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This is how it all started! - 8/22/2008 7:12:06 PM   
andym


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George the third, proclamation of rebellion


Proclamation of Rebellion
August 23, 1775

A proclamation issued by George III, responding to increasing hostilities in the American colonies.

Whereas many of our subjects in divers parts of our Colonies and Plantations in North America, misled by dangerous and ill designing men, and forgetting the allegiance which they owe to the power that has protected and supported them; after various disorderly acts committed in disturbance of the publick peace, to the obstruction of lawful commerce, and to the oppression of our loyal subjects carrying on the same; have at length proceeded to open and avowed rebellion, by arraying themselves in a hostile manner, to withstand the execution of the law, and traitorously preparing, ordering and levying war against us: And whereas, there is reason to apprehend that such rebellion hath been much promoted and encouraged by the traitorous correspondence, counsels and comfort of divers wicked and desperate persons within this realm: To the end therefore, that none of our subjects may neglect or violate their duty through ignorance thereof, or through any doubt of the protection which the law will afford to their loyalty and zeal, we have thought fit, by and with the advice of our Privy Council, to issue our Royal Proclamation, hereby declaring, that not only all our Officers, civil and military, are obliged to exert their utmost endeavours to suppress such rebellion, and to bring the traitors to justice, but that all our subjects of this Realm, and the dominions thereunto belonging, are bound by law to be aiding and assisting in the suppression of such rebellion, and to disclose and make known all traitorous conspiracies and attempts against us our crown and dignity; and we do accordingly strictly charge and command all our Officers, as well civil as military, and all others our obedient and loyal subjects, to use their utmost endeavours to withstand and suppress such rebellion, and to disclose and make known all treasons and traitorous conspiracies which they shall know to be against us, our crown and dignity; and for that purpose, that they transmit to one of our principal Secretaries of State, or other proper officer, due and full information of all persons who shall be found carrying on correspondence with, or in any manner or degree aiding or abetting the persons now in open arms and rebellion against our Government, within any of our Colonies and Plantations in North America, in order to bring to condign punishment the authors, perpetrators, and abetters of such traitorous designs.

Given at our Court at St. James's the twenty-third day of August, one thousand seven hundred and seventy-five, in the fifteenth year of our reign.

GOD save the KING.


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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/22/2008 7:28:37 PM   
EdinHouston

 

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They didnt really like sentences in those days, did they. I mean, talk about a run-on sentence! I mean, throw in a period or a paragraph break now and then, what?

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/22/2008 7:30:34 PM   
cantona2


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Must have taken a really deep breath before HM started

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/22/2008 8:35:27 PM   
andym


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Being the King he was allowed to do anything,so a few missed punctuation marks can be forgiven i think.

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/22/2008 10:33:42 PM   
Carl Myers

 

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quote:

proclamation of rebellion


So that is what you whosoever is in charge English speakers call the American Counter-Revolution.

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/22/2008 11:31:55 PM   
Sarge


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quote:


Whereas many of our subjects in divers parts of our Colonies and Plantations in North America, misled by dangerous and ill designing men, and forgetting the allegiance which they owe to the power that has protected and supported them







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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 12:21:48 AM   
Greybriar


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August 23, 1775. I wonder how many people don't know there was fighting before the Declaration of Independence was signed?

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 1:01:24 AM   
flipperwasirish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

August 23, 1775. I wonder how many people don't know there was fighting before the Declaration of Independence was signed?


Actually most people I have ever talked to about the start of the war were aware that the Declaration of Independence was not the start of the war.

Go back and ask for a refund from your teachers, they failed you.

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 5:45:15 AM   
Son_of_Montfort


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And you could say that the war ended in a nice "Coup de Grasse."

If you get that, you get a cookie.

SoM


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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 8:30:34 AM   
pasternakski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

And you could say that the war ended in a nice "Coup de Grasse."

The Admiral showed himself capable of applying a half-Nelson.

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 9:40:56 AM   
Greybriar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

August 23, 1775. I wonder how many people don't know there was fighting before the Declaration of Independence was signed?


Actually most people I have ever talked to about the start of the war were aware that the Declaration of Independence was not the start of the war.

Go back and ask for a refund from your teachers, they failed you.


