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1914 Questions - 4/25/2009 12:04:02 AM   
jscott991


Posts: 529
Joined: 4/23/2009
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This forum isn't all that lively, but I don't want to abandon this game before I've given it a fair try.

I'm having trouble accomplishing much of anything as the CP in 1914. So I thought I'd ask a few general questions.

1. How on Earth can Germany establish an eastern front without stripping the west? I can't seem to get enough forces east by 1915 to establish any kind of stability. The Russians just seem to ooze around the map. Austria is having this same problem. The front is simpy huge compared to the number of forces the CP can allocate there.

I don't look forward to creating an Italian front from scratch.

The later scenarios (1915 on) seem much easier because the front is already established. But you just don't seem to have the corps and rail movement to duplicate this.

2. I've taken Belgrade as Austria, but I can't seem to get much further. Is it best at this point to just wait for the Bulgars to join the war? Austria just doesn't seem to have enough activations to make a real breakthrough. Its easy enough to take Belgrade, but there aren't enough corps or HQ's to create a front much deeper in Serbia.

3. Germany can't seem to duplicate its 1914 success -- just in terms of logistics. Moving one hex per impulse, at best if an attack is successful, will only get you to Lille by September. After that, even winning battles doesn't help a lot because your forward HQ's run out of activations. I suppose I could try to elaborately swap the southern western front HQ's with Kluck et al, but that seems hard to do.

Is the best CP strategy to push into Belgium, stop, and then start just pouring troops east? If you can't take Paris, there seems little point to losing Breslau, Lemberg, and Krakow.
Post #: 1
RE: 1914 Questions - 4/25/2009 1:48:26 AM   
lordhoff


Posts: 281
Joined: 8/16/2007
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Funny; it seemed to just die over the Christmas break; lively prior to that.

I stopped playing the game about that time to in order to move on to my large backlog but I may be able to help. First off, recreating the real event seems to be a monster problem for west front WW I action for a long time. Back in the 70s, that was the big criticism of the Avalon Hill board game named "1914". Speed accomplished during that fall just doesn't work for an extended period so specialized early rules would be needed.

As both CP and TA, I choose the option that gives more supply to the CP as this seems to mimic history much better. Space your HQs so that there are two armies between them so there is no waste due to overlap control. Put 2-3 corps on each border city in the east and just let the Russians ooze. They cannot afford to just leave them there and the effort to take them gives enough time for the newly arriving corps to fill in the gaps. The Russian HQs only have two orders so they run out after a while and their economy is too slow to fill them very quickly. Also, as the game progresses, stack a cavalry with an infantry and move the cavalry into a vacant hex next turn and as long as the opposing side doesn't try to move into that space, the cavalry will - no points need be extended for this 1/2 speed movement. This works best in the east front. Go direct for Paris and counterattack any TA breakthroughs there. I usually get by with 3 stacks on the Rhein with some re-enforcements from the newly arrived corps. As per Italy, use diplomacy to delay their entry until after RU is dealt with. I personally like to hold the main border cities wit 3 stacks and use the rest to fairly quickly take out Serbia. Again, do not waste points with overlap and three HQs on the RU front should be sufficient until Serbia falls. In WW I, Serbia never did surrender officially and most often, Bulgaria gets involved just in time for the death of the Serbian army or slightly after. Beware that many human opponents use the nonhistoric tactic of placing the entire RU army for a drive on Vienna first off. The above defense will do nothing for that.

Hope this was helpful. I spent many months of enjoyment playing this game.

(in reply to jscott991)
Post #: 2
RE: 1914 Questions - 4/25/2009 5:29:44 AM   
jscott991


Posts: 529
Joined: 4/23/2009
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The biggest what-if in WWI is could the Schlieffen plan have worked.  I guess Guns of August determines before the game begins that no, it couldn't.  Corps moving only one hex per impulse makes it impossible, almost if there wasn't even a TE army in the way.

That's a big minus for this game.  The years after 1914 just don't have the same allure.

(in reply to lordhoff)
Post #: 3
RE: 1914 Questions - 4/25/2009 12:37:48 PM   
Stwa


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/12/2005
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When playing 1914 as CP, I always strip troops from the WF to shore up the EF. I seem to have better success when I do NOT try to go through Belgium.

