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RE: Maximum Football 3.0?

 
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RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/11/2009 3:00:17 AM   
long_time_fan

 

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The Canadian rules are all that interest me!  (Can't please everyone all the time I guess)
LTF

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Post #: 61
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/11/2009 5:28:47 AM   
Mykal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucas718

No way am I buying a CFL game.  

nothing wrong with the CFL man (only pullin' ya' chain)
I'm with LTF, thats why I bought this title for Canadian rules football
having a version/new game aimed directly at the CFL wont bother me

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Post #: 62
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/11/2009 8:33:01 PM   
mudrick

 

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Here we go again.  People finding the need to say what features won't bother them if left out.  Sort of reminds me of the head to head issue.  People find the need to voice the fact that they do not need H2H based on the fact they won't use it anyway.  Who cares?  I know I don't care. 

The Developer already knows there are CFL fans, NFL, pee wee, indoor, ect.......it all depends on how much he wants to extend his base.  The Dev already knows he is going to lose people with just CFL, or just NFL, or any other feature not included required by some people.  I'm sure if all of the fields were pink and had little kittens for enzone art, you'd still find someone that says....."It's ok with me".  It would be ok with me if the players were X's and O's but I won't be the one losing money on it and there is no point in me saying it.

I don't know.  It just makes no sense to me.  I always figured people would voice opinions to promote features.  I've been through this with other games and still cannot figure it out.

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Post #: 63
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/11/2009 10:21:05 PM   
DAWUSS

 

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MFB introduced me to Canadian Ball (much like NFL QB Club 2001 got me into football in general), so I could go for a CFL game.

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Post #: 64
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/12/2009 2:04:41 AM   
Mykal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mudrick

Here we go again.  People finding the need to say what features won't bother them if left out.  Sort of reminds me of the head to head issue.  People find the need to voice the fact that they do not need H2H based on the fact they won't use it anyway.  Who cares?  I know I don't care. 

The Developer already knows there are CFL fans, NFL, pee wee, indoor, ect.......it all depends on how much he wants to extend his base.  The Dev already knows he is going to lose people with just CFL, or just NFL, or any other feature not included required by some people.  I'm sure if all of the fields were pink and had little kittens for enzone art, you'd still find someone that says....."It's ok with me".  It would be ok with me if the players were X's and O's but I won't be the one losing money on it and there is no point in me saying it.

I don't know.  It just makes no sense to me.  I always figured people would voice opinions to promote features.  I've been through this with other games and still cannot figure it out.


Hey man, dont slate me
so I like CFL........... my choice right?
there's still 2.2 for other brands of football or even madden if you wish
and still the possibilty that David would advance the new version to cover NFL and such
absolutely no need to be rude just because some of us are happy to accept whats offered...... and your not.


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Post #: 65
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/12/2009 3:34:43 AM   
Marauders

 

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The point mudrick is making is that Maximum Football 3.0 being Canadian football only will be less than maximum.  There is no knock on Canadian or CFL football; it is just a point about losing features.

I think the CFL is great.  It is an open type of ball that I enjoy.  I do think that the market for any Canadian football game will be relatively small compared to the potential three-rules Maximum Football market.

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Post #: 66
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/12/2009 3:53:37 AM   
Mykal


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Oh yer........ I agree totally
moving to only CFL will narrow its market, I know that

But to re-affirm my point "No need to be rude"
is in referance to the " Kitten endzones and pink field"
plus to add to my post :

I'm happy to take whats offered, any "Voicing of opinion to promote features"
as is stated, is obviously a waste of time
isnt it apparent that one of the reasons David is doing this project away from the community
is perhaps because he wants to do it his way........ not ours

So why not just adopt an attitude of....... What it is...... is .......... What it is
and be happy with it, lets be realistic.......... its just a video game
no one punched my wife in the face....... so why stress.

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Post #: 67
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/12/2009 8:28:45 AM   
Tullius

 

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Now we have the next communication deasaster. It is now born the rumor that MF 3.0 will be a CFL based game.

