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TFs stalling en route...

 
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TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 3:21:37 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		This seems to regularly happen to me, and it doesn't appear to matter whether the destination is friendly or enemy. What is going on is that transport TFs stall three hexes away from their destination and refuse to continue - unless I give them a new destination that is not the base they were originally scheduled to visit.

It is becoming irritating as it is now making my invasions much more of a touch and go situation... will the troops be delivered on time? Can the TFs get unloaded before the enemy carriers show up?

I know that this problem was discussed a long time ago among us WITP veterans, but - of course - the search function failed me. What do people do to prevent this? Has this been identified well enough to have been fixed in AE?


Okay... frustration aside, I need to give the pertinent information.

It's CHS 2.08, scen 159. WITP v1.806. Allies PBEM. We're now in Jan '44.

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 2/8/2009 4:38:49 AM >

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RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 5:07:55 AM   
bilbow


Posts: 718
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Concord NH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

This seems to regularly happen to me, and it doesn't appear to matter whether the destination is friendly or enemy. What is going on is that transport TFs stall three hexes away from their destination and refuse to continue - unless I give them a new destination that is not the base they were originally scheduled to visit.

It is becoming irritating as it is now making my invasions much more of a touch and go situation... will the troops be delivered on time? Can the TFs get unloaded before the enemy carriers show up?

I know that this problem was discussed a long time ago among us WITP veterans, but - of course - the search function failed me. What do people do to prevent this? Has this been identified well enough to have been fixed in AE?


Okay... frustration aside, I need to give the pertinent information.

It's CHS 2.08, scen 159. WITP v1.806. Allies PBEM. We're now in Jan '44.


I've seen this at times with invasion TFs including those with an agressive admiral. Try having them follow a surface TF. Relative speed can be tricky, but they won't hesitate to follow, and will unload fine in the target hex.


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RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 5:24:10 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 4763
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		I have had this happen twice in my current game, both times with Bombardment TFs commanded by pretty aggressive admirals. They'd just stall about 10 hexes short of the target, then retire to home port. I guess I can work around it by making the mission surface combat (with Patrol/Do Not Retire) initially, then changing to bombardment. Maybe that's how I'm supposed to do it?

Haven't seen it happen with anything other than a Bombardment TF, though.

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RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 6:30:19 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		For me it is transport TFs. This has happened when sending troops to one of my own bases, as well as sending them to an invasion site. This time it is a supply convoy, going to a new forward base (Chez never grabbed Makin Island, so I'm taking it to isolate Tarawa).

The reason that I haven't, so far, had my troop and supply TFs follow a SCTF is that they can't keep up - so that will force me to either split the LRCAP or leave the SCTF uncovered. That bit my butt in my last invasion, where the Nevada was sunk by Bettys at Derby. The bombardment TF had gotten ahead of the invasion fleet and was left uncovered.


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RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 12:10:31 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22515
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		A couple of problems can occur:
1) the admiral can get cold feet in crossing through dangerous areas... solution as above (get a more aggressive admiral.)

2) The TF perceives it is running out of fuel... this can be because the Home Port for the TF is some distance away (i.e. - moving a TF from Seattle to Melbourne, the AI will decide it is running low on fuel sometimes.)
Solution: change the TF home port to somewhere close to where the TF is currently located, or make the home port the same as the destination (in the case of transport TFs - the TF will return to it's home port when it is low on fuel).

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RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 3:15:05 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Rob, I can see #1 as being a possible explanation, but #2 is a no go with me. I have a personal habit of setting a nearby base as the home port for almost TF.

These TFs are not returning to base, but rather stalling and sitting - three hexes away from their destination.


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Brad

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RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 7:42:22 PM   
Lomri

 

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I had this happen to me with an invasion TF going for Nauru (just want to own it to base patrol planes on).  I sent the TF from Tarawa (with Tarawa as the home base) and it stalled turn after turn half way (3 hexes).  J owns Kwajalein and rest of Marshalls.

I got around the problem by sending the TF south of Nauru, then north again to take it.  This worked.  I figured it was some cold-feet on the TF commander based on Betty range, and coming from the south meant less time in range, or something. 

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RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 8:53:01 PM   
rtrapasso


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Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Rob, I can see #1 as being a possible explanation, but #2 is a no go with me. I have a personal habit of setting a nearby base as the home port for almost TF.

