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Need Opinions, *No rroberson*

 
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Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/12/2009 3:52:25 AM   
TommyBoy84

 

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It's 01/02/1942 in my PBEM against rroberson. I'm Japan. Things have gone relatively well so far...lots of allied merchant shipping sunk, Brunei and Tarakan taken relatively undamaged, and I control down to Kuantan, just North if Singapore. Haven't made much progress in the Phillippines yet, but I've been focusing on taking Singapore rather than Manila first.

So here's my question: KB is in Tokyo right now, fully fueled, air wings fully stocked with planes and pilots, and ready to go. What do I do with her?

Should I keep KB intact and use it as a death star as I trudge through the SRA? Should I split it up into two separate carrier groups so I can have strong air support in two different operations? Or do you have an opinion far away from either of those two?

What is your opinion, and what have your experiences been?
Post #: 1
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/12/2009 4:10:35 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3864
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From: Elvis' Hometown
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If I could borrow your KB, put it with mine, I could really get some things done !

_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley


(in reply to TommyBoy84)
Post #: 2
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/12/2009 7:23:23 AM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84

It's 01/02/1942 in my PBEM against rroberson. I'm Japan. Things have gone relatively well so far...lots of allied merchant shipping sunk, Brunei and Tarakan taken relatively undamaged, and I control down to Kuantan, just North if Singapore. Haven't made much progress in the Phillippines yet, but I've been focusing on taking Singapore rather than Manila first.

So here's my question: KB is in Tokyo right now, fully fueled, air wings fully stocked with planes and pilots, and ready to go. What do I do with her?

Should I keep KB intact and use it as a death star as I trudge through the SRA? Should I split it up into two separate carrier groups so I can have strong air support in two different operations? Or do you have an opinion far away from either of those two?

What is your opinion, and what have your experiences been?



Choose a Schwerpunkt and take it out. Just remember that the KB is very visible once it launches sorties and consider how to minimise that visibility. You want to disappear again quickly.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to TommyBoy84)
Post #: 3
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/12/2009 8:18:03 AM   
TommyBoy84

 

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Choose a what?

(in reply to herwin)
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RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/12/2009 12:21:04 PM   
flaggelant


Posts: 262
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From: Netherlands
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single dot on the map that you really want/ need to be yours!

you might reinforce mini KB with 1 or 2 (preferably slow) carriers and head the rest towards the Sopac

that way you have 2 KB's 

(in reply to TommyBoy84)
Post #: 5
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/12/2009 5:01:49 PM   
Nemo121


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Do one thing well rather than two things poorly.

It may, at times, be possible to conduct split operations and still succeed but the majority of the time this is just the prelude to disastrous failure.

(in reply to flaggelant)
Post #: 6
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/12/2009 5:13:25 PM   
castor troy


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In 8 out of 10 times an experienced Allied player is able to punish the Japanese for splitting up KB. At least when he wants to...

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Post #: 7
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/12/2009 7:14:18 PM   
ny59giants


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How ambitious are your plans?? What is your opponents playing style - aggressive, passive, or a combination??

Beyond the historical conquest, what else do you want to be invested in or have taken by 1 Sept 42?? India?? Australia?? New Zealand?? Aleutian Islands (how many)?? Line Islands?? Hawaii??

The use of KB is critical and sometimes just having "big brother' around, but unspotted helps you conduct needed operations.

If you haven't started it yet, you will need to begin your pilot training program in China.

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 8
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/12/2009 9:57:02 PM   
engineer

 

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Ideas in no particular order:
  • Deep Counterforce:  Go to Kwajelein or Truk and ambush his carriers if they probe your perimeter
  • Shallow Counterforce:  Where did the Asiatic Fleet and the ABDA forces go?  Find them and kill them if they aren't on the south coast of Australia or the Arabian Sea.
  • Western Counterforce:  Head for the Indian Ocean with the intent of sinking so many capital ships he can't fulfill Winston's orders to the Admiralty for withdrawals.  You get hard VP for killing ships and can cost him political points to tie troops to Australia or the US West Coast. 
  • Secure the SRA:  Sail up and down the Java Sea to get a head start on securing Sumatra and Java before Singapore falls
  • Isolate Oz:  Get a division and some SNLF then jump down to Noumea.  Pick up Port Moresby on the return and fill out the Solomons. 

