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Maximum Football 3.0?

 
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Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 2:19:19 AM   
lionsnob

 

Posts: 5
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Hello,

I just purchased this game for Christmas. I love the customizable features of the game!

I'm wondering about version 3.0. The maximum-football.com web site has a button for this version and some enhancements lined up for it, but I'm confused because there seems to be some threads stating that 3.0 is not coming out. Can someone please clarify? If there is no 3.0, can that button be removed from the site? I just recommended this game to a friend and told him of the 3.0 upgrade, so I don't want to look bad

Thanks!
Steve
Post #: 1
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 3:52:35 AM   
quixian

 

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Interesting - before I'd consider the 3.0 page to be anything more than a hack/hoax designed to generate lulz, I'd like to hear something from David / Marauders about the subject.

(in reply to lionsnob)
Post #: 2
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 6:00:59 AM   
Mykal


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very interesting/confusing

I've not seen this button til now
although I dont confess to visiting that page very often at all these days

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Post #: 3
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 7:37:51 AM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
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when did this come about?

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RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 9:43:41 AM   
Tullius

 

Posts: 1168
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It seems the page was created only some days ago.

quote:

Maximum-Football is copyright© 2002 - 2009, David A. Winter, and Wintervalley Software. All text, graphics and related information is copyright© 2002 - 2009,


But i know nothing and i could believe it only when i see it on my PC. So a MF 3.0 does not exist for me.

< Message edited by Tullius -- 1/2/2009 12:21:57 PM >


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RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 2:05:16 PM   
lionsnob

 

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I also thought there was a button about version 2.2 there before, nothing about 3.0.  Maybe it was an automated change?

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Post #: 6
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 2:32:13 PM   
MjH

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tullius

It seems the page was created only some days ago.

quote:

Maximum-Football is copyright© 2002 - 2009, David A. Winter, and Wintervalley Software. All text, graphics and related information is copyright© 2002 - 2009,



That footer is appearing on all the pages in the site, so I don't think that it is a good indicator of when the 3.0 page went up. However, the "2009" in the footer does indicate that David is actively maintaining the site, and I would hope that he would only have the 3.0 page there if he was serious about it.

Hopefully the few months off from MF has allowed David to recharge his batteries and renew his passion for the game. If so, hopefully he will adopt the policy of "it will be released only when it's ready" (for those that are new here, see: History of Maximum Football Part I).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tullius
But i know nothing and i could believe it only when i see it on my PC. So a MF 3.0 does not exist for me.


Probably the best attitude. Have fun with the current game, and if/when MF 3.0 becomes reality, we can get excited then.


(in reply to Tullius)
Post #: 7
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 4:58:41 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
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quote:

Maximum-Football 3.0

Maximum-Football 3.0 is in development!


Since David has posted it to his web page, I guess I can talk about what I know of it.

Maximum Football 3.0 is being worked on. Don't expect it any time soon, as David is busy doing his real world work, and 3.0 is a sideline. At this time, Maximum Football 3.0 is not scheduled to be released by Matrix Games.

quote:

Features currently being developed include (subject to change or exclusion without notice);

Integrated Playbook.
Improved graphics including completely new player models and front end artwork.
Improved environments.
Basic Player Trade AI for leagues.
Shootout overtime and mini-game.
Improved 3D game play performance.
Improved Arcade play.
Improved presnap motion in play design.
More...


These are items that were scheduled for 3.0, but there will be a major diffference in Maximum Football 3.0 that may be important to football gamers: the game will likely be league rules specific rather than an open sand box that it is now. It will be developed for Canadian rules football first and perhaps other rules types later.

quote:

Keep an eye on this section for further updates, new message boards, screen shots, and development blogs.

Since Maximum Football 3.0 development will not be associated with Matrix Games, I expect that David will re-open a board at Wintervalley Software or some other distribution entity.

(in reply to MjH)
Post #: 8
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 5:02:57 PM   
lionsnob

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

quote:

Maximum-Football 3.0

Maximum-Football 3.0 is in development!


