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AI for MWiF - Persia

 
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AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/7/2008 8:13:38 PM   
peskpesk


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Persia setup AI

Perisa Forces
3-4 CAV, Res 3-2 MIL.

Persia has three basic setups:
* Capital defence: Is just as the name suggests a setup where the Persian
CAV is setup on Teheran or close to Teheran (if there is no paradrop or ground strike threat) moving to the capital the next impulse.

* Border defence: The CAV is setup as a blocking force against advance of land units, slowly retreating back to the capital and trying not to be trapped with surrounding ZOC.

* Oil well defence: The CAV is a setup adjacent or on an oil well to defend it against invasion/paradrop, keeping the hex for the Japanese .

Declaration of war
Given a USSR declaration of war with or without CW/FR/US and Japanese control the suggested reasoning for the AI could be as below.

Threats to guard against:
* Threat of paradrop on the capital
* Threat of paradrop on the oil wells
* Threat of invasion on the oil wells
* Threat of a two front land advance on the capital
* Threat of having the land unit flipped (when it might need to move)

Risk of paradrop on the capital:

IF the Weather is Storm or Blizzard the no risk of paradrop

IF any of the countries at war has a:

Organized ATR AND
itís in supply or can be put in supply AND
the ATR has range to Teheran or can be put in range of it AND
there is a organized PARA AND
itís in supply or can be put in supply AND
the PARA has range to ATR or can be put in range of it AND
the PARA and the ATR belongs to countries that can cooperate AND
the chance of a successful paradrop is > 20 %

THEN

There is risk of a paradrop on the capital


Risk of paradrop on the oil wells

IF the Weather is Storm or Blizzard the no risk of paradrop

IF any of the countries at war has a:

Organized ATR AND
itís in supply or can be put in supply AND
the ATR has range to any oil well or can be put in range of it AND
there is a organized PARA AND
itís in supply or can be put in supply AND
the PARA has range to ATR or can be put in range of it AND
the PARA and the ATR belongs to countries that can cooperate AND
the chance of a successful paradrop is > 20 %

THEN

There is risk of a paradrop on the oil wells


Risk of invasion on the oil wells

IF the Weather is not Fine or Rain then there is no risk of invasion

IF any of the countries at war has a:

Organized TRS/AMPH/SCS AND
A)
itís in supply or can be put in supply AND
it has range to Persian Gulf the AND
there is a organized LandUnit AND
the LandUnit itís in supply or can be put in supply AND
the LandUnit and the transporting unit can cooperate AND
the transporting unit can transport the LandUnit AND
the LandUnit can invade from the transporting unit AND
the LandUnit is on a costal hex Persian Gulf OR stack with the transporting unit
the chance of a successful invasion is > 20 %
B)
Itís in the Persian Gulf the AND
there is a organized LandUnit stack with the transporting unit AND
the LandUnit can invade from the transporting unit
the chance of a successful invasion is > 20 %

THEN

There is risk of an invasion on the oil wells


Risk of a two front land advance on the capital

IF any of the countries at war together has two of A, B or C.

A)
A Organized LandUnit close to the Pesian border AND
itís in USSR on the west side of the Caspian Sea AND
itís fast moving (reach the capital in two impulses) AND
itís in supply or can be put in supply or be reorganized
B)
A Organized LandUnit close to the Pesian border AND
itís s in USSR on the east side of the Caspian Sea AND
itís fast moving (reach the capital in two impulses) AND
itís in supply or can be put in supply or be reorganized
C)
A Organized LandUnit close to the Pesian border AND
itís in Iraq AND
itís fast moving (reach the capital in two impulses) AND
itís in supply or can be put in supply or be reorganized

THEN

There is risk of a two front land advance on the capital


Risk of having the land unit flipped

IF the Weather is Storm or Blizzard there is no risk of having the land unit flipped

IF the land unit is planed to be placed on the capital/oil well there is no risk when the unit is flipped.