I would wish that everybody would have a little understanding of programming. It seems that DW takes a new approach. He develops a canadian version first but you need to consider that he needs a starting point and nobody can not do more than one thing at once (i know some believe they can do it). So he has to choose a rule set. When a rule set is finished you can port the code to the other similar sets. You have now a sound basis and the further development will be much faster. But we do not speak here about different games it is one development process which has different parts.

It would even make sense (imo) to release a canadian part before the american part is ready because you will some feedback and can improve the product.

As long as David Winter has not stated that MF will at first a CFL game all other considerations are not more than reading tea leaves.



< Message edited by Tullius -- 1/12/2009 4:24:00 PM >


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Post #: 68
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/12/2009 4:11:52 PM   
Mykal


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I agree, infact I already made that point


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mykal

Hey man, dont slate me
so I like CFL........... my choice right?
there's still 2.2 for other brands of football or even madden if you wish
and still the possibilty that David would advance the new version to cover NFL and such
absolutely no need to be rude just because some of us are happy to accept whats offered...... and your not.




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Post #: 69
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/12/2009 5:17:21 PM   
Marauders

 

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quote:

Tullius stated: Now we have the next communication disaster. It is now born the rumor that MF 3.0 will be a CFL based game.


I wouldn't call it a disaster; it's just a statement of information David has provided. It is not a good idea to have FBPro and Maximum Football fans believe that Maximum Football 3.0 is being worked on as a three rules Canadian, American, and Indoor football game game at this time. In time, all three may be released as different games, but only the Canadian rules game will be worked on to start.

quote:

I would wish that everybody would have a little understanding of programming. It seems that DW takes a new approach. He develops a canadian version first but you need to consider that he needs a starting point and nobody can not do more than one thing at once (i know some believe they can do it). So he has to choose a rule set. When a rule set is finished you can port the code to the other similar sets. You have now a sound basis and the further development will be much faster. But we do not speak here about different games it is one development process which has different parts.


That is correct. David is looking to do a Canadian based game first and then port the main code to a stand alone American rules game and perhaps an indoor game as well. Each game would be released on their own, and each one would be priced at less than Maximum Football is now.

quote:

As long as David Winter has not stated that MF will at first a CFL game all other considerations are not more than reading tea leaves.


David has stated such, but he has not stated so in public.

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Post #: 70
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/13/2009 4:37:15 AM   
mudrick

 

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I wasn't trying to be rude.  I meant what I said.  If he were making it NFL first, I would not come on and say, "NFL first is fine with me".  Why?  Because I know no one cares.  It is a pointless statement.  No diff. than the pink field Kitten example. There will always be someone that is ok with less.

< Message edited by mudrick -- 1/13/2009 4:38:21 AM >

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Post #: 71
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/14/2009 4:49:31 PM   
regenerator

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders
I hope we are not losing the sandbox and being left with the tractor tire.


I don't get your metaphor. Is this game-related (hopefully), or related to this minor war of words going on here in this post?
Post #: 72
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/14/2009 6:01:27 PM   
redwolf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: regenerator


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders
I hope we are not losing the sandbox and being left with the tractor tire.


I don't get your metaphor. Is this game-related (hopefully), or related to this minor war of words going on here in this post?



sandbox = the ability to create a league how we want it (different rule sites, different sizes, etc).

tractor tire = a dud.

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Post #: 73
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/14/2009 7:12:21 PM   
Marauders

 

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quote:

sandbox = the ability to create a league how we want it (different rule sites, different sizes, etc).

tractor tire = a dud.


Michael, that's about it.

One of the things that separates Maximum Football from the other games out there is the ability to use three rulesets and even create one's own type of ruleset.  It is a sandbox of feaures.

If Maximum Football loses that, will it be any better than the other games out there in what it does?  Will the graphics be better; will the gameplay be better, or will it be not quite up to what the other games will offer?  We don't know.

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Post #: 74
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/14/2009 8:08:41 PM   
Tullius

 

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quote:

If Maximum Football loses that, will it be any better than the other games out there in what it does?


The answer depends on your style of play and your commitment.

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Post #: 75
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/14/2009 11:43:01 PM   
garysorrell


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I have to agree with both Mykal and Rhino on this one. Not sure why we need be so touchy about rolling eyes. Go search for posts from GreatWhite...my God, that was tolerated and eyerolls get a bad rap?

