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RE: Simple Survey - 5/12/2009 10:50:28 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I have been updating the spreadsheet you sent me. Right now I have 84 responses. Does that match what you have?

It just looks like you don't have my conditional colors




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 121
RE: Simple Survey - 5/13/2009 2:25:26 PM   
micheljq


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

My conclusion is that I now agree with Dave: the AIO is crucial for sales. Indeed, I see this as a personal challenge, with players saying they can play MWIF better than any AIO I can create.



Thank you for sharing this with us, so what are you planning to do concerning the final product in regards to AIO, PBEM, & NetPlay?

I just to want to say the following thing : in almost all PC games all players at the beginning will want to play against the AIO first, but as the time evolves more of them will want to play against human players, according to me, from what I saw in the past in other PC games.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 122
RE: Simple Survey - 5/13/2009 4:12:03 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2261
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From: San Diego
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Sorry, I just saw this thread. If the poll is still open:

I don't plan to play a human opponent, ever.

I plan to play versus the AI opponent most of the time (80%). If it is too tough, or if it is buggy, then I will shift to Solitaire exclusively.

EDIT: Even if the AI is non-funtional and I must play solitaire, I will still feel that it was/is money well spent. I have the boxed boardgame, but I don't have the room to set it up. (Even a single Theatre scenario takes up too much room.) I have only played the boardgame solitaire, so a computer version (that enforces the rules of the game ;D ) will be a huge godsend.

< Message edited by mlees -- 5/13/2009 4:15:05 PM >

(in reply to micheljq)
Post #: 123
RE: Simple Survey - 5/13/2009 7:48:02 PM   
Tanan Fujiwara

 

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100% vs AI

(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 124
RE: Simple Survey - 5/13/2009 9:39:47 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7899
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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

Sorry, I just saw this thread. If the poll is still open:

I don't plan to play a human opponent, ever.

I plan to play versus the AI opponent most of the time (80%). If it is too tough, or if it is buggy, then I will shift to Solitaire exclusively.

EDIT: Even if the AI is non-funtional and I must play solitaire, I will still feel that it was/is money well spent. I have the boxed boardgame, but I don't have the room to set it up. (Even a single Theatre scenario takes up too much room.) I have only played the boardgame solitaire, so a computer version (that enforces the rules of the game ;D ) will be a huge godsend.

I believe it is still open.

But could you make your vote more precise. You only said 80% AI Opponent. What about the other 20% ?

(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 125
RE: Simple Survey - 5/13/2009 11:02:42 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp


quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

Sorry, I just saw this thread. If the poll is still open:

I don't plan to play a human opponent, ever.

I plan to play versus the AI opponent most of the time (80%). If it is too tough, or if it is buggy, then I will shift to Solitaire exclusively.

EDIT: Even if the AI is non-funtional and I must play solitaire, I will still feel that it was/is money well spent. I have the boxed boardgame, but I don't have the room to set it up. (Even a single Theatre scenario takes up too much room.) I have only played the boardgame solitaire, so a computer version (that enforces the rules of the game ;D ) will be a huge godsend.

I believe it is still open.

But could you make your vote more precise. You only said 80% AI Opponent. What about the other 20% ?

It is still open.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 126
RE: Simple Survey - 5/14/2009 4:36:15 AM   
Szilard

 

Posts: 236
Joined: 1/3/2001
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AI 100%

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 127
RE: Simple Survey - 5/14/2009 9:01:57 AM   
arehb

 

Posts: 7
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Solitaire 10%, AI 60%, net 10% pbem 20%.

(in reply to Szilard)
Post #: 128
RE: Simple Survey - 5/14/2009 9:46:51 AM   
Greywolf

 

Posts: 105
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Solitaire 15%, Hotseat 15%, Net 25%, PBEM 10%, AI 35%


< Message edited by Greywolf -- 5/14/2009 12:34:23 PM >


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Post #: 129
RE: Simple Survey - 5/14/2009 6:54:22 PM   
benpark


Posts: 3794
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AI Opponent 100%

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Post #: 130
RE: Simple Survey - 5/14/2009 9:42:40 PM   
Nikodemus71

 

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Hi!

Solitaire: 0%
Hotseat (head to head): 0%
AI : 30 %
NetPlay : 0 % (Cannot see myself getting free time regularly for the next year or so. After that this option might eat some of the PBEM percentage unless the PBEM will support more than 2 players in the future.)
PBEM : 70%


From what I have seen on the forum this title will be very interesting.

/Niclas

(in reply to benpark)
Post #: 131
RE: Simple Survey - 5/14/2009 10:51:28 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2261
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From: San Diego
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp


quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

Sorry, I just saw this thread. If the poll is still open:

I don't plan to play a human opponent, ever.

I plan to play versus the AI opponent most of the time (80%). If it is too tough, or if it is buggy, then I will shift to Solitaire exclusively.