IF any of the countries at war has A or B

A)
A organized air unit AND
the unit has tactical factors AND
itís in supply or can be put in supply AND
it has range to the hex where the land unit is planed to be placed AND
the chance of a successful ground strike is > 20 %
B)
A organized ART unit AND
itís in supply or can be put in supply AND
it has adjacent to the hex where the land unit is planed to be placed AND
the chance of a successful ground strike is > 20 %

THEN

There is risk of having the land unit flipped


When a setup is used
* The Oil well defence
Is consider to be used when C and any of A or B and any of D or E
A) Japan is at war with the conquering nation
B) Japan is prepared to declare war on the conquering nation
C) Japan plans to send units to Perisa immediately
D) Risk of paradrop on the oil wells
E) Risk of invasion on the oil wells

* The Border defence
Is consider to be used when A and B and C
A) No Risk pf paradrop on the capital
B) No Risk of a two front land advance on the capital
C) No Risk of having the land unit flipped

* The Capital defence
Is used if the Oil well defence or Border defence is not wanted.


< Message edited by peskpesk -- 8/7/2008 8:15:13 PM >


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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/7/2008 10:03:43 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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FYI




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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/7/2008 10:27:46 PM   
sajbalk


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Not sure how you would code it, but in any situation where the attacker has air, the sole defender is likley to be disrupted. That really gets rid of the border defense against Russia. In addition, whenever an ATR and PARA are available to drop uncontested into Persia adjacent to the capital, the border defense is out.

Like your logical progression in the description.



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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/8/2008 3:10:55 AM   
brian brian

 

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I read through the script once and pretty much agreed with the whole thing. But Steve brings up a hugely important point ... the map of Persia is completely different now.

Something to look at when setting up against a Russian DoW would be whether the Russians can trace supply in the Caspian. No Limited Overseas Supply option = coastal supply. LOS option + NO CP in the Caspian = no coastal supply. Some WiF players put the Russian CPs in other places. After thinking about that, then you might want to consider which HQ the Russians commit to the campaign. Zhukov, paying motorized movement rates, could only approach from a railhead at a slow pace. Timoshenko or Yeremenko would now be a better choice. Trying to approach from Turkmenistan (I think, anyway the east shore of the Caspian) might be even trickier logistically. You'd be surprised how many players could screw up the logistics they'd need, to the benefit of the Persians/Japanese. The goal of the set up should be to gain enough impulses to get to the next turn and gain the MIL reinforcement, and without a Para threat and a poor Russian force mix (slow units, no CAV), this is quite a bit more probable now, but still only against sub-par play. (So the Russian AI should build a PARA if it wants to try this campaign, and put a CP in the Caspian at set-up). If the Russians had no Paras, or poorly pre-positioned HQs, or no CAV on the point of the advance, I might consider setting up in the woods next to Isfahan for extra protection against the surprise impulse ground strike, and then race them back to Teheran; you could gain an impulse that way by defending in the hex in front of Teheran. (presuming no threat from the east shore of the Caspian). The more the Russians set up in their most advanced hexes ahead of time, the more time they give the Japanese to get ready themselves.

But as the script notes, what is important is the likelihood of Japanese intervention. They would now have at least one extra impulse to get their own tricky logistics set up.

Also, instead of 'Oil Wells', you would probably just want to consider defending Bandar Shapur. The Russians have somewhat limited options on where to base a PARA to threaten that hex.

Against a Japanese DoW, Bandar Shapur would be just about the best set up in any case.

(in reply to sajbalk)
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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/8/2008 3:33:59 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I read through the script once and pretty much agreed with the whole thing. But Steve brings up a hugely important point ... the map of Persia is completely different now.

Something to look at when setting up against a Russian DoW would be whether the Russians can trace supply in the Caspian. No Limited Overseas Supply option = coastal supply. LOS option + NO CP in the Caspian = no coastal supply. Some WiF players put the Russian CPs in other places. After thinking about that, then you might want to consider which HQ the Russians commit to the campaign. Zhukov, paying motorized movement rates, could only approach from a railhead at a slow pace. Timoshenko or Yeremenko would now be a better choice. Trying to approach from Turkmenistan (I think, anyway the east shore of the Caspian) might be even trickier logistically. You'd be surprised how many players could screw up the logistics they'd need, to the benefit of the Persians/Japanese. The goal of the set up should be to gain enough impulses to get to the next turn and gain the MIL reinforcement, and without a Para threat and a poor Russian force mix (slow units, no CAV), this is quite a bit more probable now, but still only against sub-par play. (So the Russian AI should build a PARA if it wants to try this campaign, and put a CP in the Caspian at set-up). If the Russians had no Paras, or poorly pre-positioned HQs, or no CAV on the point of the advance, I might consider setting up in the woods next to Isfahan for extra protection against the surprise impulse ground strike, and then race them back to Teheran; you could gain an impulse that way by defending in the hex in front of Teheran. (presuming no threat from the east shore of the Caspian). The more the Russians set up in their most advanced hexes ahead of time, the more time they give the Japanese to get ready themselves.

