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RE: Passenger Ships

 
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RE: Passenger Ships - 4/15/2009 5:24:12 AM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12398
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online 		Wait a minute - did you say 'net tenders'? I'm sure you did! Are submarine nets modeled in AE, too? Is there anything you guys didn't put in there?

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 121
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/15/2009 5:38:43 AM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2827
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
JWE: well can you show us some of those little harbour launches, patrols, minefield tenders, lighters, ...
For both sides if possible

ok, here's a few.

YMS-1, Castle Class Trawler, Beam Trawler-type YP, Fairmile HDML
To’su Trawler, Cha-1 Tuna boat SC, T-51 MTB/MGB, Wa-101

All the different trawlers can be patrol boats, coastal minesweepers, net tenders, you name it. They can convert back & forth with little delay. I kinda like the Japanese CHa-1 tuna boat sub chaser. At 10-11 knots I’m sure it could chase; whether it could catch anything is an open question.







Sounds like my subs are either gonna have a hell of a lot of new targets to play with or maybe places they don't want to go to?

And what exactly does the AI do with all of these, because in WITP the AI didn't really use tenders as intended?

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 122
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/15/2009 1:56:28 PM   
RevRick


Posts: 2505
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Just above the gnat line, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KJB

AND STILL WE ARE....


Shhh... You aren't supposed to discuss The Continuum here!!!! And don't start playing with the Gravitational Constant or the Space/Time Flux either.

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There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. - Bernardo de la Paz

(in reply to KJB)
Post #: 123
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/15/2009 1:58:08 PM   
RevRick


Posts: 2505
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Just above the gnat line, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Can we get an "iceberg" too?


Sorry, I have no idea where my ex-wife is.


Hmmm.. We could put yours and mine together and have a Habbakkuk!

_____________________________

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. - Bernardo de la Paz

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 124
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/15/2009 3:30:21 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8013
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

And what exactly does the AI do with all of these, because in WITP the AI didn't really use tenders as intended?


The AI will use the small minesweepers to form local minesweeper TFs at it's ports. The Minefield tenders are distributed (by the AI) to maintain defensive minefields based on size of port and number of mines. The small patrol types are used to form local defensive ASW patrols.

The player should pretty much do the same. Small patrol types can also be used for escorts in barge, landing craft, and various transport TFs (endurance being a limiting issue).

Another excellent use of small patrol types is routine patrols between two nearby bases. Lunga-Tulagi for instance, or Fukuoka-Fusan, or Batavia-Merak-Oosthaven, or maybe Oak Harbor-Victoria-Vancouver. Use the patrol zone feature with refueling option and you have a "set and forget" local ASW patrol (although you may have to bring in a little fuel once it a while). If you use small ports, bring in an AG and YO or small Tanker and create a temporary patrol base.



(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 125
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/15/2009 3:37:05 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6576
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Very, very useful little thingys.

There are several different game designations for these. These are what the game terms “Small Craft” and the AI builds its port defense TFs from these.

ACM is listed, although it isn’t used as an ASW platform. It prevents decay of defensive minefields and can lay the odd mine or two itself.

SC - Sub Chaser
PC - Patrol Craft
PB - Patrol Boat
YP - District Patrol Craft
MTB - Motor Torpedo Boat
MGB - Motor Gun Boat
HDML - Harbor Defense Motor Launch
ML - Motor Launch
YMS - Motor Minesweeper
AMc - Coastal Minesweeper

ACM - Minefield Tender


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(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 126
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/15/2009 5:02:53 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12098
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 127
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/15/2009 7:45:45 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5264
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

I kinda like the Japanese CHa-1 tuna boat sub chaser. At 10-11 knots I’m sure it could chase; whether it could catch anything is an open question.



It must be able to catch Tuna! If not USS Tuna that is, the real thing must swim under 10kts.

Love the small boats! They figured prominently in the Doolittle raid, when that jap trawler picket line picked up Hornet's TF. Will trawlers have the range to be out that far in the Pacific? Have you guys used them as pickets so far in game tests?


(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 128
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/15/2009 8:36:08 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6576
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
It must be able to catch Tuna! If not USS Tuna that is, the real thing must swim under 10kts.

Love the small boats! They figured prominently in the Doolittle raid, when that jap trawler picket line picked up Hornet's TF. Will trawlers have the range to be out that far in the Pacific? Have you guys used them as pickets so far in game tests?

You can post them anywhere you want, given their endurance.

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Post #: 129
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/27/2009 11:01:44 AM   
Skyland


Posts: 196
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		Will the ex french liners seized by the japanese in mid 42 be included ? I am thinking about renamed teikin maru, teison maru, teika maru, teiko maru, teiritsu maru, teibi maru and teia maru.
Thanks.

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 130
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/27/2009 2:30:54 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12069
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick


quote:

ORIGINAL: KJB

AND STILL WE ARE....


Shhh... You aren't supposed to discuss The Continuum here!!!! And don't start playing with the Gravitational Constant or the Space/Time Flux either.


Can we talk about the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle?

(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 131
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/27/2009 3:19:14 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8013
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

Can we talk about the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle?


Perhaps...

(in reply to BrucePowers)
Post #: 132
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/27/2009 3:20:34 PM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline 		In CHS we already have Teik(y)o Maru (ex-d'Artagnan) and Teia Maru (ex-Aramis). The only website I have been able to find that carries information about all the seized French ships on a single page is this Japanese site. Go to the Annex link (details of the hyperlink are shown in English in IE when you allow the mousepointer to dwell on it), then select Annex Item 9. Quite an interesting site for other Japanese shipping matters, particularly if you access it through translation software.

