Matrix Games Forums

War in the West gets its first update!Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm version 2.08 is now available!Command gets huge update!Order of Battle: Pacific Featured on Weekly Streaming SessionA new fight for Battle Academy!Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager is out for Mac!The definitive wargame of the Western Front is out now! War in the West gets teaser trailer and Twitch Stream!New Preview AAR for War in the West!War in the West Manual preview
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

What if?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> What if? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
What if? - 8/23/2008 4:46:23 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
The USS Enterprise was about 55 miles west of Hawaii on the morning of Dec 7, 1941. The Japanese strike group was 5 degrees off course (to the west) when they picked up radio Honolulu and corrected their course.

What if those B-17s had been delayed until monday morning instead of sent out on a sunday?

edit: well, saturday really.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 8/23/2008 4:48:21 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: What if? - 8/23/2008 6:22:40 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41361
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
The Japs would have won an even bigger victory, and the Enterprise would have been sunk.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 2
RE: What if? - 8/23/2008 8:17:58 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6587
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
I'd have to -likely- agree agree with Terminus.  The only wrinkle being (and this is actually a question), what the the Japanese search patrols like in the morning of 12-07?  Did they actually patrols out (if the patrols were spotted, it would certainly give away the presense of Japanese ships nearby).

So if KB really was running with no eyes, just strike for PH, then it's -possible- that Enterprise could have done "something" (if she were to find and surprise KB).  What was KB's own CAP like that morning?

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 3
RE: What if? - 8/23/2008 8:23:45 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41361
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
A 1-vs-6 fight? Not good odds there... The Big E might have taken 1 Nip flat-top with her to the bottom, but that's it.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 4
RE: What if? - 8/23/2008 8:40:41 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3430
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I'd have to -likely- agree agree with Terminus.  The only wrinkle being (and this is actually a question), what the the Japanese search patrols like in the morning of 12-07?  Did they actually patrols out (if the patrols were spotted, it would certainly give away the presense of Japanese ships nearby).

So if KB really was running with no eyes, just strike for PH, then it's -possible- that Enterprise could have done "something" (if she were to find and surprise KB).  What was KB's own CAP like that morning?

-F-



KB withheld either Zuikaku's or Shokaku's fighters for CAP because these ships hadn't been able to participate in the PH training as much as the others due to their commisioning in Aug/Sep 41.

KB did run without search planes until the morning of the attack however the submarine force did reconnoiter the harbor and the surrounding area. They were especially interested in the Lahaina anchorage west of PH in case any fleet units were there.

Enterprise would have had to have been north of Oahu to even have a chance at attacking considering the Japanese launched 200 miles north of PH and the limited range of Enterprise's aircraft. Had Enterprise been near enough to launch a strike, you can be most certain she would have tried though the results would have been negligible IMO. (Of course, I assume KB didn't find her first.) That is owning to the fact that Enterprise had 1 squadron of fighters, 2 of divebombers and 1 torpedo squadron. Enterprise would have had to keep some fighters as CAP and that would leave a very unprotected strike package. Most likely they would have been decimated before reaching KB... assuming that they could even find KB.

In addition. KB's first strike would probably have already struck PH leaving KB's second strike to divert to attack Enterprise. Enterprise's CAP would have been 15 F4F-3s at most and they did not have self-sealing fuel tanks or armor at this point plus their ammo trays were very prone to jamming during maneuvers. Enterprise's CAP most likely would have been overwhelmed by the escort leaving the Japanese bombers free to deliver their weapons. Also, consider that the AA protection of the fleet was woefully inadequate. Given their performance at the Marshall Islands 3 months later, it would be very hard to justify any degree of AA effectiveness on this particular Sunday morning.

In a nutshell, I believe Enterprise would have been sunk and KB most likely unscathed. KB might suffer a few more plane losses but that would have been about it.

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 5
RE: What if? - 8/23/2008 9:47:08 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 7194
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
What if a decent CAP had been up at Pearl...or the Western Union Telegram had been read....or people would have listened to Dusko Popov...or the navy would have gone with the F4F in the beginning instead of the Brewster...or that shake 'n bake Lieutenant at the RADAR trailer would have had his head out of his ass...or (ad infinitum).................