But as the script notes, what is important is the likelihood of Japanese intervention. They would now have at least one extra impulse to get their own tricky logistics set up.

Also, instead of 'Oil Wells', you would probably just want to consider defending Bandar Shapur. The Russians have somewhat limited options on where to base a PARA to threaten that hex.

Against a Japanese DoW, Bandar Shapur would be just about the best set up in any case.

All of these are very good points. Thanks.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/10/2008 8:32:55 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 1416
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
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* The Border defence A (Setup when attacked from West side of the Caspian Sea)




Note if railway movment and USSR has a fast moving cav, unit is setup on the hex south west





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< Message edited by peskpesk -- 8/10/2008 8:33:37 PM >


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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/10/2008 8:34:45 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 1416
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
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* The Border defence B (Setup when attacked from East side of the Caspian Sea)






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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/10/2008 8:39:25 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 1416
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
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* Oil well defence A




Note most USSR ATR has a range of 11

Oil well:
* Bushehr is safe from direct USSR paradrop
* South East of Bandar Shapur only from:
- Desert hex three hexes east Ashqabar
- Swamp hexes east of Caspian Sea during winter
- If HQ used as airbase
* North West of Bandar Shapur normal range




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< Message edited by peskpesk -- 8/10/2008 8:46:14 PM >


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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/10/2008 8:41:37 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 1416
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* Capital defence A






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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/12/2008 7:07:20 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 1416
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: online
Persia has one extreme setup
* Marauder defence: Is just as the name suggests a setup where the Persian CAV is set up to raise mayhem before Persia is beaten


* The Marauder defence
Is consider to be used when there is no pressing need for another setup or when the AI wants
and in both cases when:
G and one of
* A ,B, C and D
* E,F,G,H and I

-- Try to conquer Iraq,
A) Iraq is controlled/conquered by the Allies
B) There is no allied unit in Baghdad
C) the Persian CAV can reach Baghdad in one impulses
D) The axis major power controlling Persia is at war with allied major power controlling Iraq

--Try to step on facedown unit(s)
E) There is a disorganized allied fleet/air/Supply unit(s) with out a land unit guarding it
F) The Persian CAV can reach it in one impulse
H) The axis major power controlling Persia is at war with allied major power that controls the disorganized unit
I) The Persian CAV can enter the country/territory that the disorganized unit is located in

-- No way of stopping the CAV
G) The allies canít directly rail/move or transport a unit to the hex that the CAV want to reach and they canít block the CAVs movement and the chance of a successful ground strike on CAV it is less than 20 %



< Message edited by peskpesk -- 8/12/2008 10:38:26 PM >


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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/12/2008 10:33:26 PM   
peskpesk


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* The Marauder defence A




Ex Try to conquer Iraq, the way to Baghdad is open...


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< Message edited by peskpesk -- 8/12/2008 10:40:30 PM >


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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/12/2008 10:35:05 PM   
peskpesk


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* The Marauder defence B




Try to step on facedown unit(s) ex a facedown TRS in Basra.


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by peskpesk -- 8/12/2008 10:36:43 PM >


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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/15/2008 6:38:39 AM   
brian brian

 

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I like the Marauder defenses. Should be rare they would appear though, but you never know what opportunities your opponent will give you.

With the border defense NW of Teheran, setting up right on the Russian border would not be optimal I think. In bad weather that hex would be out of supply. Also, setting up right there lets the Russians possibly pin it right there with adjacent ART, or maybe just attack the unit without using up any land moves. I think a hex back SE would be better, just to use up Russian activity limits.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/15/2008 9:30:53 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I like the Marauder defenses. Should be rare they would appear though, but you never know what opportunities your opponent will give you.

