Division of LCU

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Division of LCU

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Division of LCU

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Division of LCU - 12/2/2008 9:03:59 AM

Micke II

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I post again my question here having receiving no answer so far from the war room section.

What are the benefits and inconvenients when a LCU (division or brigade)is divided in smaller components (regiments)
I have readen somewhere it's could be considered as gamey when the split is done during a combat due to the reduction effect on disruption and fatigue.
What is the general opinion on this subject ?

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/2/2008 9:43:53 AM

2ndACR

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I will split rear area divisions for garrison purposes, but when on the line, they stay full strength. There is a reason why I have a full division on the front line.

I have seen and heard about the split to protect troops. But you also have to remember, the is only so many "split" slots. So if your opponent splits alot of units, you will not be able to split yours. Hence, he gets the perks and you get the bad stuff.

(in reply to Micke II)

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/2/2008 11:20:21 AM

Yamato hugger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Micke II

I post again my question here having receiving no answer so far from the war room section.

What are the benefits and inconvenients when a LCU (division or brigade)is divided in smaller components (regiments)
I have readen somewhere it's could be considered as gamey when the split is done during a combat due to the reduction effect on disruption and fatigue.
What is the general opinion on this subject ?

Nothing "gamey" about it. The original code paid no heed to the size of a unit when it determines replacements and reduction of disrupted units. So a battalion recovers just as quickly as a division. So a player that divides his units to recover faster isnt doing anything in the world wrong.

(in reply to Micke II)

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/2/2008 12:11:43 PM

m10bob

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There are serious problems with splitting units to consider..If the entire unit is set to re-organise with newer weapons, and one of the rgt's is not in sufficient supply to make the change, it will continue with the older weapons and not be able to recombine with the parent unit..
Too, the computer will read the number of men in each unit and if you allowed the rgt's to get over-strength while divided, they will not be able to recombine.
I have learned my lesson and stopped splitting them unless as the previous poster stated, I might want to use them as garrison troops.

An exception to this is the following: In Frisco, I might get an aviation support unit, with say 150 aviation support points..I will load that unit onto maybe 10 ships and send them to 5 differnt locations..Each locatio will get av support and the computer is smart enough to rename the units as 1/32nd, 2/32nd, etc...These units can later be recombined but the end result will still say something like 1/32nd(for the entire unit)..
IMHO this is not "gamey" whatsoever, and is the easiest way to get av support up and down the Australian coast since the civilian av support (historical), is not represented in game(unhistorical)..

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/2/2008 2:15:07 PM

Micke II

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From: Paris France
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Thank you for your answers.
Yes, I have already seen that the recombination of a unit it not always that simple.

I have an another question a little more specific on the same subject.

During a combat in a hex what is the best option for the defender
- keep his division in one entity or split the division in 3 components.

Same question for the attacker.

(in reply to m10bob)

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/2/2008 2:40:11 PM

Feinder

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quote:

Nothing "gamey" about it. The original code paid no heed to the size of a unit when it determines replacements and reduction of disrupted units. So a battalion recovers just as quickly as a division. So a player that divides his units to recover faster isnt doing anything in the world wrong.

Its not the way the units recover, as the problem with the way they take damage. A division that is split into 3x Regiments, the 1st Regiment in line will take damage, and far less so to the other 2x regiments. Furthermore, the 1st regiment takes a disprorportionately FEWER casualties than when the unit is whole. Whereas, if the Division is whole, the larger (singular) unit, will take the whole damage (and greater casualties than if split). It -is- gamey.

A risk of dividing units is that, if one regiment is perma-destroyed, you can never recombine the unit. The sub-units will pull replacements, but you'll never be able to recombine/recreate the full division.

-F-

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/2/2008 2:54:29 PM

Yamato hugger

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Casualties are casualties. Doesnt matter if they are all in 1 regiment or in the division as a whole, they arent going to take less losses because the division is broken down. Thats a myth. The only differences are these: recovery time (which will be faster because of the 3 units) and AV. The modified AV will actually be LOWER with the units split up because the "B" and "C" regiments wont have as good of a commander roll as the "A" regiment. So in combat, you are actually worse off by splitting them.

