick!--I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rises at it.
William Shakespeare Hamlet

(in reply to ggm)
Post #: 26
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