_____________________________




(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 6
RE: What if? - 8/23/2008 10:10:36 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4678
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline
Now that's an interesting thought, a lt. without his head up his ass, a real rarity.                

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forum/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 7
RE: What if? - 8/24/2008 1:04:47 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 8375
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
The Japanese did expect to lose some ships at Pearl.  The Enterprise might have put a bomb in a carrier or two, but 6 to 1 is poor odds.  The Enterprise CAW would have had surprise on their side.  They also had some excellent air crews.  Six months later Cmdr Best crippled the Akagi almost single handedly.

On the downside, their doctrine was completely untested and they were out numbered.

Bill


_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 8
RE: What if? - 8/24/2008 1:43:28 AM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12510
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
What I'm wondering about the the "Holy Surpise Attack Batman!" factor. Would Enterprise really have been able to do anything? Was it prepared for a strike or would it have taken them too long to organize? In fact, did not some of Enterprises SBDs get caught up in the PH attack, some even getting shot down by friendly fire?

_____________________________


Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 9
RE: What if? - 8/24/2008 3:14:10 AM   
Nomad

 

Posts: 4368
Joined: 9/5/2001
Status: offline
I believe that Halsey was in command - they were ready. The SBDs were launched as ASW and the were to land at PH. They just got caught up in the attack.

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 10
RE: What if? - 8/24/2008 3:41:29 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
Ahhh. You all miss the point. Sure, we would have lost the Enterprise, but likely would have spared the BBs. Besides, Enterprise would be back as an Essex in 18 months

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 11
RE: What if? - 8/24/2008 3:59:16 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 7194
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Ahhh. You all miss the point. Sure, we would have lost the Enterprise, but likely would have spared the BBs. Besides, Enterprise would be back as an Essex in 18 months


We might have also lost Halsey, (and then our fellow Ranger friend frm Indy might go by the name of "Ghormley"?)

< Message edited by m10bob -- 8/24/2008 4:00:41 AM >


_____________________________




(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 12
RE: What if? - 8/24/2008 4:19:51 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2453
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
Much better what if...

What if the USN were running regular patrols of fleet-class subs across the North Pacific (in training/preparation for the coming war) and spotted the KB as it left its home waters?

Not far fetched, at all, IMO.

No, none of the subs would have torp'd a one of them, but it would have been pretty ugly, come opening day, had all those USAAF pursuit A/C been aloft when the first strike appeared.

That suggested, I'm not sure that the peacetime leadership of the U.S. military, forewarned, would have proved any more effective than MacArthur's crew in the Philippines.

We'll never know.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 13
RE: What if? - 8/24/2008 4:43:33 AM   
afspret


Posts: 796
Joined: 2/19/2004
From: Hanahan, SC
Status: offline
...worms had machine guns?

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 14
RE: What if? - 8/24/2008 9:28:05 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: afspret

...worms had machine guns?


No danger there. They dont have trigger fingers

(in reply to afspret)
Post #: 15
RE: What if? - 8/24/2008 12:34:18 PM   
Gem35


Posts: 3418
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
Big E would not have had a chance, all of you are forgetting the Zero Bonus.

_____________________________

It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?


Banner By Feurer Krieg

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 16
RE: What if? - 8/25/2008 9:07:09 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 2852
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: The deepest, darkest pit of hell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

Much better what if...

What if the USN were running regular patrols of fleet-class subs across the North Pacific (in training/preparation for the coming war) and spotted the KB as it left its home waters?



One of the "PH conspiracy" websites I came accross maintains that KB had been sighted by a Dutch submarine (another site says it was a Dutch destroyer) days before the strike while crossing the North Pacific. What if this Dutch vessel had had enough fuel left to generate the electricity needed to get off a radio warning...


_____________________________

Carpe Cerevisiam



WitP AAR "Six Years of War"

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 17
RE: What if? - 8/25/2008 10:28:35 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

Much better what if...

