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Extended level bombers off small airfield: design intent?

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Extended level bombers off small airfield: design intent? Page: [1]
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Extended level bombers off small airfield: design intent? - 1/26/2009 5:40:48 AM   
rader


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Hi all,

My PBEM partner and I are playing a CHS 160 game and we're having a minor disagreement and are looking for advice. Specifically I'm looking for people who are "in the know" - designers/developers/playtesters of the original WiTP and AE.

I know the manual is wrong in some (many?) places, but this took me completely by surprise after a long time of playing several games. I was specifically counting hexes and airbase sizes to determine where the 4E bombers could reach. I thought that 4E bombers (load = 6800) could not fly extended range off level 4 airbases and would fly as if extended up to their normal range. This is specifically what the manual says (yes, it is often wrong) and I think it may be the intent of the designers, but is sort of a "bug", or something that had been overlooked. I look at many of the innacuracies in the manual as changes. So I was basing a large degree of my strategy around this (staying 11+ hexes away from as many SPS 1 airfields as possible). My opponent knew that the 4Es would still fly at extended range.

We have house ruled 4Es to a large extent: no naval attack under 15,000 ft etc. If I had known that level bombers could fly off a small airfield to their extended range, I probably would have suggested a house rule against this (and at a minimum played differently). Of course, my opponent would have played differently if we had restricted level bombers in this way.

So my question really comes down to intent. What do the designers/developers/playtesters intend? Are level bombers supposed to be able to fly to their extended range from a small airfield? How is this handled in AE? Is this basically an error/bug that has never been corrected for whatever reason, or is it intentional that the bombers should be able to fly at full range and just wrong in the manual? Was it changed in a patch or update one way or the other?

Thanks!

Rader
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RE: Extended level bombers off small airfield: design i... - 1/26/2009 6:21:06 AM   
Japan


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I imagine that  the problem with flying at long range from a small airfield would be the Gross Weight of the Aircraft on Departure.
If filled with Fuel and also having bombs the Gross Weight may be so large that a longer runway is required for the departure.

In the game im playing in, we have a House rule saying max 11 hexes range from level 5 Airfields and no limits from level 6 and above.

It works pritty good for us I think.

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RE: Extended level bombers off small airfield: design i... - 1/26/2009 7:33:39 AM   
Howard Mitchell


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I think this has always been there. Japan's post gives the rationale for it very well.

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RE: Extended level bombers off small airfield: design i... - 1/26/2009 7:40:53 AM   
rader


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No, my point is that it *is not there*. I agree that it *should* be there, but apparently it is not. Try it yourself - apparently level bombers WILL fly at extended range off a small airbase. My question is whether this is intentional (and just wrong in the manual), or a programming error/bug?

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RE: Extended level bombers off small airfield: design i... - 1/26/2009 12:19:40 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

No, my point is that it *is not there*. I agree that it *should* be there, but apparently it is not. Try it yourself - apparently level bombers WILL fly at extended range off a small airbase. My question is whether this is intentional (and just wrong in the manual), or a programming error/bug?


Intentional. Cant for the life of me figure out why, but it is.

(in reply to rader)
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RE: Extended level bombers off small airfield: design i... - 1/26/2009 2:28:51 PM   
rader


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger


quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

No, my point is that it *is not there*. I agree that it *should* be there, but apparently it is not. Try it yourself - apparently level bombers WILL fly at extended range off a small airbase. My question is whether this is intentional (and just wrong in the manual), or a programming error/bug?


Intentional. Cant for the life of me figure out why, but it is.


So it is staying in AE? Is this the way you play it? Do many people house rule it or just leave it? Do you know if there is a double penalty for ops losses, etc? (extended and small runway)?

< Message edited by rader -- 1/26/2009 2:29:50 PM >

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RE: Extended level bombers off small airfield: design i... - 1/26/2009 4:14:42 PM   
USS America


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What bomb load to they carry at extended range from a lvl 4 AF?  I would guess the bomb load should be cut in half for extended range, and cut in half again (1/4) for the small AF.  Not saying that's how it works in the game, just that I think it "should" work that way. 

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RE: Extended level bombers off small airfield: design i... - 1/26/2009 4:22:56 PM   
rader


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Well, if they got a quarter bombload, plus they get triple ops losses (for small airfield AND extended range), I wouldn't really have a problem with it. Does anyone know if this is how it works?

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RE: Extended level bombers off small airfield: design i... - 1/26/2009 4:22:56 PM   
tanksone


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From: St Paul, Mn.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger


quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

No, my point is that it *is not there*. I agree that it *should* be there, but apparently it is not. Try it yourself - apparently level bombers WILL fly at extended range off a small airbase. My question is whether this is intentional (and just wrong in the manual), or a programming error/bug?


Intentional. Cant for the life of me figure out why, but it is.


So it is staying in AE? Is this the way you play it? Do many people house rule it or just leave it? Do you know if there is a double penalty for ops losses, etc? (extended and small runway)?




Hi, don't the op loses start to go up from smaller bases also....



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RE: Extended level bombers off small airfield: design i... - 1/26/2009 5:13:31 PM   
dhuffjr2

 

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Small island airfields were used to stage bombers for attacks on Tarawa for one. I can't remember the island in question off the top of my head.

How does this impact the conversation?


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