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RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games

 
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RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/13/2009 6:24:58 PM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
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From: A Sand Road
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ONCE MORE . . .

quote:

Chad - don´t repeat those ancient posts. The long spacing since those days are the reason for this thread here. I was asking for true and present, actual and current info from the CF team.
Let´s just see what happens!

IKE - calm down and let them show up. If they don´t, our presumptions will get proved right. (what I do not hope!)


OK RGIJN, I think I proved my point.

I´m sure Justin will be on (After his PM) here saying how he is feverishly working on Carrier Force but I think the opposite should be obvious to all.

I´m done.

(in reply to RGIJN)
Post #: 31
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/13/2009 6:44:27 PM   
Nomad


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I need to remember to be quiet.

< Message edited by Nomad -- 2/13/2009 7:32:32 PM >


_____________________________



Don't ask me any questions, apparently I know nothing about WitP:AE

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 32
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/13/2009 7:26:00 PM   
SuluSea


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Ike , I think it's clear for most to see your tone in this thread towards the developer is over the top.

I want Carrier Force as bad as the next person, I've asked for information in the forums and they weren't addressed, a month or so ago I PM'd one of the developers asking about info and have recieved no reply. I'm disapointed as well as the next person about the lack of info but there's a right way and wrong way to go about asking things.



_____________________________


”How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!” ~ Samuel Adams

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Post #: 33
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/13/2009 7:53:00 PM   
Ike99


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quote:

Ike , I think it's clear for most to see your tone in this thread towards the developer is over the top.

I want Carrier Force as bad as the next person, I've asked for information in the forums and they weren't addressed, a month or so ago I PM'd one of the developers asking about info and have recieved no reply. I'm disapointed as well as the next person about the lack of info but there's a right way and wrong way to go about asking things.


I´m not over the top. They´re over the top.

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 34
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/13/2009 10:30:11 PM   
Chad Harrison


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From: Boise, ID - USA
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Thats the first time I have ever had to use the green button . . .

For everyone else, I have been in contact with Joel and Justin and they are aware of this thread and that you are all looking for a status update of CF. With the NDA and all, this is obviously out of my power.

Thanks again for all your patience.

Hopefully we will be playing CF PBEM soon enough

Thanks

Chad

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 35
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/13/2009 11:01:44 PM   
Joe D.


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From: Stratford, Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ike99

I´m not over the top. They´re over the top.


Over the "flat" top?

Ike, I know your life isn't on hold waiting for this game, and not only have I been waiting for CF, but BftB as well.
Well, maybe next Xmas.

I've also had similar qualms re CF because it wasn't listed on the Matrix "In Development" section, but I was assured -- some time ago -- that it was (very) quietly being developed.

_____________________________

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"The Angel of Okinawa"

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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 36
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/13/2009 11:38:39 PM   
Ike99


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quote:

Chad Harrison-Thats the first time I have ever had to use the green button . . .


Congradulations.

However this address nothing of what I said and it does not excuse the lack of feedback and the disregard for the community.

These actions are not acceptable in any customer/provider relationship that I know of.

quote:

For everyone else, I have been in contact with Joel and Justin and they are aware of this thread and that you are all looking for a status update of CF. With the NDA and all, this is obviously out of my power.


uh huh...¨Joel¨

Like I said, without Gary or Joel this project is dead in the water. It´s like the Bismark spinning in a circle with a broken rudder never to reach port. They, or one of them will be the driving force behind Carrier Force if there is any.

We have seen what happened when this project was handed over from them to others 2 years ago.

quote:

Thanks again for all your patience.


Thanks Joel for finding out what the hell was going on with this project and getting it back on course.

Thanks for responding to the PM´s I have, and others have sent you. Thanks for participating on the Night Carrier bombing thread.

It lets us, as customers know you do not take our business/money for granted. I wish I could say the same about others but I can´t.