I found quite a good photograph of Cap Varella (ex-Kersaint, became Teika Maru) at this location.

May be of some interest.

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(in reply to Skyland)
Post #: 133
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/27/2009 3:45:58 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2638
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		Late in the war, after most of Japan's merchant marine and navy had been sunk, US submarines began finding these 'small craft' escorting coastal convoys had such a shallow draft they were nearly immune to torpedoes.  Will they be as difficult to torpedo in AE as they were IRL, and if so, how did you model that?

(in reply to Local Yokel)
Post #: 134
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/27/2009 4:00:44 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8013
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Late in the war, after most of Japan's merchant marine and navy had been sunk, US submarines began finding these 'small craft' escorting coastal convoys had such a shallow draft they were nearly immune to torpedoes.  Will they be as difficult to torpedo in AE as they were IRL, and if so, how did you model that?


"torpedo-abiliy" is determined based on type of ship (BB, AK, PT, etc) and a random. We do not keep data for dimensions (including draft) so this is the best we can do. A Sub (or any other ship with torpedoes) may try anyway, or it may engage with gunfire, or it may pick other targets. Random, of course, for may.

(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 135
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/27/2009 4:48:43 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6576
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyland
Will the ex french liners seized by the as in mid 42 be included ? I am thinking about renamed teikin maru, teison maru, teika maru, teiko maru, teiritsu maru, teibi maru and teia maru.
Thanks.

Yes, most of them. D'Artagnon as Teiko Maru - Laconte de Lisle as Teritsu Maru - Bougainville as Teifu Maru - Cap Varella as Teika Maru - Ville de Verdun as Teison Maru.

Others were technically P&C designs so they come in as cargo vessels (xAK) rather than passenger vessels (xAP). Govreneur General A. Varenne as Teiren Maru - Kindia as Teikin Maru - Tai Seun Hong as Teishun Maru.

Because they were all so different, they don’t have their own graphics. They share with the closest Japan vessel having similar size, performance, visual characteristics.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel
In CHS we already have Teik(y)o Maru (ex-d'Artagnan) and Teia Maru (ex-Aramis). The only website I have been able to find that carries information about all the seized French ships on a single page is this Japanese site. Go to the Annex link (details of the hyperlink are shown in English in IE when you allow the mousepointer to dwell on it), then select Annex Item 9. Quite an interesting site for other Japanese shipping matters, particularly if you access it through translation software.

I found quite a good photograph of Cap Varella (ex-Kersaint, became Teika Maru) at this location.

May be of some interest.

It is of much interest, Mr. Palmer. Nice find, and thank you. Nice pic of Cap Varella. I have one of Cap Arawe (one of the 3 sister ships) from Compagnie Generale Transatlantique. Good to see a clearer shot. Thanks again.





Attachment (1)

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(in reply to Local Yokel)
Post #: 136
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/28/2009 8:49:05 AM   
Skyland


Posts: 196
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info about the japanese website.
Regarding the Messageries Maritimes liners you can find nice pictures of Bernardin de Saint Pierre, Aramis, D'Artagnan, Ville de Verdun, Leconte de Lisle on this website : http://www.es-conseil.fr/pramona/18-45.htm

Also some others were used on the opposite side in the pacific like Marechal Joffre (USS Rochambeau), Felix Roussel, Athos II and Si Kiang (in Manilla on Dec 15th 41)

< Message edited by Skyland -- 4/28/2009 8:51:13 AM >

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 137
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/28/2009 7:52:24 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 2579
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		This also a good site for French merchants:

http://www.frenchlines.com/histoire_maritime_fr.php

Compagnie Generale Transatlantique

http://www.frenchlines.com/histoire/histoire_cgt_navires_fr.php

(in reply to Skyland)
Post #: 138
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/28/2009 8:29:09 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6576
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili
This also a good site for French merchants:
http://www.frenchlines.com/histoire_maritime_fr.php
Compagnie Generale Transatlantique
http://www.frenchlines.com/histoire/histoire_cgt_navires_fr.php

Thanks Dili. Nice sites. Well, looking at all the posts, I think we’ve got most everything in the box (thank goodness). Uncle Don Bowen has kept after us and beat us severely about the head and shoulders with a very large birch stick; Brother Kereguelen was not all that far behind. Between the two of them, I think the OOB is about as sweet as a commercial game can get.

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(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 139
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/28/2009 8:49:16 PM   
miller41


Posts: 1020
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		So can you release it now

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(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 140
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/28/2009 9:36:15 PM   
CV Zuikaku

 

Posts: 430
Joined: 12/18/2008
From: Legrad, Croatia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: miller41

So can you release it now


Not yet! Patience! Torpedoes are to be released at the closest possible range!

(in reply to miller41)
Post #: 141
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/28/2009 11:26:05 PM   
miller41


Posts: 1020
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Well the one thing you really have to have even to play WITP is patience so I guess i am good

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Post #: 142
RE: Passenger Ships - 4/29/2009 12:45:59 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 2579
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Aramis/Teia Maru : http://www.frenchlines.com/ship_fr_1026.php

Teibi Maru : http://www.frenchlines.com/ship_fr_1046.php

Kinkai Maru : http://www.frenchlines.com/ship_fr_1079.php

GYOYU MARU : http://www.frenchlines.com/ship_fr_1111.php

TEIRITSU MARU http://www.frenchlines.com/ship_fr_1200.php



< Message edited by Dili -- 4/29/2009 1:11:11 AM >

(in reply to miller41)
Post #: 143
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