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RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements

 
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RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 2/26/2009 12:27:27 PM   
iamspamus

 

Posts: 430
Joined: 11/16/2006
From: Cambridge, UK
Status: offline 		My difficulty is that these are difficult. You don't get the "bang for the buck". You will have a page of rules for ONE EVENT that happens. Why? If you think that the game needs the ability for more flexibility, just use the mechanism in the game (ie. the actual econ phase). Why make a special rule for this?

Oh, and easterner, it's not 6 months, it's 4, unless you're not buying mil.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

These are good points. While I like the idea of an optional econ phase, it looks like there should be a number of restrictions - no minors, no trade, no lending, no militia? Being able to buy some corps counters and have a few modest reinforcements in the pipeline might be nice. But maybe the restrictions would make this more trouble than it's worth?

Maybe an optional reinforcements variant could be introduced? Say an MP could buy 10i or 2c if there were an econ phase. The game could randomly add say 1-5i and 0-1c (half max) and maybe a corps counter to the at-start reinforcement track. Something simple, to add a little suspense to the standard setups and opening moves.




(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 31
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/2/2009 2:48:16 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		an Dec 1804 varriant would be great. Most groupls I played with over the years started the game with an eco phase. Most times there was a lot of MIL in garrisons around the map and money for winter operations. I guess this would be good for everyone but Prussia... no wonder I always bid "1" for that country!!!!!

(in reply to iamspamus)
Post #: 32
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/2/2009 12:18:31 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 1188
Joined: 3/18/2004
Status: offline
quote:

just use the mechanism in the game (ie. the actual econ phase). Why make a special rule for this?


I tend to agree. It should be easiest for Marshall to simply introduce a game option to start with an econ phase, with no special rules. Players can always adopt house rules and agree not to buy militia or minors or whatever.

(in reply to iamspamus)
Post #: 33
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/3/2009 12:22:08 AM   
easterner

 

Posts: 178
Joined: 10/9/2004
Status: offline 		I don't count militia!!!!!


Dec Econ

If Game began 12/04 with Diplo then starting money would need be reduced to approx $5 each to avoid heavy activity in Dec. Jan $$$ would be determined by 12/04 production.

If game begins with 12/04 Prod then money starts at 0.00 for all, and new $$$ is all you get.

In my pre-econ you produced on your base i.e. if 60/25 was your countries base MP/$$ you spent that, only that & any MP/$$$ left over was lost. But that is probably too difficult to program a 1x Econ phase.

(in reply to iamspamus)
Post #: 34
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/3/2009 12:27:56 AM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		If implemented, this HAS to be an option.

(in reply to easterner)
Post #: 35
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/3/2009 1:04:15 AM   
easterner

 

Posts: 178
Joined: 10/9/2004
Status: offline 		Yes it would.

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 36
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/3/2009 1:55:34 PM   
iamspamus

 

Posts: 430
Joined: 11/16/2006
From: Cambridge, UK
Status: offline 		OMG ... ... sputter ... gasp. Neverman and I FINALLY agreed on something.

Have the stars aligned?

Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket...


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

If implemented, this HAS to be an option.


(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 37
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/3/2009 2:55:08 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iamspamus

OMG ... ... sputter ... gasp. Neverman and I FINALLY agreed on something.

Have the stars aligned?

Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket...


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

If implemented, this HAS to be an option.




Don't worry it happens... I'll try not to make a habit of it.

(in reply to iamspamus)
Post #: 38
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/3/2009 7:17:04 PM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline 		By the way, people should think long and hard about using this option (if created). It's clear from the original game design that wars between major powers shouldn't happen very early in the game, although the game allows for that. They had a reason for not having a pre-game econ phase: To keep wars from starting right away. By changing it, you would be creating a different start-of-game situation that allows for much earlier MP wars.

_____________________________

At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 39
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/4/2009 12:07:41 AM   
easterner

 

Posts: 178
Joined: 10/9/2004
Status: offline 		If the Allies don't smack France early, they may not get another chance. I don't ever recall fighting in Sp. & Russ simultaneously as Fr.



(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 40
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/4/2009 12:19:18 AM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 1188
Joined: 3/18/2004
Status: offline
quote:

By changing it, you would be creating a different start-of-game situation that allows for much earlier MP wars.