Since David has posted it to his web page, I guess I can talk about what I know of it.

Maximum Football 3.0 is being worked on. Don't expect it any time soon, as David is busy doing his real world work, and 3.0 is a sideline. At this time, Maximum Football 3.0 is not scheduled to be released by Matrix Games.

quote:

Features currently being developed include (subject to change or exclusion without notice);

Integrated Playbook.
Improved graphics including completely new player models and front end artwork.
Improved environments.
Basic Player Trade AI for leagues.
Shootout overtime and mini-game.
Improved 3D game play performance.
Improved Arcade play.
Improved presnap motion in play design.
More...


These are items that were scheduled for 3.0, but there will be a major diffference in Maximum Football 3.0 that may be important to football gamers: the game will likely be league rules specific rather than an open sand box that it is now. It will be developed for Canadian rules football first and perhaps other rules types later.

quote:

Keep an eye on this section for further updates, new message boards, screen shots, and development blogs.

Since Maximum Football 3.0 development will not be associated with Matrix Games, I expect that David will re-open a board at Wintervalley Software or some other distribution entity.



Thanks for the info. I like everything except the inability to customize rules, but I can see how that can be a headache for a programmer.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 9
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 6:18:42 PM   
Mykal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

quote:

Maximum-Football 3.0

Maximum-Football 3.0 is in development!


Since David has posted it to his web page, I guess I can talk about what I know of it.

Maximum Football 3.0 is being worked on. Don't expect it any time soon, as David is busy doing his real world work, and 3.0 is a sideline. At this time, Maximum Football 3.0 is not scheduled to be released by Matrix Games.

quote:

Features currently being developed include (subject to change or exclusion without notice);

Integrated Playbook.
Improved graphics including completely new player models and front end artwork.
Improved environments.
Basic Player Trade AI for leagues.
Shootout overtime and mini-game.
Improved 3D game play performance.
Improved Arcade play.
Improved presnap motion in play design.
More...


These are items that were scheduled for 3.0, but there will be a major diffference in Maximum Football 3.0 that may be important to football gamers: the game will likely be league rules specific rather than an open sand box that it is now. It will be developed for Canadian rules football first and perhaps other rules types later.

quote:

Keep an eye on this section for further updates, new message boards, screen shots, and development blogs.

Since Maximum Football 3.0 development will not be associated with Matrix Games, I expect that David will re-open a board at Wintervalley Software or some other distribution entity.


Well thats cool with me
would be nice to know what will be compatable from 2.2 to 3.0
like playbooks, uniforms, stadiums etc.
or am I waisting my time with new uniforms and stadium re-paints

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Post #: 10
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 6:32:05 PM   
Marauders

 

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quote:

would be nice to know what will be compatable from 2.2 to 3.0 like playbooks, uniforms, stadiums etc.


Playbooks - likely not, as there will be several format and folder changes.
Uniforms - likely not, as the models are to be changed.
Stadiums - likely not, as there may be a new engine used.  I don't know what David has planned as far as being an open format or not.

quote:

or am I wasting my time with new uniforms and stadium re-paints


Understand that 3.0 is a long way off.  Considering that this is still being done by a single developer, one should consider 2.2 to be the standard for quite some time - especially for non-Canadian rules play.

I am certain the community would still want playbooks, uniforms, and stadiums for Maximum Football 2.2.


(in reply to Mykal)
Post #: 11
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 7:25:12 PM   
DAWUSS

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

quote:

would be nice to know what will be compatable from 2.2 to 3.0 like playbooks, uniforms, stadiums etc.


Playbooks - likely not, as there will be several format and folder changes.
Uniforms - likely not, as the models are to be changed.
Stadiums - likely not, as there may be a new engine used.  I don't know what David has planned as far as being an open format or not.

quote:

or am I wasting my time with new uniforms and stadium re-paints


Understand that 3.0 is a long way off.  Considering that this is still being done by a single developer, one should consider 2.2 to be the standard for quite some time - especially for non-Canadian rules play.