What if the USN were running regular patrols of fleet-class subs across the North Pacific (in training/preparation for the coming war) and spotted the KB as it left its home waters?

Not far fetched, at all, IMO.

No, none of the subs would have torp'd a one of them, but it would have been pretty ugly, come opening day, had all those USAAF pursuit A/C been aloft when the first strike appeared.

That suggested, I'm not sure that the peacetime leadership of the U.S. military, forewarned, would have proved any more effective than MacArthur's crew in the Philippines.

We'll never know.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)


Actually Dugout Dougs planes were in the air. Right at first light expecting the Jap attack. Problem was weather delayed the take offs on Formosa, so the raids didnt arrive until the CAP was on the ground refueling.

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 18
RE: What if? - 8/25/2008 10:37:32 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 8375
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
One of the "PH conspiracy" websites I came accross maintains that KB had been sighted by a Dutch submarine (another site says it was a Dutch destroyer) days before the strike while crossing the North Pacific. What if this Dutch vessel had had enough fuel left to generate the electricity needed to get off a radio warning...



I have read that a Russian freighter headed from the US West Coast to Vladivostok did encounter the KB headed to Hawaii. The Russians deperately wanted to remain neutral with the Japanese so the freighter did not report anything.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 19
RE: What if? - 8/25/2008 12:49:30 PM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
One of the "PH conspiracy" websites I came accross maintains that KB had been sighted by a Dutch submarine (another site says it was a Dutch destroyer) days before the strike while crossing the North Pacific. What if this Dutch vessel had had enough fuel left to generate the electricity needed to get off a radio warning...



I have read that a Russian freighter headed from the US West Coast to Vladivostok did encounter the KB headed to Hawaii. The Russians deperately wanted to remain neutral with the Japanese so the freighter did not report anything.

Bill


This has been suggested both by Agawa and by Layton. However, there are good reasons for concluding that no such encounter took place.

_____________________________




(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 20
RE: What if? - 8/25/2008 11:54:25 PM   
madgamer2

 

Posts: 1236
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline
These are not the killer "What IF" situations. the real what if was letting the Jap Air commander have his way and let the third strike take out the fuel storage as he requested. Nothing would have moved out of PH for some time due to lack of fuel.
The Jap adm. told the air commander that they had been lucky in getting 2 strikes in and not knowing where at American Carriers were made a third strike would put the task force at risk. Its one of those moments like the German Panzers not being allowed to close the last French port at Dunkirk. Such is history.

Madgamer

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 21
RE: What if? - 8/26/2008 12:09:09 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 7194
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

These are not the killer "What IF" situations. the real what if was letting the Jap Air commander have his way and let the third strike take out the fuel storage as he requested. Nothing would have moved out of PH for some time due to lack of fuel.
The Jap adm. told the air commander that they had been lucky in getting 2 strikes in and not knowing where at American Carriers were made a third strike would put the task force at risk. Its one of those moments like the German Panzers not being allowed to close the last French port at Dunkirk. Such is history.

Madgamer



Excellent "what if"..Suppose the ONLY target had been the fuel storage tank yard, and forget those BB's altogether?
Just put subs between Hawaii and the American west coast and go for the tankers.

Now that would really mess up Allied "turn-around time".




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by m10bob -- 8/26/2008 12:16:53 PM >


_____________________________




(in reply to madgamer2)
Post #: 22
RE: What if? - 8/26/2008 12:16:48 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22643
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Excellent "what if"..Suppose the ONLY target had been the fuel storage tank yard, and forget those BB's altogether?
Just put subs between Hawaii and the American west coast and go for the tankers.





Few years ago we had "lively" debate about this picture and what it meant IIRC...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 23
RE: What if? - 8/26/2008 5:43:16 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12510
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I believe that Halsey was in command - they were ready. The SBDs were launched as ASW and the were to land at PH. They just got caught up in the attack.

But that's my point. If the SBDs were aloft on ASW would they not have to land, refuel, rearm, etc.

_____________________________


Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 24
RE: What if? - 8/26/2008 5:45:53 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12510
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

Much better what if...