Dont believe me? See for yourself. Look at the AV of an intact division, then split it and total the 3 regiments.

Edit: keep in mind in the combat you wont see the leader rolls, but you can see the "modified AV" if you have the cartoons on and watch the numbers next to the units.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 12/2/2008 3:13:51 PM >

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/2/2008 4:09:06 PM

rominet

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I completely agree with Yamato Hugger concerning casualties.
But what about diruption of a unit?
If you have only 1 one division in a hex suffering a bombardment (artillery i mean), the entire division will suffer a disruption.
But if you split the division in 3 parts, the first one will probably suffer the same disruption and what about the 2 others? I think they are protected by the first one so will undergo a lower disruption!

Hum, in fact, i am not sure the first reg will suffer the same disruption than the entire division. As it will suffer more casualties (in percentage) than the division, perhaps it will suffer a higher disruption. I am in the fog

< Message edited by rominet -- 12/2/2008 4:15:02 PM >

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/2/2008 4:32:21 PM

RUPD3658

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Japan can split all those Mongolain Cav units in China to garrison multiple bases without losing the use of front line troops. This in the main reason I would split a LCU up.

Another reason would be if I was paying PPs to change the unit's HQ. Rather than wait until I had enough for the whole unit I may break it up and change the HQ of each sub unit as I get the points.

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/2/2008 8:11:06 PM

Feinder

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Gamey example via PM.

-F-

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/2/2008 9:34:50 PM

Andy Mac

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I always disliked it as it increases the EFFECTIVE AV of a big stack as air attacks will disrupt a far smaller proportion of the total force if split.

Destroyed devices is the same (and it could be argued is a touch to high) but disruption is far far less and this increases and makes big stacks far far harder to beat

Andy

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 12/2/2008 9:35:15 PM >

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/3/2008 12:56:38 AM

Yamato hugger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I always disliked it as it increases the EFFECTIVE AV of a big stack as air attacks will disrupt a far smaller proportion of the total force if split.

Destroyed devices is the same (and it could be argued is a touch to high) but disruption is far far less and this increases and makes big stacks far far harder to beat

Andy

This may be true Andy, but I have played a lot of games, and I dont see a lot of bombing of LCUs in games, so net effect: nothing. Players dont typically do a lot of bombing of ground units mainly because (I think) it isnt a secondary mission of naval attack. So unless you have an exceptional number of aircraft in the area to cover enemy naval units moving around, ground attack is about the lowest priority mission there is.

And its been my experience that if 1 regiment DOES get hit, once you re-combine the division that disruption is spread out over the division about the same as it would have taken if the unit had been whole to begin with, but I will admit I have never done extensive trials on it.

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/3/2008 1:19:35 AM

Gem35

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Splitting a unit because you are forecasting an impending attack would be a little gamey if playing in a PBEM, but there are alot more gamey tactics one could perform.
Unless you plan to split and disperse a division to separate hexes, it is fair to assume you are trying to be "gamey"

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/3/2008 1:37:03 AM

Yamato hugger

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Not trying to be "gamey", trying to recover the disruption at the rate it SHOULD be if the original designers had taken unit size into consideration. Then again, maybe that breaking down a unit to recover WAS intended to begin with. No one could say really except Mike Woods.

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/3/2008 1:04:09 PM

Feinder

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I'll say that CAS (Ground Attack) can make a significant difference in a ground battle. You definately need to use more than a squadron of Wildcats with the 2x 100# bombs. Yes, I wish it was a secondary mission to NavAtk. But bombing the snot out of a defending stubborn position, can make a significant difference in a battle (even in WitP).

-F-

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RE: Division of LCU - 12/3/2008 1:15:46 PM

Rapunzel