(in reply to jscott991)
Post #: 4
RE: 1914 Questions - 4/25/2009 9:57:20 PM   
SewerStarFish


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/7/2007
From: Reading, Pa. USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991
I'm having trouble accomplishing much of anything as the CP in 1914. So I thought I'd ask a few general questions.

1. How on Earth can Germany establish an eastern front without stripping the west? I can't seem to get enough forces east by 1915 to establish any kind of stability. The Russians just seem to ooze around the map. Austria is having this same problem. The front is simpy huge compared to the number of forces the CP can allocate there.

I don't look forward to creating an Italian front from scratch.

The later scenarios (1915 on) seem much easier because the front is already established. But you just don't seem to have the corps and rail movement to duplicate this.

2. I've taken Belgrade as Austria, but I can't seem to get much further. Is it best at this point to just wait for the Bulgars to join the war? Austria just doesn't seem to have enough activations to make a real breakthrough. Its easy enough to take Belgrade, but there aren't enough corps or HQ's to create a front much deeper in Serbia.

3. Germany can't seem to duplicate its 1914 success -- just in terms of logistics. Moving one hex per impulse, at best if an attack is successful, will only get you to Lille by September. After that, even winning battles doesn't help a lot because your forward HQ's run out of activations. I suppose I could try to elaborately swap the southern western front HQ's with Kluck et al, but that seems hard to do.

Is the best CP strategy to push into Belgium, stop, and then start just pouring troops east? If you can't take Paris, there seems little point to losing Breslau, Lemberg, and Krakow.


1) I'm assuming this question is about a Russia first CP strategy. Take your initial German set-up forces, and after building your Switzerland to Beligium line, set up two groups: Prussia, guard Konigsberg but set it up to drive southward towards Warsaw, and a second smaller group west of Lodz to drive eastward towards Warsaw. With AH, take units from Serbia and creat a line from Tarnopol to Krakow, you should be able to get reinforcements to the mountains west of Czernowitz later. This AH line should try to swing left targeting Ivangorod and Lublin. Remember Russia has a lot of units but not a lot of HQ points, she can fight back but not as long as the CP. Whether you're playing a human or the AI, Russia must try to defend Warsaw and Lublin and then those foods adjacent Rowno.

Likewise either opponent will see Russia first and be aggressive on the West -- dig in, Russia takes a while.

2) Serbia is a pain. Take Belgrade and use cavalry to push but concentrate on Russia. Remember you can easily win the game without conquering Serbia. IIRC Serbia was not conquered in WWI

3) I always concentrate my German HQ's toward the right when trying the von Schlieffen, leave just one in the south to counter attack.. Put some cavalry on the right to advance into empty hexes too. You have to alternate which HQ activates units and deploy them with with a plan in mind. All I can say is, I've done it; maybe I was lucky.


< Message edited by SewerStarFish -- 4/25/2009 9:58:12 PM >

(in reply to jscott991)
Post #: 5
RE: 1914 Questions - 4/26/2009 5:43:03 AM   
jscott991


Posts: 529
Joined: 4/23/2009
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Actually, I was trying to figure out how to deploy forces on the Russian front WHILE trying the Schlieffen plan. The Russians ooze around the map and Germany simply doesn't have the corps to establish a front. I gave up and adopted the plan suggested earlier of just putting some corps in the VP cities.

The Schlieffen plan is actually impossible, because the game causes armies to move too slowly. Even if there wasn't a French army in your way, you can't move enough hexes to take Paris according to the Schlieffen timetable. The earliest you could take it in the game is on the sixth impulse if you sweep through Belgium, assuming you have the activations. Considering there is a French army and that you have to reconcentrate your forces to break even the weak front that appears on the French left, it simply can't seem to be done. I'm not saying you can't take Paris. I'm just saying that the designer must be in the camp that Schlieffen plan's was impossible, which is a valid position, but kind of disappointing if people want a what-if WWI game.

Serbia was conquered, though remnants of the Serbian army formed a large part of the allied army at Salonika. It was conquered, however, by German forces, with support from the Bulgars. Austria couldn't even manage this part of the front on its own.

(in reply to SewerStarFish)
Post #: 6
RE: 1914 Questions - 4/26/2009 6:26:27 AM   
lordhoff


Posts: 281
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Agree; I've just never found any game that covers the whole war that is able to recreate this action; same with the 1940 attack. I have the gut feeling that, with enough thought, this problem could be overcome in a smooth way. Not so sure with 1940 as that requires the allies to act in a foolish manner.