    (in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 9
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/13/2009 12:21:24 AM   
stuman


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From: Elvis' Hometown
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Do one thing well rather than two things poorly.

It may, at times, be possible to conduct split operations and still succeed but the majority of the time this is just the prelude to disastrous failure.


That pretty well describes all of my games ..... " prelude to a disastrous failure ". Also can substitute phrases like " spectacular " failure , " stupefyingly idiotic " failures and " actually embarrassed to be playing this moron " failures."


_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley


(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 10
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/13/2009 12:26:58 AM   
niceguy2005


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If you're playing rroberson go for a full carrier engagement ASAP. 

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Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to stuman)
Post #: 11
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/13/2009 1:26:52 AM   
AirGriff


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I've never played Japan, but if I did I have always wondered what if the IJ had been sold on Yamamato's plan of going into Fiji or Somoa rather than a Midway operation. It's still pretty early for you to do that in early January, I suppose, but it's a nice goal to work towards.

(in reply to TommyBoy84)
Post #: 12
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/13/2009 6:13:48 AM   
TommyBoy84

 

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Niceguy2005, your post begs a story....do tell ;-)

As far as what's going on now, I have an invasion force on their way to Suva, backed by a bombardment TF and air cover from Mini-KB.  I figure I can get a good jump on things if I can seriously impede the sea lanes to Oz, and with my new Emilys, there will hardly be a place in the central and south pacific the allies can go without being seen.

I'm about to make a large (did I say large?  I meant LARGE) landing of forces at Mersing, then just walk them down to Singapore and avoid Singapore's mines and coastal guns.  I have minesweepers with air cover on their way to clear out Singapore so I can have my BB's in the area help melt away the ground troops.  I have plenty of fighters providing LRCAP in the area, and Singapore's runways have been bombed to smithereens, so air counterstrikes aren't much of a threat.

Will KB be of much use with an invasion of Singapore, or is it better used stoftening up somewhere else?

I'm still figuring out this whole pilot training thing though.... I've read through Mogami's patented method a couple times, but I think it will take a few more before I really get it.

< Message edited by TommyBoy84 -- 5/13/2009 6:17:35 AM >

(in reply to AirGriff)
Post #: 13
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/13/2009 7:06:17 AM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Do one thing well rather than two things poorly.

It may, at times, be possible to conduct split operations and still succeed but the majority of the time this is just the prelude to disastrous failure.


That pretty well describes all of my games ..... " prelude to a disastrous failure ". Also can substitute phrases like " spectacular " failure , " stupefyingly idiotic " failures and " actually embarrassed to be playing this moron " failures."



THAT made me laugh! Well said Sir.


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Post #: 14
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/13/2009 4:47:50 PM   
engineer

 

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quote:

TommyBoy84:
Will KB be of much use with an invasion of Singapore, or is it better used stoftening up somewhere else?


Since you already have Kuantan, I usually provide my air cover and tactical bombing against Singapore from there.  Once you get Johor in hand, you can also march some base forces up there, too.  In short, I think using the KB on Singapore is overkill. 

The Allied bomber pilots have gotten some experience from going after your convoys landing on the east coast of Malaya so they can do some damage.  Your opponent should have pulled them back to Palembang and/or Batavia instead of leaving them in Singapore to get smashed by your aircraft.  The KB can cover landings at Palembang in parallel with your reduction of Singapore so your Zero's can eliminate the ABDA air threat while you use some of your bombers to smash the defenders at Palembang and hold the balance on Naval Attack against a possible sortie by the ABDA surface forces.  (You may also flush a bunch of merchant shipping out of the various Dutch ports if he's been trying to get as much resource/oil out of the SRA as possible ahead of your conquest). 

The AI always concentrates a lot of shipping at Surabaya, it is a good port with plenty of fuel so human players often do as well.  If your opponent doesn't flee at the first sight of the KB, it's only a day's sail away from Palembang.   Once you have landed the bulk of your troops at Palembang, and drawn most of the Allied air units morale in futile strikes on the KB, then you can run LRCAP over the Palembang landing with Zero's out of Kuching.  The KB is no longer necessary to secure victory at Palembang  

A bit of warning on the Suva attack, if he has Enterprise, Saratoga, and Lexington intact, you may find the mini-KB on the bottom, especially if you've already shown your hand that the KB is positively identified near Singapore and not lurking in ambush a few hundred miles behind the mini-KB. 