What if the USN were running regular patrols of fleet-class subs across the North Pacific (in training/preparation for the coming war) and spotted the KB as it left its home waters?



One of the "PH conspiracy" websites I came accross maintains that KB had been sighted by a Dutch submarine (another site says it was a Dutch destroyer) days before the strike while crossing the North Pacific. What if this Dutch vessel had had enough fuel left to generate the electricity needed to get off a radio warning...


Some radio man at PH would have wondered what that strange Dutch sounding babble was coming across the air waves and would have decided it wasn't worth disturbing his commanders nap.

_____________________________


Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 25
RE: What if? - 8/26/2008 6:37:19 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6587
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
Disclaimer : I know very little about the fueling or refueling of WW2 ships (or modern ones for that matter).  But...

If the storage tanks had been hit, yeah, that's bad.

But how much of that stuff in PH actually -has- to move?

Those BBs are going to remain seated, that's obvious enough.  With severe fuel shortage, you can't send them back to West Coast for a month, so fine, they sit.

Post attack, vs. either capital ships or the fuel farm, the useful ships in PH are
1.  Subs.  Yes, their torps don't work, but they don't know that.  Otherwise, US subs got into the action right off the bat.
2.  DDs.  It's reasonable to expect enemy sub activity around PH, esp when the tankers are due to arive.  So you having fuel for your DDs for ASW and escort would certainly be useful.
3.  Cruisers.  Mostly to escort your carriers, due to their speed and longer legs of DDs.

1.  What's the comperable fuel load of a sub vs. BB?  Or DD vs. BB.  (if subs run on diesel, what do the BBs run on?  Diesel? or something else?)  Let's say 70% of your fuel stores are destroyed.  My guess is, you've probably got plenty of fuel to refuel your subs several times, given that they don't guzzle like BBs.
2.  Your cruisers are your largest drinkers, you might have trouble getting these guys out.  Maybe you're limited in the number you can send out, or the range of your strike (so maybe no raids on Kwaj or Marcus as were historical).
3.  How much does yankee ingenuity count for?  Can you transfer the fuel from less fuel ships, and make it available for your more useful vessels?
4.  Tank farms are impressive to see, but (and I have no idea of the layout of PH in 1941), but how much is stored under-ground?  I know at MacDill AFB there are some impressive looking fuel tanks, but the reality is, a lot of it is stored underground and doesn't even look like a storage tank.

My main point being that, if you've got enough fuel to run hundreds of ships all over the globe 9on a good day), even if your fuel reserves are crippled, how much fuel does it really take to run the most critical few dozen (that are going to produce the most results), when those ships (probably) aren't your primary guzzelers anyway?

Just asking, I really don't know anything at all about this sort of thing.

-F-


< Message edited by Feinder -- 8/26/2008 6:40:40 PM >


_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 26
RE: What if? - 8/26/2008 6:58:58 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22643
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Disclaimer : I know very little about the fueling or refueling of WW2 ships (or modern ones for that matter).  But...

If the storage tanks had been hit, yeah, that's bad.

But how much of that stuff in PH actually -has- to move?

Those BBs are going to remain seated, that's obvious enough.  With severe fuel shortage, you can't send them back to West Coast for a month, so fine, they sit.

Post attack, vs. either capital ships or the fuel farm, the useful ships in PH are
1.  Subs.  Yes, their torps don't work, but they don't know that.  Otherwise, US subs got into the action right off the bat.
2.  DDs.  It's reasonable to expect enemy sub activity around PH, esp when the tankers are due to arive.  So you having fuel for your DDs for ASW and escort would certainly be useful.
3.  Cruisers.  Mostly to escort your carriers, due to their speed and longer legs of DDs.

1.  What's the comperable fuel load of a sub vs. BB?  Or DD vs. BB.  (if subs run on diesel, what do the BBs run on?  Diesel? or something else?)  Let's say 70% of your fuel stores are destroyed.  My guess is, you've probably got plenty of fuel to refuel your subs several times, given that they don't guzzle like BBs.
2.  Your cruisers are your largest drinkers, you might have trouble getting these guys out.  Maybe you're limited in the number you can send out, or the range of your strike (so maybe no raids on Kwaj or Marcus as were historical).
3.  How much does yankee ingenuity count for?  Can you transfer the fuel from less fuel ships, and make it available for your more useful vessels?
4.  Tank farms are impressive to see, but (and I have no idea of the layout of PH in 1941), but how much is stored under-ground?  I know at MacDill AFB there are some impressive looking fuel tanks, but the reality is, a lot of it is stored underground and doesn't even look like a storage tank.