When the bugs are worked out from the new matrix published WW I game, I'll be trying that to see how it handles 1914 in the west.

Still, GoA handles the broad scale, ie, strategic aspects, of the war well and, from prior posts by the creator, I believe this was the intent. Most things are handled in an abstracted way for the "flavor" of the war.

(in reply to jscott991)
Post #: 7
RE: 1914 Questions - 4/26/2009 12:26:38 PM   
SewerStarFish


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/7/2007
From: Reading, Pa. USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991
Actually, I was trying to figure out how to deploy forces on the Russian front WHILE trying the Schlieffen plan. The Russians ooze around the map and Germany simply doesn't have the corps to establish a front. I gave up and adopted the plan suggested earlier of just putting some corps in the VP cities.

The Schlieffen plan is actually impossible, because the game causes armies to move too slowly. Even if there wasn't a French army in your way, you can't move enough hexes to take Paris according to the Schlieffen timetable. The earliest you could take it in the game is on the sixth impulse if you sweep through Belgium, assuming you have the activations. Considering there is a French army and that you have to reconcentrate your forces to break even the weak front that appears on the French left, it simply can't seem to be done. I'm not saying you can't take Paris. I'm just saying that the designer must be in the camp that Schlieffen plan's was impossible, which is a valid position, but kind of disappointing if people want a what-if WWI game.

Serbia was conquered, though remnants of the Serbian army formed a large part of the allied army at Salonika. It was conquered, however, by German forces, with support from the Bulgars. Austria couldn't even manage this part of the front on its own.


If it's any consolation, and I know it really isn't, I have twice been able to von Schlieffen GoA. Admittedly it was against the AI, and oddly enough I had one that looked 'timeline' equivalent. And each time France shrugged off the loss of Paris and it took another year or two to finish France. In regards to Russia during these campaigns: I always take some of my 'at start' forces to hold Konigsberg,Thorn and Breslau; reinforcements are placed east as needed but replacements go west; AH either has to drive or offer tasty targets to soak of those precious Russian HQ points, I leave British force alone -- let them die counter attacking, and I expend my fleet in the Atlantic drawing TE resources there.

Tell you what, let me try another enfilade right vs France and I'll post AARs. I guarantee it will fail horribly; you can mock me and decry that all my previous posts were balderdash.
No seriously, it can be done -- at least vs AI.

_____________________________

Why choose the lesser evil: Vote Cthulhu.

(in reply to jscott991)
Post #: 8
RE: 1914 Questions - 4/26/2009 5:54:28 PM   
SewerStarFish


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/7/2007
From: Reading, Pa. USA
Status: offline
Here is my ongoing AAR:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2097857

_____________________________

Why choose the lesser evil: Vote Cthulhu.

(in reply to SewerStarFish)
Post #: 9
RE: 1914 Questions - 4/27/2009 12:26:29 AM   
SewerStarFish


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/7/2007
From: Reading, Pa. USA
Status: offline
Since my save games won't load don't bother with my AAR. Here's a picture for my last sucessful von Schlieffen March/April 1915




Attachment (1)

(in reply to SewerStarFish)
Post #: 10
RE: 1914 Questions - 4/27/2009 3:52:32 AM   
jscott991


Posts: 529
Joined: 4/23/2009
Status: offline
Impressive, but you missed the Schlieffen timetable by about 7 months.  :)

Still, that's a pretty good job.  I'm nowhere near in that position in my current game.

Based on your AAR, though, I'm mis-using cavalry and too mild on the Russian front. I didn't really even start attacking there until 1915 and Russia even layed down some entrenchments, which surprised me.

< Message edited by jscott991 -- 4/27/2009 4:15:35 AM >

(in reply to SewerStarFish)
Post #: 11
RE: 1914 Questions - 4/27/2009 12:37:06 PM   
SewerStarFish


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/7/2007
From: Reading, Pa. USA
Status: offline
Yes it took me a while to figure how much Cavalry helps you save HQ points:with Turkey and just the four HQ points from Sanders and Izzet, I have cleared the mountains north of Batum and reached Rostov. Now admittedly most games I can't get Batum and Tbilisi but two stacks of a Cav with an Inf can get cut off quite a bit of territory.

(in reply to jscott991)
Post #: 12
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