Without knowing either you or Gary was actively involved in this project I wouldn´t touch it given the example others have set around this project. I know where the talent is coming from.

quote:

Hopefully we will be playing CF PBEM soon enough.


Only if Joel or Gary is involved in it, otherwise I seriously doubt it.

quote:

Tankerace-Once CF enters the true beta stage, and we have a ballpark release date I will ask for CF forum to be created - but not before then.


From what you posted here, Carrier Force went from Alpha, to Alpha in 2 full years after Joel handed it over.

(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 37
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/14/2009 3:38:15 AM   
Ike99


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quote:

Over the "flat" top?

Ike, I know your life isn't on hold waiting for this game, and not only have I been waiting for CF, but BftB as well.
Well, maybe next Xmas.

I've also had similar qualms re CF because it wasn't listed on the Matrix "In Development" section, but I was assured -- some time ago -- that it was (very) quietly being developed.


Joe, you´re missing the point.

It´s not the fact that CF isn´t on the developers list or is delayed. It´s this total disregard of their very own thread for a year of CF and PM´s to them about the game. Their lack of participation here. That´s what the point is and why I have a problem and say it is vaporware and others are saying that privately.

What else can one think?!

If you go to the Battle of Britian/Bombing the Reich game you will see it is also delayed BUT, you will also see Hard_Sarge and the other developers on that forum keeping close ties with the community, making post, comments, taking questions,etc. Being active.

I can see the developers are commited to their project and it will be released and they´ll support it after release. I feel secure buying the game from what I am seeing from that team.

With Carrier Force, No.

I see nothing. I see a CF thread that hasn´t been touched in a year and more than one person, myself included who they did not reply to in PM. That they have not been active on here, at all.

I have no faith here and even if they do release something eventually with this attitude I seriously question the quality of the product we will see and what the support level will be after release.

Interesting Justin made this comment...

quote:

I point you to the Guns of August forum. I don't know how many "This is vaporware!" posts I've read in that forum, because that forum was around since it was in Alpha.


I went to that forum and what did I see? Third post down.

quote:

And Why will I not be BUYING this game ???? Because I can not get a simple answer to a question I posted before X-mass..........

Man........ Frank and Matrix tech support is really going down Hill FAST............:((

AP514



Sounds like what we are seeing here to me. I can see the pattern.

If a developer doesn´t support their product before release why would anyone seriously expect them to support it after release? If they get released at all.

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 38
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/14/2009 4:36:55 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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Hey Ike, I found your hooch:

http://www3.ocn.ne.jp/~mashiyu/


_____________________________

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Post #: 39
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/14/2009 4:58:58 AM   
borner


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Flat top?  good board game, but almost unplayable. God Bless computer tech!!!!

I also would love to see a CF update, and if some of the issues with UV ( my personal favorite is allied fighter strength, will be addresses)

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 40
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/14/2009 4:59:51 AM   
borner


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By the way.... Loved the tombstone IKE!!!  

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 41
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/14/2009 1:36:40 PM   
Joe D.


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From: Stratford, Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL:
... It´s not the fact that CF isn´t on the developers list or is delayed. It´s this total disregard of their very own thread for a year of CF and PM´s to them about the game. Their lack of participation here. That´s what the point is and why I have a problem and say it is vaporware and others are saying that privately.

What else can one think?!


That's been the problem w/the UV forum for some time; UV players are the neglected step-children of WitP.
I can' understand why someone from the CF development team doesn't post something; it only takes a minute or two.

"Tankerace-Once CF enters the true beta stage, and we have a ballpark release date I will ask for CF forum to be created - but not before then."

I work PT in product development testing IR spectrophotometry equip; we always have a beta stage after the alpha, but what exactly is a "true beta stage"? You're either there, or you're not.

I recall Todd was beta-testing CF two years ago, and some posters had "CF beta tester" on their avatars, but I haven't seen anything like that lately.

Well, everything comes to he who waits; we've certainly done that.

