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not the wait....really - 3/20/2009 2:58:30 AM   
madgamer2

 

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Here we have a great group of guys working there backsides off on the AE project and we get absolutely nothing from the Matrix brass. Do they know about AE, do they ever intend to announce that WitP has gone gold (which I think it has). The one fault of this company is they don't say anything. I still think at some point in some really bad nightmare they will say that AE was just a research project for the new upcoming design of WitP 2 for which we will have to wait ...who knows how long. It is just a bad dream right? I mean if Matrix would say SOMETHING even if it turned out wrong at least we would know they care about something other than the bottom line (RANT over)

Madgamer
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RE: not the wait....really - 3/20/2009 3:02:29 AM   
witpqs


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I've seen them say plenty here in these forums at various times. Guess you missed them all.

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/20/2009 4:11:59 AM   
wdolson

 

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Please be patient.  AE will happen.  Of that I am sure.  No need to be paranoid.

Unlike some software companies, Matrix doesn't announce release dates until they are 99.9% sure it's the real release date.  It is sometimes frustrating, but it's also a positive thing.

Bill


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RE: not the wait....really - 3/20/2009 4:28:30 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

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Whats AE?

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/20/2009 4:34:03 AM   
Nomad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Whats AE?


AE = Artistic Expansion, a large group of new artwork for WitP.

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/20/2009 5:17:16 AM   
wworld7


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IMHO, enough has been said by the brass (go way back and read the threads).

Why you would want them to say something even if it is wrong is beyond me.

Incorrect information causes problems and then more people WHINE.

Have faith, when the gang is done Matrix will let us know.



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RE: not the wait....really - 3/20/2009 9:09:30 AM   
m10bob


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What if the AE project had never been revealed?

What would any of us be doing with our time right now?

IMHO, it was not announced to whip anybody into a frenzy. The "wishlist" was already out there, as was the interest in an improved WITP.

I still feel the project and this part of the forum was revealed as a means to acquaint us with how the game will be played out in the future, to somewhat ease that learning curve.

This will be, for all intent and purposes......."The Official Mod".

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/20/2009 3:42:04 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer
Here we have a great group of guys working there backsides off on the AE project and we get absolutely nothing from the Matrix brass. Do they know about AE, do they ever intend to announce that WitP has gone gold (which I think it has). The one fault of this company is they don't say anything. I still think at some point in some really bad nightmare they will say that AE was just a research project for the new upcoming design of WitP 2 for which we will have to wait ...who knows how long. It is just a bad dream right? I mean if Matrix would say SOMETHING even if it turned out wrong at least we would know they care about something other than the bottom line (RANT over)


Actually, I've posted quite a bit here. If AE had "gone gold" we would have announced it. It has not "gone gold" yet. We also officially announced AE over a year ago with a press release, front page announcement and forum announcement and there's an official AE forum and an AE product page in our Coming Soon section. Not sure where this rant came from, but you're off-base.

Regards,

- Erik


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RE: not the wait....really - 3/20/2009 3:44:40 PM   
Terminus


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It would make precisely no sense for a company NOT to announce that something as eagerly awaited as AE had gone gold. Very strange post by Madgamer...

< Message edited by Terminus -- 3/20/2009 3:57:19 PM >


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RE: not the wait....really - 3/20/2009 3:55:36 PM   
witpqs


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What's the URL for Matrix Gold, Termi?

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/20/2009 3:58:27 PM   
Terminus


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Pfffttt...

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 12:11:14 AM   
madgamer2

 

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Just now does "going gold" have anything to do with any game project? If it was a trip wire to a process that would eventually result in a newer version of a "Gone Gold" game that would be well and good. WitP as popular as it is with the loyal readers of this forum may nont constitute "Going Gold" which I assume means selling a certain number of copies of a game. So two dumb questions pop into my old head.

1. what happens to AE if WirP does not go Gold? I would think that a game that does not reach this status would bu put on the back burner as far as future versions of it are concerned

2. We have been told that "going Gold" is necessary for AE to be released (I hope I am wrong here). WHy if AE is not an official in house matrix project is Gold status necessary?