EDIT: Even if the AI is non-funtional and I must play solitaire, I will still feel that it was/is money well spent. I have the boxed boardgame, but I don't have the room to set it up. (Even a single Theatre scenario takes up too much room.) I have only played the boardgame solitaire, so a computer version (that enforces the rules of the game ;D ) will be a huge godsend.

I believe it is still open.

But could you make your vote more precise. You only said 80% AI Opponent. What about the other 20% ?



Sorry.

80% of the time, I will play one "side" (Axis or Allies) versus an AI opponent controlling the other team.

The other 20% of the time, I will play both "sides". (Solitaire)

H2H, PBEM, and Netplay I expect will be zero percent for me.

EDIT: Is there any practical coding difference between "Head to Head" and "Solitaire"?

< Message edited by mlees -- 5/14/2009 10:55:05 PM >

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 132
RE: Simple Survey - 5/15/2009 1:39:40 AM   
bresh

 

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Solitaire: 0%
Hotseat : 15% (Depends bit on if each player takes 1 nation or needs to play a side).
AI : 50 %
NetPlay/PBEM : 35%

Regards
Bresh


(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 133
RE: Simple Survey - 5/15/2009 3:03:13 AM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees
EDIT: Is there any practical coding difference between "Head to Head" and "Solitaire"?

Copied from Steve's post #105 in this thread:

Hotseat has prompts built in that tell the players to switch who is seated in front of the computer (i.e., switch sides). The Axis player doesn't get to see the US Entry chits. When making simultaneous decisions (e.g., air-to-air combat), the players should not see what the other side is doing.

_____________________________

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Post #: 134
RE: Simple Survey - 5/15/2009 7:34:27 AM   
Greywolf

 

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So it is nearly always better to player solitaire in hotseat mode.... but it is also a bit slower with much more clicking.

I tried both mode with CWiF and finally settle for a mixed mode with hotseat and only 2 players rather than hotseat and 7 players :p It is easier this way not to always react the best...

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Post #: 135
RE: Simple Survey - 5/15/2009 1:42:36 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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For the AI to kick butt against any human opponent, all you have to do is rig the die rolls in the AI's favor...which spoils the fun in my opinion. After a few games the AI can be figured out and become useless. I dont understand why people would rather play an AI than a human oppoent??? To get a more accurate feedback for sales, you should expand this survey to include the WiF list moderated by Devin. I know there are a few of guys on here that are active over there as well...like Patrice and Steve Balk. Over there you have the hard core WiF grognards who I think(I could be surprised though) would predominantly wish to play NetPlay, PBEM, or Hot Seat. And probably double your feed back from what this survey got. Also, its easy to do on that list since there is a voting feature. Steve or Patrice could make it happen.

My vote if it still counts is:

NetPlay: 80%
PBEM: 7%
Hot Seat: 10%
AI: 1%
Solitaire: 2%

C


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Survey
I ran a simple survey of the World in Flames forum members asking which mode(s) of play they expected to use, as a percentage of the time they spend playing MWIF. This was motivated by my conversation with Dave about how important the AI Opponent would be. My guess prior to this survey was that the break down would be 50% NetPlay, 30% AIO, 20% PBEM. I was completely wrong.

The scrren shots are taken of spreadsheet that Patrice created for summarizing the responses from this survey. As I write this we have had 86 players respond; that is a healthy simple size, though perhaps biased, since the survey is of active forum members. Patrice used the word 'votes', which is imprecise. I think of them as 'responses' - since no one is getting elected.

The dominant mode of play is going to be AIO (52%) with PBEM second (23%), NetPlay third (17%), with Solitaire and Head-to-head making up the rest. You can see these numbers in the first page of the spreadsheet.

From the comments players made when completing the survey, Solitaire, and to a lesser extent AIO, will be used to gain experience with the game so they can play against human opponents using PBEM and NetPlay. But there are over 60% of the customers who expect to play against the AI most of the time. If you look at the bar chart, you’ll see that AIO overwhelms the other modes of play for use Predominantly (75% or more of playing time). It is also equal to the sum of all the other modes of play for use Most-of-the-time (50% to 74% of playing time).

Overall, PBEM beats out NetPlay slightly, and almost 90% of the respondents had zero interest in Head-to-head play. Solitaire use is apparently expected to be a learning/planning tool rather than a means of playing the entire game from start to finish.

My conclusion is that I now agree with Dave: the AIO is crucial for sales. Indeed, I see this as a personal challenge, with players saying they can play MWIF better than any AIO I can create.



_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 136
RE: Simple Survey - 5/15/2009 2:54:16 PM   
mlees


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From: San Diego
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees
EDIT: Is there any practical coding difference between "Head to Head" and "Solitaire"?

Copied from Steve's post #105 in this thread:

Hotseat has prompts built in that tell the players to switch who is seated in front of the computer (i.e., switch sides). The Axis player doesn't get to see the US Entry chits. When making simultaneous decisions (e.g., air-to-air combat), the players should not see what the other side is doing.