_____________________________

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"The Angel of Okinawa"

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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 42
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/14/2009 3:51:35 PM   
borner


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it's sad about UV, but I can see how Matrix thinks it's good business.... people buy UV, learn and like the game, then see how much more popular WiTP is, buy that, then plan to buy the AE expansion. Sad thing is some of the fixes are very easy, and on the other hand, UV still has bugs that need addressed. I would not hold your breath for anything to get fixes though, after all, CF is supposed to address all of these worries!!

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 43
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/14/2009 4:08:17 PM   
Joe D.


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From: Stratford, Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

... Sad thing is some of the fixes are very easy, and on the other hand, UV still has bugs that need addressed. I would not hold your breath for anything to get fixes though, after all, CF is supposed to address all of these worries!!


We've joked that the next patch for UV is CF!


_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 44
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/14/2009 5:25:52 PM   
borner


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I honestly think that is the case..... just a patch you have to pay $59.99 for 

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Post #: 45
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/14/2009 5:33:53 PM   
Ike99


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quote:

I honestly think that is the case..... just a patch you have to pay $59.99 for


The fact that none of the developers have been on here yet to explain themselves tell me all I need to know about Carrier Farce and the commitment level to it.


(in reply to borner)
Post #: 46
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/16/2009 3:52:27 PM   
Tankerace


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Sorry for the delay guys, I've been busy.

No, I will not say I've been "feverishly" working on CF. At the same time I do this game, I am also working on my master's degree and for the past few months I got bogged down in real life activities.

In addition, the pace of development has slowed to add some much needed features. For one thing, instead of a UV style scenario editor and system, I am having Mike put in one more like WitP, in addition to all of the new things CF needs for the new system. This has taken longer than anyone, especially me, has expected. CF could probably have sufficed with the old UV editor, refitted with the stuff for the CF changes, but my attitude is if newer, better, and more user-friendly stuff is out there, why not use it?

I'm just as frustrated as you guys the project has taken so long. I had hoped to have it out over the summer last year, but it wasn't meant to be. What I can say though is part of the delay is my refusal to give you guys what amounts to "just a patch." Hell, ask Joel Billings. When I did WPO I was the same way, to the point he needed to remind me to beware of feature creep. If we were going to just slap the new stuff on UV and toss it out the door, you'd have had it by now.

And Ike, as to your offer for a save, I still have it in my inbox. The reason I didn't reply is that is precisely when I got bogged down having to read three 500 page books a week for my Master's program. It's not an excuse, and I understand how it appears to you guys.

That's where it stands now. The project is not dead, and it is moving. Slowly I'll grant you, but it is moving. I'm not Even going to both giving estimates about when it'll be finished. But I will remind you that of all the people most closely involved with the project only Mike Wood does this as his primary job. We are all committed to the project, but our personal lives or other jobs do sometimes conflict with the project. Not probably the answer you wanted to hear, but I'm not going to give you a bs line of "we're feverishly working! Adding New Hotness (nudge to MOH:PA) Coming Soon! Blah blah blah". I'm just giving you guys the truth, which is what you deserve.

What I can say is thanks to a restructured course load from now on (the first semester is always a pain), I am no longer really encumbered by the MA program now, and can once again devote a significant amount of my time to the project. Pace should pick up a bit, but I'm also not going to lie and tell you that it's "going to get done quickly and finished soon!" or any crap like that. I can only tell you what I know.

_____________________________


Designer of War Plan Orange
Producer of Carrier Force
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition

Avatar is of me with my 1918/1967 FTR Ishapore Sht LE Mk III*.

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 47
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/16/2009 3:57:45 PM   
Chad Harrison


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Thanks for taking the time to post this Justin. Good to see you back

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 48
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/16/2009 4:07:20 PM   
flipperwasirish


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Tankerace,

Thanks for the update.