My teachers did not fail me. I knew there were battles prior to the signing of the Declaration of Independence. What I was wondering was exactly what I wrote: "I wonder how many people don't know there was fighting before the Declaration of Independence was signed?" What with the apparent inability of some teachers to even teach their students to read, it occurred to me they might also have failed in their responsibilities to teach history.

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 3:29:32 PM   
flipperwasirish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

What I was wondering was exactly what I wrote: "I wonder how many people don't know there was fighting before the Declaration of Independence was signed?" What with the apparent inability of some teachers to even teach their students to read, it occurred to me they might also have failed in their responsibilities to teach history.


I took your statement to mean that the origin of your comment was from your experiance. If they taught you well why wouldn't you think the children after you were taught well?

There will always be a few poor teachers, but most of them are very hard working people.

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 4:41:22 PM   
Son_of_Montfort


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I teach history at the college level and I will say that high school level studies are a mixed bag. I have students come in who know lots, I have students who, when asked what famous document was signed in 1215 [Yes, I am an idiot] answered "The Declaration of Independence."

Not all of it is about teacher failure though, some of it is student failure. Some Americans don't know where Canada and Mexico are (let alone France, Britain, and Poland). As John Stewart says, "War is God's way of teaching Americans geography."

And good one Paster...


< Message edited by Son_of_Montfort -- 8/23/2008 10:33:46 PM >


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"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 5:41:55 PM   
Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

I teach history at the college level and I will say that high school level studies are a mixed bag. I have students come in who know lots, I have students who, when asked what famous document was signed in 1214 answered "The Declaration of Independence."

Not all of it is about teacher failure though, some of it is student failure. Some Americans don't know where Canada and Mexico are (let alone France, Britain, and Poland). As John Stewart says, "War is God's way of teaching Americans geography."

And good one Paster...



LMAO those hillbilly Americans,

“Professor “ history telling us his students don’t have a clue when The Declaration of Independence was signed, Collage level you say and your students cant point out Canada , Mexico, France, Britain or Poland …….wow that’s bad !

So is this before or after they leave your classroom ?





Crazy me , but that sounds just like the attitude coming an “educator” that’s part of the problem

but hey ! thanks for clearing it up

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 6:09:40 PM   
Son_of_Montfort


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge
LMAO those hillbilly Americans,

“Professor “ history telling us his students don’t have a clue when The Declaration of Independence was signed, Collage[EDIT Spelling: College] level you say and your students cant[Edit: Add ' after n] point out Canada , Mexico, France, Britain or Poland …….wow that’s bad !

So is this before or after they leave your classroom ?

Crazy me , but that sounds just like the attitude coming an “educator” [EDIT: Garbled, unintelligible] that’s part of the problem

but hey ! thanks for clearing it up


I'm not sure what you meant by this post, but this "hillbilly American" corrected some of the errors.

1. I teach medieval and early modern to modern European history - so we were talking about the Magna Carta and they said "Declaration of Independence."

2. This is upon entry to my class. You better believe that on EVERY final exam I give there is a multiple choice question that says - The American Declaration of Independence was signed in?" With choices that include 1776. Also, my students read the Declaration of Independence and the French Revolution's Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen, and are expected to compare them. Side note: BTW, I highly suggest everyone do this, it is fascinating to see the similarities and differences between the two documents - both are online. If you are familiar with Locke, Rousseau, and Voltaire, you really see how these writers were incorporated into these documents.

3. I give a map test of modern Europe, so the students in my class will know where Poland, Russia, France, etc, are.

So Sarge, why the hate towards me? I was simply saying that the amount of knowledge that my Freshman have upon entering my class is a factor of two things: the quality of their high school teachers and the amount of effort that the student themselves put into High school.

SoM


< Message edited by Son_of_Montfort -- 8/23/2008 6:24:48 PM >


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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 7:28:18 PM   
sullafelix

 

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I have seen numerous studies that give tests to students entering and in college. All of them have had highest scores in the 60's and lowest are disgusting. Now some may take it as a joke or whatever and not answer correctly. The main answer when asked about the test was I don't need to know any of this to make money.