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 15
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/13/2009 10:13:34 PM   
niceguy2005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84

Niceguy2005, your post begs a story....do tell ;-)


Just that RRoberson used to post in the forum regularly and most of his posts began with "My planes refused to launch again. ", or "I lost all my carriers again."



_____________________________


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Post #: 16
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/14/2009 12:49:23 AM   
erstad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84
  I have minesweepers with air cover on their way to clear out Singapore so I can have my BB's in the area help melt away the ground troops. 


If you minesweep in Singapore, the coastal guns will fire at your MSWs. Results will not be pretty.

(in reply to TommyBoy84)
Post #: 17
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/14/2009 3:10:31 AM   
Nomad


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From: Northern Rockies
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quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005


quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84

Niceguy2005, your post begs a story....do tell ;-)


Just that RRoberson used to post in the forum regularly and most of his posts began with "My planes refused to launch again. ", or "I lost all my carriers again."




I once engaged him with 3 CVs vs 6 and won the engagement. I lost 1 CV with 2 moderately damaged, he lost 2 sunk, 1 heavily damaged, and 2 moderately damaged. He is notorious.

_____________________________



Don't ask me any questions, apparently I know nothing about WitP:AE

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 18
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/18/2009 5:28:22 PM   
leehunt27@bloomberg.net


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hi Tommyboy84, i'm in a similar position in a February 1942 CHS PBEM game (against Nomad, who just posted above).  I cannot reveal my KB ideas or location etc, but i can give a quick idea for pilot training: find an Allied infantry hex (not a base or city) and fly your fighters at 1,000 to 2,000 feet and strafe the infantry. 

You will not take many losses (especially if you train large amounts of fighters at once, the Allies won't want to try and break up the Zero or Claude party) and your pilots will train up to 70's experience relatively quickly.  It may take a few weeks, but its better than throwing a bunch of 50-60 experience pilots up against the Flying Tigers or the Hurricanes that arrive in Burma later... 

I think pilot training is probably almost as important a focus as taking a line of islands somewhere...

And the question on what do with the KB after the Manila & Singapore operations is of course, one of the greatest of the entire war :)  I would argue that historically raids on Darwin or Ceylon were a waste of time and not decisive enough in the long run.

< Message edited by leehunt27@bloomberg.net -- 5/18/2009 5:30:44 PM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 19
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/18/2009 8:15:55 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AirGriff

I've never played Japan, but if I did I have always wondered what if the IJ had been sold on Yamamato's plan of going into Fiji or Somoa rather than a Midway operation. It's still pretty early for you to do that in early January, I suppose, but it's a nice goal to work towards.


As the Allies I've lost Fiji, Samoa, and pretty much everything else in SoPac and it didn't bother me a bit.

There are two viable strategies for the Japanese player:

1) Aim for auto-victory on 1/1/43
a) If you make it, wow!
b) If you miss, do your best for the rest of the game, but you've lost.

2) Aim to lose, but enjoy the game as best you can.

In order to have a shot at auto-victory, the Japs will have to take out either Australia or India (I'm not sure if taking out Hawaii or Russia might also give the Japs a shot, but I doubt it).

The Allies are incredibly powerful by 1944 and can recover from just about any situation short of auto-victory, so the only winning Jap strategy is to achieve auto-victory. Oh, there's also the possibility of demoralizing the Allied player so much that he quits, which sometimes happens after a major Jap carrier victory.

(in reply to AirGriff)
Post #: 20
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/19/2009 6:17:44 PM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84

Niceguy2005, your post begs a story....do tell ;-)

As far as what's going on now, I have an invasion force on their way to Suva, backed by a bombardment TF and air cover from Mini-KB.  I figure I can get a good jump on things if I can seriously impede the sea lanes to Oz, and with my new Emilys, there will hardly be a place in the central and south pacific the allies can go without being seen.