Have a nice day



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Flipper

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Post #: 49
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/16/2009 5:34:35 PM   
RGIJN


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A bit late, but finally it´s out now. Nothing more or less I intended to see. Just a quick overview, say an update what´s up with CF.
Though I truly understand the probably diverse reasons that retarded the progress of development, it´s hard to see why you didn´t post earlier. It could have taken you less words + time and most probably could have prevented this issue (thread).

Anyway, Thank you for your comment Tankerace!

Will keep "monitoring" the status of Carrier Force...

(in reply to flipperwasirish)
Post #: 50
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/16/2009 6:49:24 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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As posted in the other thread, Ike99 has been given a two week ban from the forum. After two weeks, Ike99 can e-mail me to be reinstated.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 51
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/16/2009 9:36:57 PM   
Chad Harrison


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

As posted in the other thread, Ike99 has been given a two week ban from the forum. After two weeks, Ike99 can e-mail me to be reinstated.


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But that can be taken too far . . .

Thank you Erik for clearing the air in here for two weeks . . .

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 52
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/17/2009 3:28:25 AM   
borner


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Erik

You want to ban Ike for his attitude, fine. There are rules in any debate. However, I think his "pictures" were pretty accurate. CF does seem to many of us to be a dead project. In the past, a reply I received about UV bugs was that UV had run it's course, and CF woudl address these. My question is as a paying customer, if CF is not going forward at a reasonable rate, when can I and many others expect a patch to address some of the bugs in the game?

(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 53
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/17/2009 5:11:22 AM   
flipperwasirish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

Erik

You want to ban Ike for his attitude, fine. There are rules in any debate. However, I think his "pictures" were pretty accurate. CF does seem to many of us to be a dead project. In the past, a reply I received about UV bugs was that UV had run it's course, and CF woudl address these. My question is as a paying customer, if CF is not going forward at a reasonable rate, when can I and many others expect a patch to address some of the bugs in the game?

Borner,

First, I agree, I think it would have been nice if at least every few months Tankerace had stopped by and said "hi, or something". Today he posted a thread regarding what he has been doing with his time the last year. He also made clear he wasn’t making excuses. I accept and understand what he meant.

We can’t see the details at present but Tankerace did say Carrier Force is moving forward (albeit slowly). I assumed this, but at least the people who believed it was dead now know it isn’t and hopefully less whining will be the result. I can hope.

IMO, the "blank pictures" thread was a very immature way to WHINE. Tankerace started a thread asking for ideas that may or may not be included in CF. Many people put forth ideas. That people whine about not receiving feedback on them is one thing. Also, people can have a desire for a constant back-and-forth flow of information, but to expect it is asking to be disappointed more often that not.

But being rude, trashing or making personal attacks towards Matrix, 2*3, or the people that work for them is unacceptable (and also is against the rules of this forum) and has no positive benefit. If I understand Erik correctly (?) this is why Ike was suspended for a couple of weeks.

My opinion is there will not be another patch for UV, but miracles happen.

Be well,

_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 54
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/17/2009 9:00:10 AM   
SuluSea


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Sorry for the delay guys, I've been busy.

No, I will not say I've been "feverishly" working on CF. At the same time I do this game, I am also working on my master's degree and for the past few months I got bogged down in real life activities.

In addition, the pace of development has slowed to add some much needed features. For one thing, instead of a UV style scenario editor and system, I am having Mike put in one more like WitP, in addition to all of the new things CF needs for the new system. This has taken longer than anyone, especially me, has expected. CF could probably have sufficed with the old UV editor, refitted with the stuff for the CF changes, but my attitude is if newer, better, and more user-friendly stuff is out there, why not use it?

I'm just as frustrated as you guys the project has taken so long. I had hoped to have it out over the summer last year, but it wasn't meant to be. What I can say though is part of the delay is my refusal to give you guys what amounts to "just a patch." Hell, ask Joel Billings. When I did WPO I was the same way, to the point he needed to remind me to beware of feature creep. If we were going to just slap the new stuff on UV and toss it out the door, you'd have had it by now.

