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What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames?

 
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What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 9:01:21 AM   
Gary Childress


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If I were going to learn a programming language with which to create a war game what would be the best language to use? What programming language are the majority of wargames created with? What programming language works best with wargames?

Thanks.

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 9:09:31 AM   
JudgeDredd


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From: Scotland
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I think C is the language of choice. Although there are quite a few languages you can use.

As far as I know C# can be used, as can Visual Basic (didn't I read somewhere Advanced Tactics written in VB??).

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 9:15:00 AM   
sterckxe


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From: Flanders
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
If I were going to learn a programming language with which to create a war game what would be the best language to use?


The one which you are most familiar with

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
What programming language are the majority of wargames created with?


C++, but a significant minority is using Delphi (AGEod, a couple of Matrix games, ...) with the remainder going for Visual Basic, Eiffel, C#, ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
What programming language works best with wargames?


All of them, even Java - today's hardware has no problem running 2D apps at all.

That said, if you're new to programming and don't mind the M$ tie-in : there's a free edition of the C# RAD platform which is pretty good and has everything you need.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 9:30:34 AM   
Gary Childress


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OK. So let's say I want to learn C++. Are there any inexpensive online colleges which others here can recommend which offer classes over the Internet?

Also whats the cheapest LEGAL way of getting C++?

Thanks.

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 7/16/2008 9:31:17 AM >


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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 9:41:18 AM   
Gary Childress


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Also, what is Visual C++? Is that the same as C++?

Thanks.

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 9:50:30 AM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
Also, what is Visual C++? Is that the same as C++?
Thanks.


Underneath : yes

Visual C++ however is the M$ RAD platform where a lot of stuff/widgets have already been precoded for you to use and allows you to do the "visual" layout of your forms.

Cheapest way to get it : depends on where you live and what you do (student editions, ...) - check the M$ website.

But you're really better of going for C# these days - just my two (euro)cents.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 9:57:36 AM   
Gary Childress


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I'm actually downloading Visual C++ Express from Microsoft now. It appears to be free, although I'm sure it's a lot more restricted in its abilities than the full Visual C++.

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 10:36:19 AM   
Terl


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Hi Gary, I am using the same program to learn C ++ (I am trying to learn it as well). There are some differences between the free (express editions) and the full Visual Studio but you will not miss them in the learning stages (some of the debugging tools and the express will not let you easily connect to SQL server databases, it does sql express though). For C and C++ you could also use Code Blocks (Free Get it here Get the version that comes with the gcc compiler). Another resource is NetBeans from Sun. It is mainly for Java but it does have C and C++ modules (though you would need a compiler I believe for C/C++)

Microsoft has some good beginning tutorials available and the MSDN library is great as well. I actually purchased a C++ book through Amazon to get me started, How to Program C++ , which is helping a great deal. It is pricey but I got it through one of the vendors for 1/2 the price. There are also lots and lots of web sites that can help get you started. I find the best way is to read my book and just program. The only way you get better at it is by doing it.

< Message edited by Terl -- 7/16/2008 10:39:21 AM >

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 2:23:36 PM   
Gary Childress


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I'm trying a tutorial for Visual C++. It appears that the Express version doesn't have a setup and deployment feature. Is it not possible to create setup files for programs created in Express?

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 2:28:44 PM   
JudgeDredd


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I was going to say...I think the express versions are purely for development and "learning". You are not allowed to make money from any applications you make with the express versions and I'm pretty sure that's why the deployment aspect isn't there.

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 2:44:14 PM   
Terl


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Sorry Gary, I forgot to list the deployment piece as one that is not in the express versions. They are good for learning programming and the development end though. I used my "stimulus check" to get a copy of Visual Studio - fun to convince the wife of that one...

Anyway, the express versions will make an exe file which you can distribute through other means. As for what Judge says about the licensing, I am not certain. I did not read it that closely as I used it just to learn and then got the full version.