My main point being that, if you've got enough fuel to run hundreds of ships all over the globe 9on a good day), even if your fuel reserves are crippled, how much fuel does it really take to run the most critical few dozen (that are going to produce the most results), when those ships (probably) aren't your primary guzzelers anyway?

Just asking, I really don't know anything at all about this sort of thing.

-F-


IIRC from the thread we discussed this few years back the better target for Japanese would have been the repair shops and the tank farm would be next best one...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 27
RE: What if? - 8/28/2008 11:46:52 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 8375
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Disclaimer : I know very little about the fueling or refueling of WW2 ships (or modern ones for that matter). But...

If the storage tanks had been hit, yeah, that's bad.

But how much of that stuff in PH actually -has- to move?

Those BBs are going to remain seated, that's obvious enough. With severe fuel shortage, you can't send them back to West Coast for a month, so fine, they sit.

Post attack, vs. either capital ships or the fuel farm, the useful ships in PH are
1. Subs. Yes, their torps don't work, but they don't know that. Otherwise, US subs got into the action right off the bat.
2. DDs. It's reasonable to expect enemy sub activity around PH, esp when the tankers are due to arive. So you having fuel for your DDs for ASW and escort would certainly be useful.
3. Cruisers. Mostly to escort your carriers, due to their speed and longer legs of DDs.

1. What's the comperable fuel load of a sub vs. BB? Or DD vs. BB. (if subs run on diesel, what do the BBs run on? Diesel? or something else?) Let's say 70% of your fuel stores are destroyed. My guess is, you've probably got plenty of fuel to refuel your subs several times, given that they don't guzzle like BBs.
2. Your cruisers are your largest drinkers, you might have trouble getting these guys out. Maybe you're limited in the number you can send out, or the range of your strike (so maybe no raids on Kwaj or Marcus as were historical).
3. How much does yankee ingenuity count for? Can you transfer the fuel from less fuel ships, and make it available for your more useful vessels?
4. Tank farms are impressive to see, but (and I have no idea of the layout of PH in 1941), but how much is stored under-ground? I know at MacDill AFB there are some impressive looking fuel tanks, but the reality is, a lot of it is stored underground and doesn't even look like a storage tank.

My main point being that, if you've got enough fuel to run hundreds of ships all over the globe 9on a good day), even if your fuel reserves are crippled, how much fuel does it really take to run the most critical few dozen (that are going to produce the most results), when those ships (probably) aren't your primary guzzelers anyway?

Just asking, I really don't know anything at all about this sort of thing.

-F-


Capital ships take a lot of fuel. The BBs are the most fuel hungry and they were out of action, but carriers need fuel too. If the tank farm had been partially destroyed, minor operations would have been possible from Pearl Harbor, but the main fleet would have had to pull back to Los Angeles.

Alfred Mahan wrote the textbook on naval power in 1890. He observed that the key to keeping ships in an area were coaling stations. When oil replaced coal, the critical element became oil stations. In World War I, there was a naval battle off the Falkland Islands. The reason anybody cared was because it was a Royal Navy fueling station for their ships.

If the tank farm at Pearl had been hit, it's quite possible that it would have been out of action for a year or more. The fires would have burned up the infrastructure around them for fueling ships which would have had to be rebuilt from scratch.

The repair facilities at Pearl are another critical asset. From playing WitP, we all know moving ships to the West Coast for repair can be a pain. What if you had to do that for even mildy damaged ships?

The repair facilities at Pearl are the only reason some of the BBs sunk during the attack were put back to sea. If the port didn't have major ship repair assets already there, those sunk ships would have just sat and rusted.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 28
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> What if? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.125