You have stated on many occasions that you guys do the work (mostly on your time) and at some point they say
ok the release date is..... I worry that they might be using all of you for there own gains. I believe what you say Eric and I have great admiration for all who are helping. I guess what I don't have is faith that it will actually happen. Your the only person who says its going to happen that I believe other than YH.
The game has been out a number of years now and has not reached Gold?
Did it become notable at some point that it needed work that patching just would not cure. Now the company can't justify a new version of a game unless certain things are met, like sales I get the idea that till that magic GOLD status happens no AE.
I also get the idea that a dedicated group of players and staff persons like yourself working on there own time and bringing the forum members in on the AE project would make the game much better which it will. I just wonder what happens to AE IF the gold status is not reached. Also if this is not an official upgrade why is the gold status even part of the picture unless it is part of any project like an upgrade, expansion or patch be it official or unofficial which in its way makes sense.
It is also to bad that everything comes down to money but that is they way itis and will alway be. I wonder if there was an announcement that x number of copies of the game need to be sold how many of us would buy another one just to get the Gold status and see AE released. Even though I am retired and on a fixed income I would do so in a flash. Well you still can put me dow as a paranoid old guy (which I am) but I love this game anyway even though I play it badly.

Madgamer
W


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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 12:16:51 AM   
Terminus


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Let me see if I can explain this to you (providing you're willing to understand)... The game has to go Gold, because Matrix can't prepare it for publication until it has gone Gold.

It won't achieve Gold status until we (Henderson Field Designs) decide that it's ready. Then we hand it over to Matrix who take it from Gold to Release status.

It can't be explained any clearer than that. Why the hell wouldn't it go Gold?

< Message edited by Terminus -- 3/21/2009 12:20:16 AM >


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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 12:23:36 AM   
Iron Duke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

Just now does "going gold" have anything to do with any game project? If it was a trip wire to a process that would eventually result in a newer version of a "Gone Gold" game that would be well and good. WitP as popular as it is with the loyal readers of this forum may nont constitute "Going Gold" which I assume means selling a certain number of copies of a game. So two dumb questions pop into my old head.

1. what happens to AE if WirP does not go Gold? I would think that a game that does not reach this status would bu put on the back burner as far as future versions of it are concerned

2. We have been told that "going Gold" is necessary for AE to be released (I hope I am wrong here). WHy if AE is not an official in house matrix project is Gold status necessary?

You have stated on many occasions that you guys do the work (mostly on your time) and at some point they say
ok the release date is..... I worry that they might be using all of you for there own gains. I believe what you say Eric and I have great admiration for all who are helping. I guess what I don't have is faith that it will actually happen. Your the only person who says its going to happen that I believe other than YH.
The game has been out a number of years now and has not reached Gold?
Did it become notable at some point that it needed work that patching just would not cure. Now the company can't justify a new version of a game unless certain things are met, like sales I get the idea that till that magic GOLD status happens no AE.
I also get the idea that a dedicated group of players and staff persons like yourself working on there own time and bringing the forum members in on the AE project would make the game much better which it will. I just wonder what happens to AE IF the gold status is not reached. Also if this is not an official upgrade why is the gold status even part of the picture unless it is part of any project like an upgrade, expansion or patch be it official or unofficial which in its way makes sense.
It is also to bad that everything comes down to money but that is they way itis and will alway be. I wonder if there was an announcement that x number of copies of the game need to be sold how many of us would buy another one just to get the Gold status and see AE released. Even though I am retired and on a fixed income I would do so in a flash. Well you still can put me dow as a paranoid old guy (which I am) but I love this game anyway even though I play it badly.

Madgamer
W



I believe 'Going Gold'is a term used in the games industry for when a game is finished and ready for mass production does not mean number of copies sold.


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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 12:29:09 AM   
Terminus


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Also, why the HELL would we say it would happen if it's not? And why are you here, if you don't believe the game is coming?