These TFs are not returning to base, but rather stalling and sitting - three hexes away from their destination.


Hmmm... can you post some screen shots? (both the "board" and a shot of the TF would be nice.)

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Post #: 8
RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 10:00:26 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Apparently not, Rob... I lost my screen shot assistant some months ago when my computer got wiped by a nasty virus. That's one of the programs that I couldn't salvage - and I just tried to but couldn't get the new version to work. I'm only slightly computer savvy, you see...

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RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 10:11:09 PM   
Lomri

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline
If this helps: in the game hit your print screen key.  Hit the window key or alt-tab to get out of the game.  Start->Programs and look for "Paint" (for me start->programs->Accessories->Paint) and click on the new window and hit control-V, or File->paste.  You should get the screen shot. 

Hope that helps.

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Post #: 10
RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 10:24:14 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Thank you, Lomri... I'm working on it now.

I have to edit out a lot of stuff as this is an ongoing PBEM.


EDIT: Here is the TF on Jan 17, '44






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 2/8/2009 10:36:15 PM >

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 11
RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 10:37:54 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Here are her orders. I do notice that there is a SLDR in command of the TF/DE?






Attachment (1)

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 12
RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 10:39:26 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		And here is the same TF the following day, Jan 18 '44. No movement had occurred.








Attachment (1)

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 13
RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 11:01:28 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22515
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		OK - 2 problems noted:
1 - As noted, a SLDR is commanding the TF - probably has a very low Naval rating. Best to replace this guy when you can.

2. You have "retirement allowed" operational - that means that if things get rough, the convoy stops, or even runs away. Check off "do not retire" instead and the convoy should keep moving.

Also, you COULD try to change the home port to Makin - this might get the unit to move better as well (units will supposedly move faster returning to home port), however, when the unit arrives it will generally not start to unload.

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Post #: 14
RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 11:08:48 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3431
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline 		No fair!!! I want to see all of the screenshot!!!

Guess it doesn't matter... My Bettys know where the carriers are... those that lived to return anyways!

Chez


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Thank you, Lomri... I'm working on it now.

I have to edit out a lot of stuff as this is an ongoing PBEM.


EDIT: Here is the TF on Jan 17, '44








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Post #: 15
RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 11:20:13 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		That is, those Bettys that lived to return! My carriers are doing fine so far! 

"2. You have "retirement allowed" operational - that means that if things get rough, the convoy stops, or even runs away. Check off "do not retire" instead and the convoy should keep moving. "

Of course, all the troop convoys that have already reached Makin were set to "retirement allowed", so this is apparently a very selective situation.


< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 2/8/2009 11:21:04 PM >

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 16
RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/8/2009 11:34:40 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22515
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

That is, those Bettys that lived to return! My carriers are doing fine so far! 

"2. You have "retirement allowed" operational - that means that if things get rough, the convoy stops, or even runs away. Check off "do not retire" instead and the convoy should keep moving. "

Of course, all the troop convoys that have already reached Makin were set to "retirement allowed", so this is apparently a very selective situation.


The Commanding Officer of the TF makes the decision... in this case, you have a pilot in command of the TF, so this may be the difference (he probably isn't really competent to command a naval TF).

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Post #: 17
RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/9/2009 12:17:33 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		But that isn't a common thread with this TF that was stalled about a week ago on the way to Derby.

What is common is the distance from destination... and "retirement allowed" orders - which are also common with TFs that actually reached their destination as ordered.




Attachment (1)

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 18
RE: TFs stalling en route... - 2/9/2009 12:48:06 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22515
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

But that isn't a common thread with this TF that was stalled about a week ago on the way to Derby.

What is common is the distance from destination... and "retirement allowed" orders - which are also common with TFs that actually reached their destination as ordered.




There are a BUNCH die rolls made in all these go/no go decisions... even a TF with a superior commander can fail in these die rolls, and so may not move, however, the worse the commander the chances of a bad result increase.

Get rid of the "retirement allowed" and if there is a continued problem, we can examine more solutions, but i think the problem will go away.

RARELY a commander will override orders (i.e. - the infamous examples people have where Halsey will react even though "DO NOT REACT" is selected for a Carrier TF) - but this should be pretty durned rare for a regular supply TF.

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