I am certain the community would still want playbooks, uniforms, and stadiums for Maximum Football 2.2.




What about things like rosters, team info, and the rest of the non-graphic related content? Yeah, sure, I could see a little problem with portrait/face/skin relations (but to a degree this is periodically happens in 2.2)


I may have some more questions about features later, but I don't know enough about 3.0 yet to build anything upon.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 12
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 7:52:59 PM   
Marauders

 

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quote:

What about things like rosters, team info, and the rest of the non-graphic related content?


I don't know what format changes are to be made.

The stats info in Maximum Football 2.2 are stored in a way to make them compact, but they are a pain to work with.  I do not know what changes David will make for 3.0.  I am sure there will be more fields used.

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Post #: 13
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 8:11:09 PM   
Mykal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

quote:

would be nice to know what will be compatable from 2.2 to 3.0 like playbooks, uniforms, stadiums etc.


Playbooks - likely not, as there will be several format and folder changes.
Uniforms - likely not, as the models are to be changed.
Stadiums - likely not, as there may be a new engine used.  I don't know what David has planned as far as being an open format or not.

quote:

or am I wasting my time with new uniforms and stadium re-paints


Understand that 3.0 is a long way off.  Considering that this is still being done by a single developer, one should consider 2.2 to be the standard for quite some time - especially for non-Canadian rules play.

I am certain the community would still want playbooks, uniforms, and stadiums for Maximum Football 2.2.



Yer, I was guessing as much
thanks for the heads up

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Post #: 14
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 8:38:48 PM   
therhino

 

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Wow that's really interesting. Seems David is focusing more on the 3D/arcade part of the game though which I think is where he should have worked more on earlier. Todd, when you say a long way off are you saying mid-late 09 or 2010?

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Post #: 15
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 8:52:17 PM   
Tullius

 

Posts: 1168
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From: Saxony (Germany)
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quote:

Todd, when you say a long way off are you saying mid-late 09 or 2010?


I think we should avoid any dates, too much can happen.

When i see the announcement then it seems to me he goes back to his original roots. But i hope that now finally the option play is included.

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http://www.abstract-football.com/max_tools.html

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Post #: 16
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 9:03:26 PM   
Mykal


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I'd have to 2nd that,
the less we know about "When" the better
to save on things getting messy again

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Post #: 17
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 9:43:47 PM   
mbsports

 

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Very interesting news - good to hear some things about the DB structure made to be compact and maybe changing that a bit.  Bummed about the different rule sets as that is what drew me in originally.  Good to hear that there's some thought going on in the works and hope to see something.  As for timelines, gotta echo everyone there.  Especially when you're in a single developer environment you post something and the next thing you know you've got a 14 year old asking when every 8 hours.


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Post #: 18
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 10:22:58 PM   
Marauders

 

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From: Minnesota
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quote:

therhino stated: Wow that's really interesting. Seems David is focusing more on the 3D/arcade part of the game though which I think is where he should have worked more on earlier.


An update of the graphics was always a goal for 3.0. How much it will be updated is the question. One should not have undue expectations in this area. After all, the player models of Maximum Football 2.2 are fine as long as one does not take the animations into account. I would state that the Maximum Football 2.2 models are up to Madden 2003 or 2004, but the animations are not even close. If the Maximum Football 3.0 models are better, the game will look better, but if the game still lacks the multitude of animations that make it play more realistically, it won't matter all that much.

If I was part of the project, which I am not at this time, I'd make sure that receivers have several types of catch animations that actually look the ball in and catch with hands out like a receiver should catch the ball. I'd put in the feet shuffle animations that make blocking look realistic, and I'd put in the slip and juke animations for running backs. Those are the very least that are needed, and better models will not resolve the problem the game would have looking realistic without them.

It is possible that Maximum Football 3.0 may also remove some other game options other than rules variables that we already know about.

quote:

Todd, when you say a long way off are you saying mid-late 09 or 2010?