Thanks for the info.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 137
RE: Simple Survey - 5/15/2009 3:06:12 PM   
mlees


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Jagdtiger14, at the risk of straying offtopic, I wish to point out a couple reasons why I plan to play solo/solitaire:

1) Extremely flexible scheduling.

I am not "commited" to any game. I can play as much (or as little) as I want, whenever I am in the mood. If I were to enroll in a PBEM game, I know that I am expected to turn in my moves in a timely fasion, and on very busy days this would "hang over" me like some deadline for a class or work assignment. I can abandon games without angering anyone.

2) Liberal "mulligan" policy.

I can restore the game to a previous save state when I make a spectacularly dumb move. The computer rarely complains. 

By the way, IIRC, Steve et. al are not programing the AI to cheat on dice rolls.

< Message edited by mlees -- 5/15/2009 3:10:23 PM >

(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 138
RE: Simple Survey - 5/15/2009 5:31:41 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 18356
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

Jagdtiger14, at the risk of straying offtopic, I wish to point out a couple reasons why I plan to play solo/solitaire:

1) Extremely flexible scheduling.

I am not "commited" to any game. I can play as much (or as little) as I want, whenever I am in the mood. If I were to enroll in a PBEM game, I know that I am expected to turn in my moves in a timely fasion, and on very busy days this would "hang over" me like some deadline for a class or work assignment. I can abandon games without angering anyone.

2) Liberal "mulligan" policy.

I can restore the game to a previous save state when I make a spectacularly dumb move. The computer rarely complains. 

By the way, IIRC, Steve et. al are not programing the AI to cheat on dice rolls.

I consider having the AIO cheat in any way an abomination.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 139
RE: Simple Survey - 5/15/2009 5:46:17 PM   
Hartford688

 

Posts: 260
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From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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100% vs AI

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 140
RE: Simple Survey - 5/15/2009 6:02:40 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7899
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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bresh

Solitaire: 0%
Hotseat : 15% (Depends bit on if each player takes 1 nation or needs to play a side).
AI : 50 %
NetPlay/PBEM : 35%

It would be best if you detailed NetPlay & PBEM, and if you did not make me guess whether it is 18% NetPlay & 17% PBEM or the reverse or something else.

(in reply to bresh)
Post #: 141
RE: Simple Survey - 5/15/2009 7:41:36 PM   
chacal83


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Solitaire: 2 %
Head-to-head: 0%
AI: 85 %
NetPlay: 10 %
PBEM: 3 %

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Post #: 142
RE: Simple Survey - 5/16/2009 6:03:51 AM   
Obsolete


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I dont understand why people would rather play an AI than a human oppoent???

No one likes to learn vs a human and get THEIR ass kicked every time.  Also, trying to either connect or maintain a stable connection is almost never as easy as the original developers had intended for it to be.

And don't forget all the solo-scenarios people love to develop in the communities.




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Post #: 143
RE: Simple Survey - 5/16/2009 10:25:51 AM   
Grognerd

 

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PBEM 35%
Against AI 50%
Netplay 15%

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Post #: 144
RE: Simple Survey - 5/16/2009 1:39:20 PM   
Espen

 

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At first:
AI 95%
Head to head 5%

Later:
AI 80%
Netplay 10%
PBEM 5%
Head to head 5%

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Post #: 145
RE: Simple Survey - 5/16/2009 5:32:11 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 2812
Joined: 5/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

I dont understand why people would rather play an AI than a human oppoent???

No one likes to learn vs a human and get THEIR ass kicked every time.  Also, trying to either connect or maintain a stable connection is almost never as easy as the original developers had intended for it to be.

And don't forget all the solo-scenarios people love to develop in the communities.





Obsolete the perfect answer to your question was given by Jadgtiger in the post above he took the words right out of my mouth [not that I would have thought of them] and I am sure many other players feel the same, I want to play when I want to play and not be obligated to make a move in a timely fashion to satisfy a pbem game player who is thirsting for my next move so he can wipe me out. I believe that the best way to play would be against a human opponent but I dont find that really feasible for me, but I am just one opinion and do not know this game at all except for the forums which have been quite informative for me. We newbies shall all find out shortly about the AI and the game mechanics.

Willy


(in reply to Obsolete)
Post #: 146
RE: Simple Survey - 5/16/2009 8:54:11 PM   
yoshino


Posts: 94
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From: Komatsu, Japan
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Wmm...perhaps,

90% vs AI
10% PBEM

Later,Increase PBEM play.

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 147
RE: Simple Survey - 5/16/2009 9:08:27 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 18356
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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In honor of Yoshino being the 100th respondent, here is an updated summary. Note that the bar chart show the counts, but since there are 100 respondents, it also shows the percentage.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 148
RE: Simple Survey - 5/17/2009 6:28:02 AM   
SLAAKMAN


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55% for the AI????!! What kind of newblette greenhornism is that?? The AI is rarely even a challenge in any campaign!! How disappointing.

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(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 149
RE: Simple Survey - 5/17/2009 9:15:41 AM   
the dragon

 

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AI= 100%

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)
Post #: 150
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