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 4:49:11 AM   
m10bob


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Iron Duke has hit the crux of the problem..Madgamer has misunderstood the last 6 months of the entire AE forum.
He thinks "vanilla" WITP has to "go gold"(numbers sold like records), when in fact "going gold" in this case means "The AE project has reached the point of imminent release.."

Honest mistake......

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 4:51:59 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

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I believe the term "gone gold" originally referred to the color of the disk. Writable disks were gold colored so "going gold" meant that the programmers had burned it onto a disk and sent it off to the publisher.

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 5:33:01 AM   
madgamer2

 

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alright thanks for the info as I seemed to have the silly idea that it had something to do with sales...silly ol me. So you tell us that you do the design work and Matrix decides the release date but not till you decide is ready for gold status? Matrix gives you no time line and you have total control over doing the AE project. On top of which you have no clue as to when it will "be ready"?
So Matrix hands the game over to this what ever the name is design group and allows you to do what ever you wish as long as the game engine is not tampered with. It must have accrued to you that the more change the more you have to test and the more you test the more youhave to change.....yada......yada.....Yada. I know you know that you have to draw the line and let it fly on its own at somepoint and I hope at least you have an idea of when it will be.
Being a simple person I know this is a complex game and even a few changes would require a large amount of testing. From what has been told us there are lots of changes there fore at some point you have to stop making changes ad play the game. Even if and when you get to a point where you ask for people to play test the whole game it will be a massive project
When the day arrives where the different design groupa (land,sea,air etc) actually sit down and put it together will be a great day. The more you work on it the more you have to work on it. No matter what happens I commend you for your efforts even if I am noit real happy with the tone of this post I am replying to. Answer me ONE question truthfully: If youhad any idea of what you would be getting into when you started would you fhave...got involved?

Madgamer


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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 5:36:19 AM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

We have been told that "going Gold" is necessary for AE to be released (I hope I am wrong here). WHy if AE is not an official in house matrix project is Gold status necessary?



Right - I think we finally figured out the mystery here.

In the old "record" industry (yes I was alive in those days!) "GOLD" meant having sold x-copies. However, there is a totally different meaning in the computer game industry - now GOLD means - "mastered" - which means the "master copy" of the pre-released game - has been created. Once this is created then the game can proceed through the release process. Once a game "goes GOLD" it is "ready for release". So yes, a game absolutely has to "go GOLD" in order to release. That is EXACTLY what has to happen!

madgamer isn't the only person ever to be confused by this terminology. It seems like some of us were even more confused by his confusion - than the level of his original confusion - and some of us should know better!


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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 11:48:50 AM   
wdolson

 

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What can be amazing sometimes is how we are all speaking English (and the majority here are native speakers), but we don't understand each other.

Bill


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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 1:44:10 PM   
PaulWRoberts

 

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Wait--what? We have to pay for our copies of AE in *GOLD*??? Old-fashioned paper money are IOU's are good enough for Matrix any more??

Suffice to say that I am outraged.

Fortunately, I know some gentlemen in WOW who are more than happy to translate dollars and euros into good, honest, down-to-Azeroth gold. I believe I have an email from them around here somewhere...

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 1:46:22 PM   
Terminus


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Not necessarily gold... Oil, diamonds, stem cells... Let's talk!

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 2:08:35 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Ok, I understand the confusion now. Sorry Madgamer, seems like we were working from two totally different dictionaries. Now that I realize what you thought you had read, I understand why you were talking about us not caring about anything but money. WITP AE's release is not in any way dependent on WITP's sales level.

Matrix has been very involved with the AE project from beginning to end. I spend a good part of my time each week keeping up with every development post, assembling the latest beta build and testing it, synchronizing with Joe on project priorities and timelines, etc. Both with the development team and with Matrix, this project is in good hands and going well.

Your initial post, before we realized we were using different dictionaries, came across as much more insulting than it was intended. Let me apologize in hindsight for reacting strongly to that.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 3/21/2009 2:09:59 PM >


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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 3:08:39 PM   
m10bob


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In some of my posts in the AE forum, I sometimes preface my question with these words: "I am not sharpshooting, I really do not know the answer",(and I then ask the question, innocently), as did Madgamer, I'm sure.