Here's a free program to create setup files: Inno Setup

< Message edited by Terl -- 7/16/2008 2:49:23 PM >

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 2:49:35 PM   
Gary Childress


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How much does a full copy of Visual Studio run?

What is a compiler? I've seen "free compilers" for C++ but I take it that there is more to C++ than a compiler?

EDIT: So it sounds like I can learn programming with the express edition but I will need to get the full edition if I ever get to the point where I want to share or market programs?

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 7/16/2008 2:50:00 PM >


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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 2:56:22 PM   
Terl


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If you do not want to spend money, I would use code blocks (links above) with the gcc compiler. It costs nothing and works very well. It is a free download and free to use.

The MS express programs have the compiler with them, you need get nothing else. As for the full copy, mine was just under $700 (I got the pro version). There are some places on the net that advertise the educational licensed verson for ~ $160. They (most anyway) will ask for proof like a student id to sell it to you. If you have such, you could go for that BUT NOTE per the license at MS the license on the educational version is invalid after you are done with school. If you are serious about it and wish to use it commercially, it may be worth it to invest in the pro version. That is why I bought mine; I use it at work (already made a couple utility programs using VB) and at home while learning C++.

I edited a post above with a link to a program that would create setup files for you to use with your projects. The Express editions will make .exe files and all for you, it is just that it won't deploy them as you found in your tutorial.

quote:

EDIT: So it sounds like I can learn programming with the express edition but I will need to get the full edition if I ever get to the point where I want to share or market programs?


I believe so. Again, I am not certain of MS license on the Express, but Judge is in the software field so I think he may be correct in his guess. It tracks with what one would think of MS; that they would never give you something for free if you could make $ off it . Anyway, there are other avenues to save a buck and still develop and deploy your work.

< Message edited by Terl -- 7/16/2008 3:05:14 PM >

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 3:07:52 PM   
TonyE


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A mllion programmers, a million opinions

My two cents are that C++ is a good adventure but go open source if you can stand it.  Something like GCC (compiler) + Eclipse (IDE) + wxWidgets (buttons, lists, etc.) allows you to develop in pretty much the same code across Windows, Linux, and OS X.  The flexibility of being able to jump from the MS ship is nice, and the cross platform is really handy as well.  If your game runs natively on a Mac you instantly gain quite a few friends, and in this low volume business of wargames that might make a big difference in sales!

The sad thing is that the above configuration isn't easy to set up and there are few people to turn to for kind help.  So that's where one says, "learn the language essentials with the free MS tools, when you get the hang of it, go to a more advanced solution like the one above." 

What route do I take?  Well, I'm one of those wacky Delphi programmers at heart and I love the speed at which I can develop a program thanks to the work of component (add-ins, want a GIS system, grab www.tglobe.com, want any pretty control, go to www.tmssoftware.com, etc.).  Delphi for years was the only programming tool to really get RAD right (imho of course); now the MS .NET platforms do a good job but the components are much more expensive than the Delphi equivalents.  There is a slow moving but working open source port of Delphi called Lazarus (and a free limited version of Delphi called TurboDelphi) again allowing Linux and OS X development with one codebase.

For the record I detest .NET as Microsoft centric (yes mono exists but it doesn't keep up) but the idea of including so many useful libraries in the core language is impressive.

Eddy probably has it right for most, "The one which you are most familiar with ".





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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 3:23:20 PM   
RobertCrandall


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I use and recommend Delphi 2007 for game development. 

I'm not sure that any one platform is intrinsically better than any other any more - so whatever you are already best at is probably your best choice.  I like Delphi because I can get results so fast with it.  There are a ton of third party libraries out there so you don't have to reinvent the wheel for low level items.  You can focus pretty much on what makes your project a game and not get bogged down with the less fun stuff.

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 3:34:03 PM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

Underneath : yes

Visual C++ however is the M$ RAD platform where a lot of stuff/widgets have already been precoded for you to use and allows you to do the "visual" layout of your forms.