With the border defense NW of Teheran, setting up right on the Russian border would not be optimal I think. In bad weather that hex would be out of supply. Also, setting up right there lets the Russians possibly pin it right there with adjacent ART, or maybe just attack the unit without using up any land moves. I think a hex back SE would be better, just to use up Russian activity limits.

If the USSR has a land unit that moves 6 (or even 5 in some cases) a NW border defense runs the real risk of the fast USSR unit going around the Persian unit and cutting it off from reaching Teheran. Those alpine hexsides make that easier than it would be if they were not there.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/15/2008 6:37:37 PM   
wfzimmerman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

Persia has one extreme setup
* Marauder defence: Is just as the name suggests a setup where the Persian CAV is set up to raise mayhem before Persia is beaten




Can the Persians split the CAV into two divisions?

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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/15/2008 6:50:25 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman


quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

Persia has one extreme setup
* Marauder defence: Is just as the name suggests a setup where the Persian CAV is set up to raise mayhem before Persia is beaten




Can the Persians split the CAV into two divisions?

Not in MWIF. Even using the optional rule Unlimited Divisions, I've imposed the subrule that only major power units can be broken down into/reformed from divisions.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/15/2008 6:53:06 PM   
Frederyck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman


quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

Persia has one extreme setup
* Marauder defence: Is just as the name suggests a setup where the Persian CAV is set up to raise mayhem before Persia is beaten


Can the Persians split the CAV into two divisions?


I'd say no, but even if it could be broken down that could only occur during the Production Stage, so it wouldn't be much of use during set-up.

(in reply to wfzimmerman)
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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/15/2008 8:07:47 PM   
brian brian

 

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That's an official rule in paper WiF now too. Only Major Powers may break-down / re-form. Although I didn't know why that errata was necessary. Maybe to keep the CW from making corps out of the Polish INF division or something.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/15/2008 8:48:25 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

That's an official rule in paper WiF now too. Only Major Powers may break-down / re-form. Although I didn't know why that errata was necessary. Maybe to keep the CW from making corps out of the Polish INF division or something.

Does this mean that Harry released the clarifications and corrections document (that Patrice and others have been working on for many months) for the WIFCon 2008? If so, is it accessible (say in PDF form) somewhere?

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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/15/2008 11:08:42 PM   
brian brian

 

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No, I read that in the official errata in the new Annual I think. No new info at WiFCon. Since very few minors (Spain, Turkey, Poland are the only ones I can think of) even have a division, I didn't see the need for it myself. In the real war corps were formed or broken with allied units at times.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/16/2008 12:12:18 AM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

That's an official rule in paper WiF now too. Only Major Powers may break-down / re-form. Although I didn't know why that errata was necessary. Maybe to keep the CW from making corps out of the Polish INF division or something.

Does this mean that Harry released the clarifications and corrections document (that Patrice and others have been working on for many months) for the WIFCon 2008? If so, is it accessible (say in PDF form) somewhere?

Harry said that the clarification / FAQ document was official and available now.
He also sent it to the WiF Con organizers, but he may have send it too late for them to print it and read it.
He said he will upload it to the ADG website as soon as possible, but this may be in a few weeks from now.
I asked Harry if I could upload it to the WiF Discussion list and French WiF discussion list egroups this morning, and he just replied to me a few minutes ago that I could go for it.
So I will be uploading this soon.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/16/2008 5:25:13 AM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

That's an official rule in paper WiF now too. Only Major Powers may break-down / re-form. Although I didn't know why that errata was necessary. Maybe to keep the CW from making corps out of the Polish INF division or something.

The problem grew from the interpretation that you could break down the axis minors.

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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/16/2008 8:03:14 AM   
Frederyck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
I asked Harry if I could upload it to the WiF Discussion list and French WiF discussion list egroups this morning, and he just replied to me a few minutes ago that I could go for it.
So I will be uploading this soon.


Will you be uploading it to the ftp-server here as well?

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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/16/2008 9:41:36 AM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Frederyck
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
I asked Harry if I could upload it to the WiF Discussion list and French WiF discussion list egroups this morning, and he just replied to me a few minutes ago that I could go for it.
So I will be uploading this soon.


Will you be uploading it to the ftp-server here as well?