As was pointed out above, sometimes in spite of a "common language" amongst many of us, we still might misinterpret..

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 3:16:26 PM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

If AE had "gone gold" we would have announced it. It has not "gone gold" yet.


Good Lord! That's insane! So Henderson Field hands over a plastic DVD to Matrix, who dispatches it to the alchemists in the backroom and we just have to sit around and pray while they try to transmute it into Gold? That's positively medieval!

< Message edited by Kull -- 3/21/2009 3:18:38 PM >

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 4:01:00 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

In some of my posts in the AE forum, I sometimes preface my question with these words: "I am not sharpshooting, I really do not know the answer",(and I then ask the question, innocently), as did Madgamer, I'm sure.

As was pointed out above, sometimes in spite of a "common language" amongst many of us, we still might misinterpret..


I have to do that with the wife sometimes

Actually "sometimes" isnt accurate. Try "almost always"

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 8:34:52 PM   
m10bob


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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 8:42:33 PM   
Terminus


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Indeed...

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/21/2009 11:49:42 PM   
madgamer2

 

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MY whole life believe it or not has been a struggle to communicate with the written word. In part this is due to being forced in early grade school to write right handed. In thoses long lost days it was not allowed ..... EVERYONE Wrote right handed. So what effect could this have on a person. The reare folks here with far more degrees to there name than me.
My entire learning ability would have been different if I had been alowed to write left handed as that would make me a right brain dominate person. I won't bore you with the trouble it has caused me and is in its own way a kind of learning disability. t be came almost impossible for me to learn certain things like proper written english, math and other such things.
Now that I have grown old there are times I get very frustrated because of my lack of writing skill. I am a musician of middling ability who play the guitar and writes songs that are very simple because music is basically a form of language and because of my writing right handed what I want to write in my head never seems to come out on the written page.
Eric no one set out to insult anyone here we are both adult but I was in total ignorance of the process being used to design AE. It is in a sense a new way and with a game that was already complicated when AE was started.
The fact that people like yourself who do have jobs in the real world and others who are great supporters of this game are trying something new, a different way of upgrading a game. It is easy for us out here in game player land to not see the forest for the trees. Of late you have shared a little more information with us which I think is good even if it makes us want the thing released even sooner. I don't think it is a siuation
that you can win. You know damned if you do and damned if you don't.
There must be times when you and the others on the team ask yourself if it is all worth it. I hope it is. We may never see an effort like this again because we may never see a game like this again. I think it will result in forwarding the process of development and design of games in the future so your not just doing AE your doing gaming history. There is no preset path here each step is hard earned and in the end I believe we we will have an even bett game.

Madgamer

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RE: not the wait....really - 3/22/2009 5:09:41 AM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

MY whole life believe it or not has been a struggle to communicate with the written word. In part this is due to being forced in early grade school to write right handed. In thoses long lost days it was not allowed ..... EVERYONE Wrote right handed. So what effect could this have on a person. The reare folks here with far more degrees to there name than me.
My entire learning ability would have been different if I had been alowed to write left handed as that would make me a right brain dominate person. I won't bore you with the trouble it has caused me and is in its own way a kind of learning disability. t be came almost impossible for me to learn certain things like proper written english, math and other such things.
(quote)


There was a fellow once who was born with an astigmatism, everything he read was percieved backwards of how it was really written. He had grave problems compensating, and had a lot to uphold, family-wise as his family had been full of achievers, militarily and in business.
As he grew older, he had learned to hide his disability so well almost nobody was aware he had it. He was allowed into West Point, and in time gained a commission.
He was always trying to stand out, was an excellent shot, took great risks in combat against Pancho Villas bandits, and was wounded and decorated in WW1..
He stood out so well that Gen Pershing once personally "drafted " him to participate in the Olympics,to represent the U.S. in shooting and horsemanship.
With only a few weeks notice, he managed to place something like 7th place..
His army career continued, and while often controversial, he would never be called a coward, and was always leading his men by example.
This was G.S.Patton Jr.

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