The tests I am talking about are history and geography. These are some of the most incredible lack of knowledge of most of those tested. No one knew who Mussolini or Churchill were. No one knew that Arizona is a state, the ones who had heard of it thought it was a part of Mexico. I could go on and on. I do not believe this is a teacher problem. This is a curriculum problem, and the fact that learning takes second place to being babysitters and all the values that they try to instill in the students. My youngest daughter spent all last year with a child who would scream and thrash about on the floor for a good amount of class time. This child had an aide and removing the child was not an option because he had to be mainstreamed. My youngest son had a child who had an aide and there were only 18 children in his class. This child wandered about the class spitting on people. Finally my son had had enough and said to the child that he would shoot him with his fathers guns ( I have only replicas and no ammo or powder ). You can imagine what trouble he was going to be in. That is untill the rest of the class treated him like a hero and the real story of what was happening in the class finally came out. I was asked about my weaponry and he was suspended for two days, but it could have been much worse.

The one thing that really annoys me, is that in the US now you are not deemed educated unless you have a degree. I went to a public high school and that is as far as I went. By high school papers had to be typed and have no spelling etc. errors. We were given empty maps in grade school of the different continents and had to fill in rivers etc. Both of my older children were never taught geogaphy all through their schooling, I taught them it.

I know I mangle the English language now, but I was proficient in writing thirty odd years ago. Not having to use the skill from then until a few years ago, I know I have forgotten most if not all. I know mostly because my wife should have been an editor.


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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 7:43:34 PM   
andym


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Isnt Mussolini an italian heat rub for aching muscles?

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 8:19:52 PM   
KG Erwin


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With Birth of America 2 now being released and distributed by Matrix, you have a game that illustrates how the complex series of diplomatic and military decisions resulted in the creation of the United States. You guys can talk about it ad infinitum, but here's your chance to play it out. Yeah, I bought the game, so let's see who will take control of North America. BTW, I am an American -- come into our arms.

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 9:33:46 PM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EdinHouston

They didnt really like sentences in those days, did they. I mean, talk about a run-on sentence! I mean, throw in a period or a paragraph break now and then, what?


The king might be forgiven if one remembers he was not English, and could not speak a word of English.
King George the III was German.

EDIT..(I was taught in college this king was of the house of Hanover even though he was born in London, and was never raised to speak English, but I have found some sites that indicate he was the first of his family to be educated in English. Rather than retract and remove my posting, I leave it to my friends to research, at their option into this matter.)

< Message edited by m10bob -- 8/23/2008 10:23:52 PM >


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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 9:53:42 PM   
Splinterhead


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I thought the Magna Carta was signed in 1215

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 10:10:03 PM   
andym


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Yes Magna Carta was signed in 1215,and has nothing to do with the above Declaration.Magna Carta was an attempt by the Barons of england to consolidate their power undermine the Kings power and make it look like they were acting for the Common Man.

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 10:25:17 PM   
sullafelix

 

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Sorry George I was originally the Elector of Hanover when he became king of England after Anne died. He could not speak English but George II and certainly George III could. George I was a Stuart through his grandmother I believe. Most of the English royalty since Anne have been more German than English. They even changed their name to Windsor in 1917 because the original was German.

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 10:33:13 PM   
Son_of_Montfort


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Well, I'll be danged, I did type 1214 didn't I? I must have had the Battle of Bouvines (which lead to John's problems in the first place) on the brain.

Andym, I wouldn't say it had NOTHING to do with the Declaration of Independence (although the students who answered that were not making the connection). The reason that the American Continental Congress felt that they COULD rebel was due to the fact that they believed that certain liberties given to all property owning Englishmen, with their genesis in the Magna Carta, were being broken. John Locke bases a lot of his idea of property and liberty from Magna Carta's examples. Further, the idea of Habeas Corpus was formulated in several of the Magna Carta drafts (there is actually more than one Magna Carta, other drafts were signed by subsequent monarchs).

My point was not that all high school teachers were bad. In fact, several of my friends and my parents were high school teachers. I am saying that SOME are bad (my American history teacher was terrible, the basketball coach who cared less about teaching). I am also in agreement, the curriculum of some areas needs reworking. There is a lack of standards in American education, so curriculum varies widely between public schools, home schooling, parochial schooling, etc. Many public schools are "run" by elected members of a community (school boards), often who have no background in education at all. Also, you tend to see what Sulla05 described, an inability to really punish or remove problem children from classrooms due to legislation that ties the hands of teachers and principles.

Anyway, this is bordering on political discussion, so I best stop.