Cheapest way to get it : depends on where you live and what you do (student editions, ...) - check the M$ website.

But you're really better of going for C# these days - just my two (euro)cents.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



I agree with Eddy's comments. I do not think there is a "wrong" choice for a programming language. In the modern world, there are two main choices, c# (Microsoft) and java (not-a-microsoft). If you ever plan on doing anything with your programming skills other than writing your own game, then I would suggest one of these two as they are the most marketable. The syntaxtical differences between c++, c# and java are minumal, the main differences are in the "vendor supplied classes" which is one set of routines for the dotnet world and another for the java world. But the same basic capabilities exist in both worlds.



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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 3:57:59 PM   
bobogoboom


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there is always a wrong choice. i mean what if someone tried to program a game in php that would be a wrong choice or pascal that would also be a wrong choing.

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 4:23:45 PM   
TonyE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

there is always a wrong choice. i mean what if someone tried to program a game in php that would be a wrong choice or pascal that would also be a wrong choing.


I beg to differ. PHP can do some amazing things, including games (http://php.resourceindex.com/Complete_Scripts/Games/ has a few examples). There are some pretty solid PHP graphics libraries out there and in development. I'd rarely call it the best choice but wrong might be too strong of a characterization. Pascal is even less of a wrong choice when combined with DirectX and even better, Open GL (see http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/). I've done OpenGL with Lazarus (Delphi clone) but all of what I did and more can be done with FreePascal.



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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 8:02:56 PM   
Gary Childress


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OK. Here's my first game using Visual C# Express. Just send me $50.00 and I'll package it in a program and send it to you.

quote:

using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Linq;
using System.Text;

namespace ConsoleApplication1
{
class Program
{
static void Main(string[] args)
{
int number;
Console.WriteLine("Pick a number.");
number = int.Parse(Console.ReadLine());
if ((number < 8) && (number > 6))
Console.WriteLine("You win!");
else
if ((number > 7) || (number < 7))
Console.WriteLine("You lose!");


Console.ReadLine();

}
}
}


EDIT: Yes! I came up with this almost entirely on my own using a few sample lines of code!

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 7/16/2008 8:05:20 PM >


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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 8:41:12 PM   
bobogoboom


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyE


quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

there is always a wrong choice. i mean what if someone tried to program a game in php that would be a wrong choice or pascal that would also be a wrong choing.


I beg to differ. PHP can do some amazing things, including games (http://php.resourceindex.com/Complete_Scripts/Games/ has a few examples). There are some pretty solid PHP graphics libraries out there and in development. I'd rarely call it the best choice but wrong might be too strong of a characterization. Pascal is even less of a wrong choice when combined with DirectX and even better, Open GL (see http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/). I've done OpenGL with Lazarus (Delphi clone) but all of what I did and more can be done with FreePascal.



php is horrible as a programming languege. most programming langueges at least understand the concept of name space.

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 8:50:42 PM   
Punk Reaper


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Is Dark Basic suited to your needs......

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 8:58:43 PM   
TonyE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

php is horrible as a programming languege. most programming langueges at least understand the concept of name space.


I won't disagree with you there. Being a horrible language doesn't mean it is always the wrong choice though.

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HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 9:07:04 PM   
Zakhal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom
php is horrible as a programming languege. most programming langueges at least understand the concept of name space.


I dont really care if it has namespaces or not as long as its widely popular and people pay lots of money to you when you code with it.

Also if you really need it PHP5.3/PHP6 do seem to have namespaces.

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 9:19:47 PM   
Gary Childress


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OMG, I'm really cracking myself up now! I don't know what I did but I got this to work! (Kind of a loose patchwork of lines I picked up from various mini-scripts and incorporated into my own script.