Well yes but that's the whole point of an OPTION, which is understood here by most. And there are other scenarios besides 1805 to consider. And with the Editor, players can create customized scenarios that could assume an at-start econ phase combined with otherwise reduced starting forces to compensate. THAT could allow players some flexibility to customize their forces for maybe a little more cav or another ship, or additional corps counters.

Obviously there are some who physically cannot bring themselves to consider anything BUT the plain vanilla classic 1805 EiA 1805 campaign, but for other players the potential for interesting and reasonable variations in this computer game version is very attractive. If you can play using "house rules" and other agreed-upon changes in the board game, why not also for the computer game??

(in reply to iamspamus)
Post #: 41
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/4/2009 1:38:42 AM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline 		I'm willing to see what changes do as much as the next guy. But, people on this thread are treating the 1804 econ phase like it's an absolute must. Our gaming group evaluated it, and decided not to play it, because it would very likely allow the central powers to start an immediate (pre-game) war. France wouldn't be much fun to play in that situation unless he pulls off a miracle.

_____________________________

At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 42
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/4/2009 2:20:43 AM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

By changing it, you would be creating a different start-of-game situation that allows for much earlier MP wars.


Well yes but that's the whole point of an OPTION, which is understood here by most. And there are other scenarios besides 1805 to consider. And with the Editor, players can create customized scenarios that could assume an at-start econ phase combined with otherwise reduced starting forces to compensate. THAT could allow players some flexibility to customize their forces for maybe a little more cav or another ship, or additional corps counters.

Obviously there are some who physically cannot bring themselves to consider anything BUT the plain vanilla classic 1805 EiA 1805 campaign, but for other players the potential for interesting and reasonable variations in this computer game version is very attractive. If you can play using "house rules" and other agreed-upon changes in the board game, why not also for the computer game??


Actually, I think there were a lot of things discussed when this game was first being developed that MANY people thought would be options, and in fact, turned out to not be options at all, so I think it's good to keep pointing this out to the powers that be.

OPTION OPTION OPTION

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 43
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/4/2009 10:54:35 AM   
iamspamus

 

Posts: 430
Joined: 11/16/2006
From: Cambridge, UK
Status: offline 		Concur. We thought about it, but never used it. We felt like you don't need it. Besides, if you wanna be a warmonger...(WTF, this is a wargame, but...) right off the bat, then you pay with infantry. If you wanna wait for 4 months til the weather's better and you have some militia, then that's good too.

Also, the current setup allows for an Ottoman attack before others are ready. They get their freebie inf early, so that upsets that balance too.

On that note, I don't care if it's an optional. I would always fight against using it. But I would fight for easterner's right to have it as an optional too.

Where's Mardonius with his million optionals? I mean ME asked what he should work on next! Marrrr-DOOOOOH-nius...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

I'm willing to see what changes do as much as the next guy. But, people on this thread are treating the 1804 econ phase like it's an absolute must. Our gaming group evaluated it, and decided not to play it, because it would very likely allow the central powers to start an immediate (pre-game) war. France wouldn't be much fun to play in that situation unless he pulls off a miracle.


(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 44
RE: Pre January 1805 reinforcements - 3/5/2009 3:01:50 PM   
easterner

 

Posts: 178
Joined: 10/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iamspamus





On that note, I don't care if it's an optional. I would always fight against using it. But I would fight for easterner's right to have it as an optional too.


That's the attitude to have!

In the original there was an option to promote militia, that wasn't repeated in AH version. I kept it though. I'd like to see Bernadotte move to Sweden. Leaderwise: Where's Scharnhorst & Victor? What value is Jerome?

There's no reason why we can't have the things we want: all as options. Matrix doesn't have to be a charity. They can sell us a 1793 Expansion kit loaded with options for both games 1805/1792.

Hint for Matrix WORLD IN FLAMES. Like EiA a cult favorite, feel free to get the cultists involved in it, you'll end up selling more units long term. Avoid the pitchfork & torch crowd coming in post production and asking: "You started this design when DOS ruled and its still not right?"


(in reply to iamspamus)
Post #: 45
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