I think what we are all seeing is the death of a game we wanted to be something great. I know some of us will still play it for years to come, some may even go buy whatever David is making now. But the grand experiment that was Maximum football is being kept alive by a very small group of people. People like Mykal. People who dont talk about add-ons or charging for content.

It is NOT being kept alive by moderators, or the guy that developed it in the first place. I spend more time on these forums, reading and posting, than I do playing the game. I just started the WCFL, and we arent even in week 1 and the Remote In system is looking like its still hosed. Just a frustrating situation. Im not even sure why I come here anymore.
Really, the only reason I do come here is to chat with Mykal, look for Hacks playbooks, see what Dreamteams is up to, and commune with other forum members.

I purchased MaxFB on nearly Day 1, and have dedicated a lot of free time to making junk for the game, in hopes it would encourage people to buy it, and help increase their enjoyment. But at this point, im pretty much done.

David is back, sort of, getting everyone stirred up over some new football game. No way! Fix the freakin one we have all spent hard earned cash, and countless hours supporting. Why not secretly patch MaxFB 2.2.90? We all know it is a pain, it's a lot of work for little or no return....we understand. But we are left with a game that has sim league features, yet it doesnt really work. An AI that doesnt know when to call a timeout. And so on, and so on.

Word of mouth is important, I think, especially in a small niche community like ours.

Post #: 76
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/15/2009 12:23:16 AM   
Yngvai


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quote:

! Fix the freakin one we have all spent hard earned cash, and countless hours supporting.


I agree.

I've been waiting for years for an adequate FBPRO replacement. Max FB certainly had the potential to be that. I would've paid money for new updates as long as the game kept being improved. It's sad to see it abandoned.

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Post #: 77
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/15/2009 12:33:03 AM   
Yngvai


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It's too bad there wasn't a big open source football project that a bunch of people would work on. Just like with Mozilla Firefox or OpenOffice.....you could have OpenFootball or something like that.

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Post #: 78
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/15/2009 3:16:46 AM   
Lucas718

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: garysorrell

I think what we are all seeing is the death of a game we wanted to be something great. I know some of us will still play it for years to come, some may even go buy whatever David is making now. But the grand experiment that was Maximum football is being kept alive by a very small group of people. People like Mykal. People who dont talk about add-ons or charging for content.

It is NOT being kept alive by moderators, or the guy that developed it in the first place. I spend more time on these forums, reading and posting, than I do playing the game. I just started the WCFL, and we arent even in week 1 and the Remote In system is looking like its still hosed. Just a frustrating situation. Im not even sure why I come here anymore.
Really, the only reason I do come here is to chat with Mykal, look for Hacks playbooks, see what Dreamteams is up to, and commune with other forum members.

I purchased MaxFB on nearly Day 1, and have dedicated a lot of free time to making junk for the game, in hopes it would encourage people to buy it, and help increase their enjoyment. But at this point, im pretty much done.

David is back, sort of, getting everyone stirred up over some new football game. No way! Fix the freakin one we have all spent hard earned cash, and countless hours supporting. Why not secretly patch MaxFB 2.2.90? We all know it is a pain, it's a lot of work for little or no return....we understand. But we are left with a game that has sim league features, yet it doesnt really work. An AI that doesnt know when to call a timeout. And so on, and so on.

Word of mouth is important, I think, especially in a small niche community like ours.




I completely agree. David abandoned this game, leaving it with a lot of problems that it seems will never be fixed. This is how he thanks his loyal customers?

Max-FB is a long running joke in some corners of the web. No matter how good this next game turns out to be, David will never win over the folks who have been mocking this game and David's actions over the past few years. Now David has ticked off a pretty good portion of his customer base too, so I'm wondering just who he thinks is going to buy his new game.

Based on the features he added that don't really work right, I'm wondering if he even has the ability to correct the problems in this game and make them right in the next one. You can't tell me anyone who bought Max-FB was able to set up a draft and make it work properly on the first try. That's bad programming on David's part.