I wouldn't even want to guess. David is doing this on his own, and it will take as long as it takes him to do what he wants to do. Anyone thinking of waiting for 3.0 instead of jumping into 2.2 may be waiting for Gadot.

quote:

mbsports stated: Very interesting news - good to hear some things about the DB structure made to be compact and maybe changing that a bit. Bummed about the different rule sets as that is what drew me in originally. Good to hear that there's some thought going on in the works and hope to see something.


You may be reading more into my comment than is there. David is used to the way the database structure works, so I don't know if he will change it. I do know that any managerial option will require more fields to be used, so that could muck up using old files. On the other hand, they may be able to be converted or loaded into 3.0. I have not been given more detail on that.

(in reply to mbsports)
Post #: 19
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/2/2009 10:34:50 PM   
DAWUSS

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL:  Marauders

quote:

Wow that's really interesting. Seems David is focusing more on the 3D/arcade part of the game though which I think is where he should have worked more on earlier.


An update of the graphics was always a goal for 3.0.  How much it will be updated is the question.  One should not have undue expectations in this area.  After all, the player models of Maximum Football 2.2 are fine as long as one does not take the animations into account.  I would state that the Maximum Football 2.2 models are up to Madden 2003 or 2004, but the animations are not even close.  If the Maximum Football 3.0 models are better, the game will look better, but if the game still lacks the multitude of animations that make it play more realistically, it won't matter all that much.  

If I was part of the project, which I am not at this time, I'd make sure that receivers have several types of catch animations that actually look the ball in and catch with hands out like a receiver should catch the ball.  I'd put in the feet shuffle animations that make blocking look realistic, and I'd put in the slip and juke animations for running backs.  Those are the very least that are needed, and better models will not resolve the problem the game would have looking realistic without them.

quote:

Todd, when you say a long way off are you saying mid-late 09 or 2010?


I wouldn't even want to guess.  David is doing this on his own, and it will take as long as it takes him to do what he wants to do.  Anyone thinking of waiting for 3.0 instead of jumping into 2.2 may be waiting for Gadot.

quote:

Very interesting news - good to hear some things about the DB structure made to be compact and maybe changing that a bit.  Bummed about the different rule sets as that is what drew me in originally.  Good to hear that there's some thought going on in the works and hope to see something.


You may be reading more into my comment than is there.  David is used to the way the database structure works, so I don't know if he will change it.  I do know that any managerial option will require more fields to be used, so that could muck up using old files.  On the other hand, they may be able to be converted or loaded into 3.0.  I have not been given more detail on that.



The animations (and the reactions to them) need to be improved. Like you said, the player models may be Madden 2003, but the animations are NFL QB Club 98. I know in the running game, the players all feel like sliding bricks (as opposed to moving people), and in the passing game... The QB has a throwing motion that's unrealistic once you get into the high school level. The Wide Receivers only make 2 types of catches, either a spinning catch, kneeling catch, and an awkward stride catch where it's more of a case of the ball magically appearing in the Wide Receiver's possesion, much like in old school football games (you know, all he had to do was touch the ball and he made the catch?). Defensive backs are even worse in terms of catch animations.

This is almost as pressing as the play in the trenches, which I think needs massive improvement. There isn't much in terms of blocking (fan out, bunch tight, pull left, pull right, delay [TE, RB]), or pass rushing (and the pass rush's relationship with the QB).

And then after that we can worry about things like atmosphere.


... listen to me, here I am recitating a wishlist...

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 20
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/3/2009 2:08:22 AM   
Tbird


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WoW Dave caught us off guard

I would've held off in announcing it early unless he's using the 2.2 version as the base then it probably wouldn't be another 5 years


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Post #: 21
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/3/2009 3:03:56 AM   
simmer

 

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I think that I'm a pretty reasonable person..........But, why don't David finsh this game first...Too many holes that should be fixed with this one before moving on........ And I think that it takes a lot of of nerve to post info for a Maximum Football title that is not compatible with the present game that defeats all the work that was done by his loyal followers.