Pick a number between 1 and 100 and if it matches a random number generated by the program it will say "You win!" if not then "You lose!".



quote:

using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Linq;
using System.Text;

namespace ConsoleApplication1
{
class Program
{
static void Main(string[] args)
{
int number;
Random RandomClass = new Random();
int RandomNumber = RandomClass.Next(1, 100);
Console.WriteLine("Pick a number.");
number = int.Parse(Console.ReadLine());
if ((number > RandomNumber) || (number < RandomNumber))
Console.WriteLine("You lose!");
else
Console.WriteLine("You win!");
Console.WriteLine("The Lucky Lotto number is:");
Console.WriteLine(RandomNumber);
Console.ReadLine();

}
}
}


Programming is pretty fun (until something doesn't work).






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 7/16/2008 9:22:27 PM >


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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 9:29:48 PM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

OK. So let's say I want to learn C++. Are there any inexpensive online colleges which others here can recommend which offer classes over the Internet?

College?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Also whats the cheapest LEGAL way of getting C++?

Bloodshed Dev C++.

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 9:36:15 PM   
Gary Childress


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What do you call them then? Online Universities?

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 10:23:46 PM   
Terl


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Have you tried picking up a second hand text book? I got one via Amazon and just work at my own pace at home and dead times at work. I find I learn better by reading and just trying to program something with what I have learned to date. The best way to get good at it is to just do it and keep trying. Just pick a modest goal and go for it.

There are some versions of basic that are made for game programming and are fairly easy to pick up as well (DarkBASIC and Blitz Basic). These are great to learn programming flows and you can actually make commercial quality games with them. There is also Emergence Basic which is quite good as well. If you mostly want to learn programming and another language may work for you, these might be worth checking out. DarkBASIC has quite an active community willing to advise and assist too.

There are a wealth of choices out there. If you just google for things like "C++ tutorials" or "learn C++" you can find a lot of resources too.

< Message edited by Terl -- 7/16/2008 10:24:48 PM >

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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 10:56:58 PM   
Gary Childress


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Thanks. I'll try to find an inexpensive text book online. Right now I'm just sort of stumbling through things but I find that I'm actually learning things in a goal oriented setting. First I set easy goals like a Lottery program or a random die rolling program (below). And then try to gather the resources necessary to complete them. I'm actually learning a little faster that way I think, rather than going page by page through a tutorial. But you are right a tutorial is next in line for me.

So now I've got my first program to resemble the random roll of a six sided die. What do you think? It's probably a fundamental baby step toward my first real wargame. Just give me a few more years.

quote:

using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Linq;
using System.Text;

namespace TestVisualC1
{
class Program
{
static void Main(string[] args)
{

Console.WriteLine("Fire when ready!");
Console.WriteLine("Hit enter key to fire");
Console.ReadLine();

Random RandomClass = new Random();
int RandomNumber = RandomClass.Next(1, 6);
if (RandomNumber > 4)
Console.WriteLine("Hit!");
else
Console.WriteLine("You missed!");
Console.WriteLine("The number generated was:");
Console.WriteLine(RandomNumber);
Console.ReadLine();

}
}
}









Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 7/16/2008 11:00:13 PM >


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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/16/2008 11:48:47 PM   
Gil R.


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Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

If I were going to learn a programming language with which to create a war game what would be the best language to use? What programming language are the majority of wargames created with? What programming language works best with wargames?




If you plan on making a game devoted to the Civil War or Napoleonic Wars that combines both a strategic and tactical level then I'd say that BASIC ADVANCED is definitely the way to go. For any other periods, go with C++ or something else.


< Message edited by Gil R. -- 7/16/2008 11:51:01 PM >


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RE: What's the Best Programming Language for Wargames? - 7/17/2008 12:12:45 AM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

What do you call them then? Online Universities?

IMO a paid online programming schools are a waste of money. You can learn all the needed thing from free tutorials. Also, there are whole sites/communities dedicated to gamemaking which may have some game creation orientated series of tutorials.

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