In the next game is he going to be able to program good football sense into the AI? Will a team no longer punt the ball on 4th down when they're trailing late in the game? Will David be able to program the AI to go for the TD instead of kicking a FG late in the game when the team is down by more than 3 points? Why couldn't he figure out how to make onside kicks work? These are just a few things off the top of my head. I'm sure I could come up with a lot more if I really put some thought into it. But I won't because it just isn't worth the hassle anymore.

Maybe I'm still ticked at the way he disappeared from the board and felt he no longer needed to fix the glaring problems with the game. I could understand it if he was burned out as we were led to believe, but he just went ahead and started working on another football game. That doesn't really support the burnout excuse. Max-FB didn't sell well and I just can't see how David thinks anyone is going to buy this new game.

So since this will likely be my last post here, I just want to say good luck to any of you who stick it out and start over with the new game if/when it gets released.

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Post #: 79
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/15/2009 3:28:38 AM   
Mykal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucas718

So since this will likely be my last post here, I just want to say good luck to any of you who stick it out and start over with the new game if/when it gets released.

well that aint good
In a slowly disappearing community we need all we can get
but........ respect and see you around Buddy

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RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/15/2009 4:04:29 AM   
micvik

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucas718

Maybe I'm still ticked at the way he disappeared from the board and felt he no longer needed to fix the glaring problems with the game. I could understand it if he was burned out as we were led to believe, but he just went ahead and started working on another football game. That doesn't really support the burnout excuse. Max-FB didn't sell well and I just can't see how David thinks anyone is going to buy this new game.



agreed

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RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/15/2009 2:08:51 PM   
VCFL Commish


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quote:

Max-FB is a long running joke in some corners of the web. No matter how good this next game turns out to be, David will never win over the folks who have been mocking this game and David's actions over the past few years.


Does anyone remember CFL99 .That was awlfull stats problem never really fixed. Dave left that game on the scrap heap.Then we come to Max football a step up.I followed this game do to the Canadian rules aspect still not perfect but a big jump from CFL99.
What I am trying to say is each game gets better and better as long as Dave is trying I will be watching lets hope 3rd time is the charm.Don`t want to admit to how old I am now but the way these things take timew I will be probably 50 before the game comes out lol. 

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Post #: 82
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/15/2009 5:39:18 PM   
simmer

 

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Well put Gary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FIX the game we already have!

< Message edited by simmer -- 1/15/2009 5:40:18 PM >

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Post #: 83
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/17/2009 5:06:13 AM   
local8h


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Holly Cow....

   Whats going on here? I feel for all you ...Its just a game, I bought it and it was a gamble, I enjoyed playing with it when it was just the second patch, at least it was not a disappointing game like that BCFX ( which really suck! ) i hate it so much its in the thrift store now. Ive always think Maxfb will never be fix, and im fine with it, i've shut my mouth when i had a question because David Winter will always seem to be very rude to me, but i sticked to the game, well im tired of the game now.Especially when i gave Madden another chance with Madden 2004 which i bought as a sports package for a $19.00 a few years ago, Wow all the features i wanted was there, I love it so much that i bought all the rest of the Madden Releases. Now Texmod came out....it just went beyond perfect. I cant wait for Madden 2010 which they say be back on PC. Now for Maximum Football 3.0 with same engine and basically same graphics, hmmmm i just dont know.... What i can tell is, it will most likely be available 5 to 6 years from now.....sorry but by that time something will come along better, like Madden or other big company. Why i'm bieng sarcastic or speaking out now, well there are more people that are speaking out now, and i bought Maxfb four years ago..... and wow still basically the same game from when i bought it, just improved, but! it took Four years to be at its level now, Geez man, that's a very long time.... Can you imagine how long Maxfb 3.0 will take to finish....lets see maybe a little if lucky under 5 years for hopefully David gets some help.

anyhow lots of love to all you fellas.....


< Message edited by local8h -- 1/17/2009 10:01:48 PM >


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RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/20/2009 7:29:59 PM   
regenerator

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yngvai

It's too bad there wasn't a big open source football project that a bunch of people would work on. Just like with Mozilla Firefox or OpenOffice.....you could have OpenFootball or something like that.


You said it man.