And Ike, as to your offer for a save, I still have it in my inbox. The reason I didn't reply is that is precisely when I got bogged down having to read three 500 page books a week for my Master's program. It's not an excuse, and I understand how it appears to you guys.

That's where it stands now. The project is not dead, and it is moving. Slowly I'll grant you, but it is moving. I'm not Even going to both giving estimates about when it'll be finished. But I will remind you that of all the people most closely involved with the project only Mike Wood does this as his primary job. We are all committed to the project, but our personal lives or other jobs do sometimes conflict with the project. Not probably the answer you wanted to hear, but I'm not going to give you a bs line of "we're feverishly working! Adding New Hotness (nudge to MOH:PA) Coming Soon! Blah blah blah". I'm just giving you guys the truth, which is what you deserve.

What I can say is thanks to a restructured course load from now on (the first semester is always a pain), I am no longer really encumbered by the MA program now, and can once again devote a significant amount of my time to the project. Pace should pick up a bit, but I'm also not going to lie and tell you that it's "going to get done quickly and finished soon!" or any crap like that. I can only tell you what I know.



Great news , thanks for the update Justin!!! It's great to read you're pushing the envelope instead of settling for putting some lipstick on UV and I'm most definately looking forward to CF no matter how long it takes.


_____________________________


”How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!” ~ Samuel Adams

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 55
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/17/2009 9:16:18 AM   
RGIJN


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quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

Erik

In the past, a reply I received about UV bugs was that UV had run it's course, and CF woudl address these. My question is as a paying customer, if CF is not going forward at a reasonable rate, when can I and many others expect a patch to address some of the bugs in the game?


I agree. And since I am encountering more and more bugs in my game with Frank (Fuelli) which is runnig deep into late 1943 now already, I certainly want to join borner with his request for another patch...

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 56
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/17/2009 9:43:27 AM   
xj900uk

 

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Agreed. Another patch for UV would certainly be welcome and is long overdue. It's soo frustrating at times when the game just defeats you, does something unbelievably daft or holds you up!

(in reply to RGIJN)
Post #: 57
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/17/2009 11:51:48 AM   
tocaff


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The loading bug, that I couldn't work around late in the game, caused me to take the plunge into WITP and I'm glad I did.  I'm looking forward to AE and CF has less appeal to me than it did when it was 1st announced.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forum/tm.asp?m=2080768

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Post #: 58
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/17/2009 1:54:35 PM   
Chad Harrison


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From: Boise, ID - USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

My opinion is there will not be another patch for UV, but miracles happen.



That is my impression. This is by no means an official statement, but if you are waiting for a UV patch, I think you will be disappointed. Games, no matter how popular or how big the user base is, can only be supported for so long. 2by3 has long since moved on and I think CF is the only work being done with UV or its code.

Again, this is *NOT* an official statement or anything of that matter.

But, as Justin said above, CF is moving forward and will be the closest thing to a patch UV will see.

(in reply to flipperwasirish)
Post #: 59
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/17/2009 5:16:41 PM   
flipperwasirish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison


quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

My opinion is there will not be another patch for UV, but miracles happen.



That is my impression. This is by no means an official statement, but if you are waiting for a UV patch, I think you will be disappointed. Games, no matter how popular or how big the user base is, can only be supported for so long. 2by3 has long since moved on and I think CF is the only work being done with UV or its code.

Again, this is *NOT* an official statement or anything of that matter.

But, as Justin said above, CF is moving forward and will be the closest thing to a patch UV will see.


Seriously, the impression I got from Justin's post was that CF will be much more than a "patch" to UV. To me, this is much better than just "patching" UV and I look forward to it. As I know I will need something lighter than WITP-AE which when released may fry my mind...

_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to Chad Harrison)
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