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atacker - defender conquered province

 
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atacker - defender conquered province - 4/20/2009 9:19:20 AM   
Maulet

 

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Hi all,

playing as Spain.

I have conquered the province of Carintia (or similar) to Austria, and there isn't unrest.

3 Turns later, Austria have come to Carintia and engaged combat versus me.

And here my surprise and question: in forge of freedom when the province was conquered (and there wasn't unrest) by me I was the defender.

Why now I am the atacker and Austria the defender if the province have been conquered by me ? (peace is not still enforced).

Thanks!

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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/20/2009 12:06:10 PM   
Hard Sarge


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do you have a snap shot of the map ?

it sounds like you did not conquered the province yet

you can take a province from a enemy, but it still belongs to that nation, until it is ceded to you, or it was a protectorate that changes side

so, during the battle, it is still seen as belonging to the enemy, even though you control it

(now, if it was your province, and I am reading what happened wrong, then it sounds like a bug)




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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/20/2009 12:56:11 PM   
Maulet

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

do you have a snap shot of the map ?

it sounds like you did not conquered the province yet

you can take a province from a enemy, but it still belongs to that nation, until it is ceded to you, or it was a protectorate that changes side

so, during the battle, it is still seen as belonging to the enemy, even though you control it

(now, if it was your province, and I am reading what happened wrong, then it sounds like a bug)





the province was conquered by me, but not belongs to me because the war is not finished yet.

But my question or doubt is: I am only defender if the province is core mine ??? Can I not to be defender if the province is only conquered in a war ??

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/20/2009 1:18:46 PM   
bjmorgan


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In the game the term "conquered" means that you have total control of the province.  For a province of another player nation, that means you can only get total control by treaty.  To conquor a province of a minor nation, you have to conquer that nation completely.

So, "conquered" does not mean "posession," it means that there are no foreign claims to the province, at least in game terms.

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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/20/2009 3:08:39 PM   
Maulet

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

In the game the term "conquered" means that you have total control of the province.  For a province of another player nation, that means you can only get total control by treaty.  To conquor a province of a minor nation, you have to conquer that nation completely.

So, "conquered" does not mean "posession," it means that there are no foreign claims to the province, at least in game terms.


So I will be always the atacker???

In forge of freedom the system was the reverse: if the province was under my control I was the defender.

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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/20/2009 7:42:36 PM   
Rondor

 

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It is rather strange to be the attacker even though the enemy moved into the province you occupied first.

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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/20/2009 10:01:11 PM   
Maulet

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rondor

It is rather strange to be the attacker even though the enemy moved into the province you occupied first.


Yes, it is very strange.

So, which is the advantage for me if I have occuped a few provinces?? I have not advantage. I am always in no-advantage-----> defender bonus 6 points.

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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/20/2009 10:09:43 PM   
ShaiHulud

 

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You've invaded Austria, so, you should not be perplexed when you find yourself as the attacker. If you desire to stand on defense, try taking an Austrian protectorate province and luring them to you.

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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/20/2009 10:14:16 PM   
Maulet

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaiHulud

You've invaded Austria, so, you should not be perplexed when you find yourself as the attacker. If you desire to stand on defense, try taking an Austrian protectorate province and luring them to you.


So for you: if you attack and pass 5 turns in a province and don't move, and come Austria to this province, you are the atacker, when is supposed that you have 5 months to build defenses, take the best position, etc etc.

Ok "interesting" ...

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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/21/2009 5:17:25 AM   
ShaiHulud

 

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No offense intended, friend. It's just that I can think of many rationales for making the invader the attacker, regardless of the time he's held the province. Poor intelligence, threats to supply lines, endangered units, any of these could force one into having to attack. The enemy's superior knowledge of the terrain and people of the province could easily provide the needed edge to put one's army in jeopardy and force an attack.

How did the 'army re-organization' work for you?

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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/21/2009 12:10:07 PM   
Hard Sarge


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it is war, and the idea is not for you to sit on your butt for 5 or 6 months after taking a Province from the Enemy, you should be driving toward your goal of winning the War

(which, just going by the statement made here, one province taken and then sat in for 5 months, has really not done any damage to the enemy, you have to hunt down the enemy Forces, and drive onto there Cap, for a war to end)




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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/21/2009 2:35:03 PM   
Maulet

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

it is war, and the idea is not for you to sit on your butt for 5 or 6 months after taking a Province from the Enemy, you should be driving toward your goal of winning the War

(which, just going by the statement made here, one province taken and then sat in for 5 months, has really not done any damage to the enemy, you have to hunt down the enemy Forces, and drive onto there Cap, for a war to end)





5 months was an example. Really in the game was only 2 months. Because I have soldiers woundeds and I wanted to recover these men.

And you must imagine that play with a minor country (like spain) you need all your forces ready, and you need to stop to recover and attack again. With spain you can not do a blitzkrieg.

But if is impossible to play with spain because you need a big strenght, big resources, etc, is better spain was not avaible to choose and problem solved


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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/21/2009 3:25:49 PM   
bjmorgan


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There are certainly differences in the individual countries' chances to win.  I think France is the easiest, England next, Prussia and Austria next.  The otehrs behind.  That's from my experience, others may disagree.  I have migrated towards those countries that have a harder time winning (Russia/Turkey/Spain) just for the challenge, but I learned the game playing France and Britain.

So, maybe you shoud try the same thing.  Spain is in a VERY difficult position and has to get a little lucky to have much of a chance.  Generally, if she goes to war with France, even one time, she's in real trouble, because France can crush the poor Spaniards like no other country can.  But, Spain is fun to play, in any case.  Go with the long games (23 years, Highest Glory).  I've had better luck with those.

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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/21/2009 3:35:13 PM   
Anthropoid


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As an old FoF player myself, I too was surprised when this happened to me the first time. However, I think it is an improvement. As the experiences of Vietnam, and Iraq (and countless others through the ages) show: invading, occupying, and "conquering" do not equate with total control of the area or its population. The idea that the native owner and the people will retain the initiative and be able to have the defensive advantage seems not only entirely realistic, but preferable.

Perhaps in ACW context, occupation and driving out enemy military should in most instances allow the invader to become the defender. But even there, I think some areas should show more resistance and having the invader put into the role of attacker with some random probability in some provinces in FoF would be an improvement too I think.

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RE: atacker - defender conquered province - 4/21/2009 5:23:46 PM   
dude

 

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Don't know if it can be coded this way or not but why not set up Meeting Engagement types of battles... ie neither side is awarded the defender bonus and if the victory locations are near the center of the map you both have to fight for them.  I know there have been a number of battles where I felt odd getting the defender bonus but likewise annoyed in others that I was considered the attacker.  And in a few I felt we both had moved and neither was the defender... just a thought.



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