I have played RRob several times but only into mid '42 before our games ended. Now I am rusty - haven't played WitP in several years, but I usually split KB into 2 TF - each with 3 CVs. I would definately send one to cover the mini-KB in your grab for Suva. it would not surprise me at all if Rob has his CVs down there just to protect against such a thing. TBH, I would send both TFs down that way. Suva is a nice base if you can grab and hold it. And he will definately need to take it back before any offensive can be mounted from OZ due to supply / fuel shortages.


quote:

I'm about to make a large (did I say large?  I meant LARGE) landing of forces at Mersing, then just walk them down to Singapore and avoid Singapore's mines and coastal guns.  I have minesweepers with air cover on their way to clear out Singapore so I can have my BB's in the area help melt away the ground troops.  I have plenty of fighters providing LRCAP in the area, and Singapore's runways have been bombed to smithereens, so air counterstrikes aren't much of a threat.


Just use Zeros on LRCAP from nearby bases to cover your invasion. By now if you have been whittling down the planes in Singapore he won't have a whole lot left. Also, I wouldn't take any ships into Singapore - the coastal guns (artillery units) will maul your Mine Sweepers before they sweep any mines. As for using BBs to bombard - its not worth the risk of having one of them laid up in drydock for 6 months this early.

quote:

Will KB be of much use with an invasion of Singapore, or is it better used stoftening up somewhere else?


Using KB to hammer Singapore won't do anything except let him know that KB is a week away from the SW pacific and if he wants to hit Truk / Kwaj and run he can freely.

After my days (I usually spend 1 or 2 additional days) of hitting Pearl are over I usually use the KB to cover invasions in the SW pacific - you don't need the cover but should his CVs appear you will lose the whole invasion force - something you need to avoid.

Xargun

(in reply to TommyBoy84)
Post #: 21
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/20/2009 6:02:27 AM   
TommyBoy84

 

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Thanks everybody for your insights.

What's happening now:

As far as Suva goes, my bombardment TF was attacked by a lone allied CV. SBD's put 5 1000lb'ers on a BB, but all it did was give me 3 SYS damage. I shot down 4 SBD's and damaged 11 more. He must have been aiming for a quick in and out strike, because I haven't seen that CV in about 3 days since. Mini-KB is still 7 hexes away from Suva providing LRCAP from the few bombers that are still at Suva, and incase that CV pops up again. I've increased my CAP over Mini-KB though incase he's been able to deduce where I've been hiding it. I've been moving Mini-KB a hex or two every turn, keeping within range of Suva, to try and keep from being detected. My first of three guard forces have landed, and the 2nd will land on our next turn. I had to send a 3rd one in after I saw there were more troops at Suva than I thought, but they're still a few days out. I figure if I keep up the bombardment I can whittle away the allied ground troops some before I start attacking with troops. Taiyo is on her way down from Takao with 21 zeroes and 9 kates to join Mini-KB (currently has Ryujo, Zuiho, and Hosho).

Big KB is a few days out of Palau right now. I'm stashing KB there until I figure out where I want to deploy it. Through recon with Nells, I've found that much of the Asiatic and ABDA fleets ran to Darwin. Recon shows 69 ships there, mixed warships and merchant. I'm trying to find a route where I can sneak KB down in striking range of Darwin without being constantly tracked, but I don't think there is a way.

Just a side note....was I an idiot for landing at Mersing? I can't tell if there's a road from Mersing to Singapore, and if there's not, I'm worried my troops will be fatigued to hell after a two-week walk to Singapore.

This post felt like an AAR....

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 22
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/20/2009 3:09:08 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 7155
Joined: 1/10/2005
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quote:

Mini-KB is still 7 hexes away from Suva providing LRCAP from the few bombers that are still at Suva, and incase that CV pops up again. I've increased my CAP over Mini-KB though incase he's been able to deduce where I've been hiding it. I've been moving Mini-KB a hex or two every turn, keeping within range of Suva, to try and keep from being detected.


Keep a close eye on the number of sorties you have available in your CVEs and CVLs. Some of them only have 90 and you could run into problems if your planes don't fly (ran out of them). CAP doesn't count against your available sorties, but I'm not sure if LRCAP does.