How many times do we, as fans and consumers, have to be put through the wringer like this before someone wakes up and realizes what DOES and DOES NOT work? When I think back over the past ten years in the PC Simulation Football Gaming world, it's nothing but dashed hopes and unrealized promise. Division Rivals, FBPro '99, Madden, now MaxFB...

The first thing I thought when learning about David's burnout was that this thing didn't have to die with him. However, even if he hadn't intended on picking up the pieces in his own fashion (which I believe he always did), there's the pervasive attitude in the industry that source code is sacred, and should not be seen by anyone, even when the project it relates to is dead and buried.

So, maybe the only solution is that the game should just start open source in the first place. You've mentioned some great examples there with Open Office and Firefox, some great guides to go by as to how it could be done. This challenge appears to be too great for any individual company to successfully "tackle" and still make the majority of this admittedly niche-market happy. Seems like a different approach is called for. Here's to wishing...

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Post #: 85
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/21/2009 6:37:00 PM   
long_time_fan

 

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Maybe I am too loyal or blinded by the enjoyment I've received from the game, but I think that Dave went much farther than I ever expected him to go with support.  I hate the way he left us ... and there are elements that mare the game ... but those of us who bought version 1 (which I enjoyed) got version 2 (a complete step up - and something that other people would charge) FOR FREE.  Additionally, a few months ago, we were praising him for his dedication to the game and his desire to work out the kinks.  This is HIS game, and I hope that his overall vision emerges in the next iteration. But those of you who feel that you're owed, I understand the feeling, but I think that this final version is workable - and far better than "complete" games from other companies that I've purchased in the past.  At some point, Dave needs to move from repairing this one to building the next.  Just my opionion.
LTF

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Post #: 86
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/21/2009 9:59:36 PM   
redwolf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: long_time_fan

... but those of us who bought version 1 (which I enjoyed) got version 2 (a complete step up - and something that other people would charge) FOR FREE. 



Wow, I can't disagree more with this. Version 1 was released far too early and was in shambles, relatively speaking. Version 2 being offer for free for version 1 owners was a logical and neccessary compensation. Indeed, what we have now (version 2.2) is more like what should have being released for purchase (as version 1). Many folks stuck around, like me, because David seemed like a dedicated fellow and there was continual improvement of the game along the way. But yes, there is no debating the effort David put into the game for the period that he did. It is really a shame that it is over, and perhaps even more so that he didn't seek the aid additional programing support that was offered along the way.

...and to hear he is going "lone wolf" again doesn't leave me much of an optimist to his future endeavors...

My opinion, but I know many share it too.

< Message edited by redwolf1 -- 1/21/2009 10:02:04 PM >


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Post #: 87
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/22/2009 8:20:52 AM   
Tullius

 

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quote:

perhaps even more so that he didn't seek the aid additional programing support that was offered along the way.


???

I have never seen any additional programming support. The truth was that nobody was interested in.



< Message edited by Tullius -- 1/22/2009 6:59:18 PM >


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Post #: 88
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 4/2/2009 5:08:52 AM   
David Winter

 

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Greetings.

It's been a long time, but just wanted to make a really quick post.

1. I've begun the developers blog on my main web page. Please see the Development Update on the Version 3.0 section of the main page (www.maximum-football.com). This is the first of what will probably be many updates over the next months.

2. Version 3.0 is currently still multiple rules. I am adding features that improve the overall Canadian aspects of the game. Whether or not the game stays multiple rules in one package, or gets split into three distinct products has not been determined yet. Trying to make one game play three games in a balanced way has proven over the years to be an overly challenging task. Tweeking and adjusting something for one rule set, would often throw it out of whack for the others. I have to try and make the game something that can be supported.

3. Redwolf1, please check your email. 

Thank you
David

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Post #: 89
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 4/2/2009 1:53:11 PM   
Marauders

 

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Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

1. I've begun the developers blog on my main web page. Please see the Development Update on the Version 3.0 section of the main page (www.maximum-football.com). This is the first of what will probably be many updates over the next months.


Thank you for the update, David.

quote:

2. Version 3.0 is currently still multiple rules. I am adding features that improve the overall Canadian aspects of the game. Whether or not the game stays multiple rules in one package, or gets split into three distinct products has not been determined yet.


That's different from the last news update I was given, but it is welcome news.


(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 90
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