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"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/23/2008 10:39:16 PM   
Son_of_Montfort


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Yeah, that Hanoverian dynasty thing is really crazy. It is all because William and Mary didn't have an heirs. Something having to do with William's flagrant homosexuality. Queen Anne didn't either (is she the namesake of Queen Anne's Cordial Cherries and the plant Queen Anne's Lace). So it passed to a non-English speaker. Bizarre.

Of course Napoleon spoke French so poorly at first that he was constantly made fun of. He apparently always spoke it with an Italian accent.

SoM


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/24/2008 2:08:02 AM   
sullafelix

 

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Yes Queen Anne's lace is for her. Napoleon's family name was actually Buonaparte.
 
But back to England, most of the royals had very little or no English blood in them. John softsword was 3/4 or more French. Cnut and William I and so many others had no English blood whatsoever, or a very tenous string through a great grandmother who was only 1/4 English herself.

I always found it funny that Elizabeth I and Mary of Scotland were locked in this 20 year battle, when everyone knew Mary's child would succeed Elizabeth. I know Protestant vs Catholic etc., but I still find it odd.

I have also been surprised at the amount of wargamers who are not history nuts like myself. I always assumed that every wargamer was gaga over history, and while some are a lot know a good amount but aren't always reading, breathing and eating it.

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/24/2008 3:55:27 AM   
m10bob


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I remember the heads of most of the warring European nations in WWI were all first cousins and Queen Victoria was the grandmother of all of them.

I always thought it odd that dog breeders are aware of inbreeding problems, yet "royal families" are perfectly willing to accept the inherent risks while the rest of us look on.

George Rogers Clark was the cousin of my great grandfather, (4 times removed),and was in his army when they took the Northwest Territory.
(William Clark was George's little brother, and got more attention, sadly).
One of my Douthit ancestors was at Valley Forge.
While very few Americans have "royalty" bragging rights, we do honor the deeds (or misdeeds) of our ancestors.

< Message edited by m10bob -- 8/24/2008 4:54:55 AM >


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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/24/2008 7:00:38 AM   
Son_of_Montfort


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And nearly all of us are cousins to the Lees of Virginia. Dang... there were just too many of them! Richard Henry Lee was a patriot in the War, and his cousin Robert E. Lee (down the line) was a "patriot" of sorts in another Rebellion. Strangely enough, Robert E. Lee was a descendant of Thomas More.

Yeah the WWI era had some strange breeding going on there. It is strange to think that the current royal line of Windsor is actually the Saxe-Coburg and Gotha dynasty. They changed the name to Windsor due to anti-german sentiment in WWI. Of course, American "gentry" like the businessmen of the early 20th and late 18th centuryes had some "inbreeding" too. Everyone know that the Roosevelts intermarried quite a bit, and that Eleanor and FDR were cousins (they were both born Roosevelts). Some of those other blue bloods were just as bad.

SoM


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"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/24/2008 10:44:38 AM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

And nearly all of us are cousins to the Lees of Virginia. Dang... there were just too many of them! Richard Henry Lee was a patriot in the War, and his cousin Robert E. Lee (down the line) was a "patriot" of sorts in another Rebellion. Strangely enough, Robert E. Lee was a descendant of Thomas More.

Yeah the WWI era had some strange breeding going on there. It is strange to think that the current royal line of Windsor is actually the Saxe-Coburg and Gotha dynasty. They changed the name to Windsor due to anti-german sentiment in WWI. Of course, American "gentry" like the businessmen of the early 20th and late 18th centuryes had some "inbreeding" too. Everyone know that the Roosevelts intermarried quite a bit, and that Eleanor and FDR were cousins (they were both born Roosevelts). Some of those other blue bloods were just as bad.

SoM




Yep. IIRC somebody did the research and learned Patton was related to the Spencers, who were related to Mr Washington, etc.
It all depends on how far back one is willing to go, but eventually we are all related.

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RE: This is how it all started! - 8/24/2008 3:19:33 PM   
sullafelix

 

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They also changed the hamburgers name to salisbury steak.

I also think it odd the way that people think about time. To me the " ancient " world is just a hop and a skip away, and Napoleon is in current events. Think about it if you had 100 of  your direct antecedents ( male ) in one room, you would almost go back to the pyramids. Each family more or less depending upon lifespan. I'm using 30-40 as an avarage.

Last time I saw it in print 39 of the presidents were related in some way.  

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