(in reply to TommyBoy84)
Post #: 23
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/22/2009 8:02:33 PM   
flaggelant


Posts: 262
Joined: 1/25/2009
From: Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84


Just a side note....was I an idiot for landing at Mersing? I can't tell if there's a road from Mersing to Singapore, and if there's not, I'm worried my troops will be fatigued to hell after a two-week walk to Singapore.

This post felt like an AAR....



i love landing at mersing, it cuts off retreat from a LOT of units into Singapore, so its worth it either way.
if you want to know what kind of road is displayed; hit "R"

(in reply to TommyBoy84)
Post #: 24
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/26/2009 4:41:14 PM   
miller41


Posts: 1022
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From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Do one thing well rather than two things poorly.

It may, at times, be possible to conduct split operations and still succeed but the majority of the time this is just the prelude to disastrous failure.


That pretty well describes all of my games ..... " prelude to a disastrous failure ". Also can substitute phrases like " spectacular " failure , " stupefyingly idiotic " failures and " actually embarrassed to be playing this moron " failures."



THAT made me laugh! Well said Sir.



That is without a doubt the most truthful thing ever said and it mirrors my history as well


_____________________________

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Post #: 25
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/26/2009 4:48:14 PM   
miller41


Posts: 1022
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From: Saint Marys, Ga
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84

Thanks everybody for your insights.

What's happening now:

As far as Suva goes, my bombardment TF was attacked by a lone allied CV. SBD's put 5 1000lb'ers on a BB, but all it did was give me 3 SYS damage. I shot down 4 SBD's and damaged 11 more. He must have been aiming for a quick in and out strike, because I haven't seen that CV in about 3 days since. Mini-KB is still 7 hexes away from Suva providing LRCAP from the few bombers that are still at Suva, and incase that CV pops up again. I've increased my CAP over Mini-KB though incase he's been able to deduce where I've been hiding it. I've been moving Mini-KB a hex or two every turn, keeping within range of Suva, to try and keep from being detected. My first of three guard forces have landed, and the 2nd will land on our next turn. I had to send a 3rd one in after I saw there were more troops at Suva than I thought, but they're still a few days out. I figure if I keep up the bombardment I can whittle away the allied ground troops some before I start attacking with troops. Taiyo is on her way down from Takao with 21 zeroes and 9 kates to join Mini-KB (currently has Ryujo, Zuiho, and Hosho).

Big KB is a few days out of Palau right now. I'm stashing KB there until I figure out where I want to deploy it. Through recon with Nells, I've found that much of the Asiatic and ABDA fleets ran to Darwin. Recon shows 69 ships there, mixed warships and merchant. I'm trying to find a route where I can sneak KB down in striking range of Darwin without being constantly tracked, but I don't think there is a way.

Just a side note....was I an idiot for landing at Mersing? I can't tell if there's a road from Mersing to Singapore, and if there's not, I'm worried my troops will be fatigued to hell after a two-week walk to Singapore.

This post felt like an AAR....


Far as the Mersing landing, as the allies I have had Jap players land there and the results depend on how fast he is withdrawing from farther north. If he tried to delay you for any length of time you can cut him off. But the road from mersing to the west coast is a slow slog, so it is a race. Worth the risk as long as you have Singapore's air supressed, don't let him get bombers in there or you could have alot of shot up ships leaving that port. It is always a risk to land there but it depends on your opponent and your preperation as to if it is going to be a bad risk or a good one


_____________________________

You have the ability to arouse various emotions in me: please select carefully.

(in reply to TommyBoy84)
Post #: 26
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/28/2009 1:08:47 AM   
engineer

 

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If you can pull off taking Pearl that's a possible route to an autovictory.  Oahu and Noumea are worth 3000 points each in stock.  Taking either puts you in a position to snipe at the US/Oz route. 

(in reply to miller41)
Post #: 27
RE: Need Opinions, *No rroberson* - 5/28/2009 10:01:55 AM   
String


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From: Estonia
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Identify his supply base and raid it. It's usually Suva, Noumea, Canton or whatever in Pac. It usually contains a moderate (but not large enough) amount of fighters and lots of shipping.

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Surface combat TF fanboy

(in reply to engineer)
Post #: 28
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