Done.
I published it to the following places :
- WiF Discussion list egroup's file section.
- French WiF discussion list egroup's file section.
- Playtester's FTP, in a new folder named "Rules", in which I also uploaded the scenario book, the rulebook from ADG's website, and the latest errata from the 2008 Annual.

(in reply to Frederyck)
Post #: 24
RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 9/16/2008 10:53:45 PM   
peskpesk


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* The Marauder defence C




(Going for Baku, could happend after
* Western Allies declare was on Persia and Persia is aligned to GE that is at war with RU
* Western Allies declare was on Persia and Persia is aligned to JP that is at war with RU
* GE/IT has four corps in Iraq and Persia is aligned to GE/IT that also at war with RU
...)

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< Message edited by peskpesk -- 9/17/2008 6:08:45 AM >


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RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/24/2009 1:51:44 PM   
larssto

 

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First post - be kind

I think the Persian AIO may need an additional check - Caspian Sea invasion by the USSR. Otherwise anything but Capital Defence will be a near automatic defeat of Persia.

Since the new MWIF maps now have sea boxes in the Caspian, it should be possible to launch an invasion from there - right?

The USSR can setup their TRS in the Caspian together with a INF DIV. Assuming that they also setup a couple of units in the swamps North of Bandar Shah, the AIO would be likely to choose the "Border Defence B" option. (This is equally valid for the "Border Defence A" option.)

Assuming an S/O 39 DOW scenario, the USSR takes a combined in the first impulse and sails the TRS out with the DIV. In a subsequent clear impulse they DOW Persia, ground strike the CAV in Bandar Shah and then invade the Mountain hex NW of Teheran. Next impulse the DIV walks into Teheran.

I think the following check should be added:

Risk of invasion from the Caspian Sea

IF the Weather is not Fine then there is no risk of invasion (Rain will probably render a USSR DIV invasion impossible, as the TRS can only make it to the 3 Box)

IF USSR is among any of the countries at war AND has a:

Organized TRS/AMPH/SCS AND
A)
itís in supply or can be put in supply AND
it has range to Caspian Sea the AND
there is an organized LandUnit AND
the LandUnit itís in supply or can be put in supply AND
the LandUnit and the transporting unit can cooperate AND
the transporting unit can transport the LandUnit AND
the LandUnit can invade from the transporting unit AND
the LandUnit is on a costal hex Caspian Sea OR stack with the transporting unit
the chance of a successful invasion is > 20 %
B)
Itís in the Caspian Sea the AND
there is an organized LandUnit stack with the transporting unit AND
the LandUnit can invade from the transporting unit
the chance of a successful invasion is > 20 %

THEN

There is risk of an invasion on the Caspian Coast (This should then prompt the AIO to choose/weigh Capital Defence heavily, OR exclude the Border Defence options.)

I did not alter the % chance of an invasion, though if all the conditions are met I would think the chance to be higher than 20%.

I have just been catching up with all the developments here over the last few years and I am very impressed with both the current product and with the collaborative way it has been formed. Please keep it up.

Lars

(in reply to peskpesk)
Post #: 26
RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/24/2009 2:43:39 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 1416
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: larssto
...
Risk of invasion from the Caspian Sea
...

Lars



Good, I will add it.

_____________________________

"'Malta - The Thorn in Rommel's Side"

(in reply to larssto)
Post #: 27
RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/24/2009 4:20:35 PM   
Caquineur


Posts: 95
Joined: 4/21/2009
From: Aix en Provence, France, Europe
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: larssto
First post - be kind

...

Lars


Hei Lars !

Welcome to the forum !

And for your post, very interesting !

Alain (from Aix en Provence)



(in reply to larssto)
Post #: 28
RE: AI for MWiF - Persia - 8/24/2009 8:02:19 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7899
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larssto


First post - be kind

I think the Persian AIO may need an additional check - Caspian Sea invasion by the USSR. Otherwise anything but Capital Defence will be a near automatic defeat of Persia.

Since the new MWIF maps now have sea boxes in the Caspian, it should be possible to launch an invasion from there - right?

Welcome to the forum.

The Caspian had sea boxes in WiF FE too. They are on the border of the map.

(in reply to larssto)
Post #: 29
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