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Post #: 22
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/3/2009 3:50:03 AM   
Mykal


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Agreed

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Post #: 23
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/3/2009 8:37:35 AM   
Tullius

 

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quote:

But, why don't David finsh this game first...Too many holes that should be fixed with this one before moving on........


It seems to me that a MF 3.0 should be an enhancement of the current game and so the one or the other hole will be fixed. Really new is that he has changed his approach and goes back to his original intention. I have doubts that he want write a new game or we see a completely overhaul besides the graphical engine.

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Post #: 24
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/3/2009 3:32:30 PM   
timewalker03

 

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One thing I always take into account with programmers. I will apply here with David also. "His Game, His Rules"! Whatever he does he will do it his way which may be why we see the split from Matrix. Control should always be in the programmers mind since they are the ones pouring blood sweat and tears into their work. If it is good we will buy it. If it is not then we won't. All will be well either way.

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Post #: 25
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/3/2009 5:04:56 PM   
Mykal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: timewalker03

One thing I always take into account with programmers. I will apply here with David also. "His Game, His Rules"! Whatever he does he will do it his way which may be why we see the split from Matrix. Control should always be in the programmers mind since they are the ones pouring blood sweat and tears into their work. If it is good we will buy it. If it is not then we won't. All will be well either way.


And just how will you know if its good or not - until you've bought it
cos you cant always rely on others to purchase first then wait for what they say
one mans waiste is another mans food - if you see my point

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Post #: 26
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/3/2009 5:47:21 PM   
redwolf1


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Well, better to be pessimistic on this one I think, then you could perhaps be pleasantly surprised.

Going to be a minimum of 2-3 years (if we take into account previous development trends)...and the lone wolf approach (no pun intended) doesn't bode too well with me. Would have like to have heard that a team (or at least a small team) was involved in the development. Oh well, we'll get what we get when we get it, if we choose to...

But it is nice to know that it will be coming (hopefully).

_____________________________





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Post #: 27
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/3/2009 9:22:43 PM   
therhino

 

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If it takes two or three years and all we get are the improvements listed, 3.0 isn't going to sell. Madden, Backbreaker, and who knows how many football games will be out for the PC by that point. Madden and Backbreaker are both using extremely good graphics engines and have a lot more money to work with. The only think MFB has that those games won't have is the ability to change rule sets and an in depth PDS the second which Backbreaker could have as well. I don't think that will be enough with Madden 04 graphics, even if David adds Madden 04 animations.

(in reply to redwolf1)
Post #: 28
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/4/2009 3:04:56 PM   
timewalker03

 

Posts: 171
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From: Omaha, NE
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mykal


quote:

ORIGINAL: timewalker03

One thing I always take into account with programmers. I will apply here with David also. "His Game, His Rules"! Whatever he does he will do it his way which may be why we see the split from Matrix. Control should always be in the programmers mind since they are the ones pouring blood sweat and tears into their work. If it is good we will buy it. If it is not then we won't. All will be well either way.


And just how will you know if its good or not - until you've bought it
cos you cant always rely on others to purchase first then wait for what they say
one mans waiste is another mans food - if you see my point


As with most things in life you will have to take the risk, or not take the risk. There are people out there who buy bad games and love them. By the time the game is developed and packaged for sale, the interest for it may be gone anyway. Yes I do see your point, and concur, but we will all have to wait and see what the product is before we can buy it let alone judge it. I already know I will not buy it as I will only buy another football game if EA sells their NCAA football for the PC. That is just me though.

(in reply to Mykal)
Post #: 29
RE: Maximum Football 3.0? - 1/4/2009 6:49:32 PM   
Marauders

 

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From: Minnesota
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quote:

Tbird stated: I would've held off in announcing it early unless he's using the 2.2 version as the base then it probably wouldn't be another 5 years


As far as I know, he is using 2.2 as the base - or at least some of the code that he still wants. From what I have been told, it will be a more stripped down game in some ways and expanded in others.

(in reply to Tbird)
Post #: 30
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