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How to get the best out of your IJN ships

 
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How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/1/2008 9:01:06 PM   
Miller


Posts: 1456
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		As a very experienced IJN player, I thought I would pass on my tips on getting the best out of the Jap navy.

1) Aircraft carriers

By far your most valuable assets, get as much use out of them as you can in 42 because by the middle of 43 they probably will be easy VPs for an experienced Allied player.

I tend to group them in groups of 2 CV plus a CVL per TF, usually matching pairs, Shokaku/Zuikaku/Shoho, Akagi/Kaga/Ryujo, Soryu/Hiryu/Zuiho, Junyo/Hiyo/Ryuho. I also throw in a Kongo class BB to divert a few of the attacking a/c, a CS within the slower speed CV TFs and then add DDs. I find about 10-12 ships per TF is adequate. Set the slowest speed TF with its destination and have the others follow. Thus you get maximum CAP protection for all your fleets whilst avoiding the airstrike co-ordination penalty. When the smaller CVEs arrive in late 42 I usually put a Zero sqd aboard to boost CAP.

Do not bother putting any CA or CL in a CV TF as they offer little in AA value compared to US cruisers. They are much more useful in surface combat fleets. The exception is the CL Oyodo which arrives in early 43, it has good AA and no torpedoes so is not much use in a surface fight.

When it comes to the actual CV battle itself, a lot is down to chance, but you can increase the odds in your favour:

Firstly you must spot the enemy carriers. Asign all your CS based floatplanes to naval search (Chitose and Chiyoda's complement should be more than enough). NEVER put any Kates on naval search, these are your main ship killers and you want every single one sent out to attack. Only use Vals on search if you are low on floatplanes.

Try to run a low % CAP until the day you expect action. A badly fatigued CAP performs much worse than a fresh one. As to overall CAP level for the day of action, it depends on how many fighters you have and what you expect the enemy to put up against you. Bare in mind though that you want as many of your precious high exp strike pilots to get through the CAP to attack, as many will not get a second chance, so they get a strong escort from me. Personally I usually run about 30% CAP....in the end no matter how many fighters you have over your carriers, some SBDs and TBFs are going to get through......

Early in the game you get 2 Rufe FF sqds. Put these aboard the CS Nisshin. It gives an extra 18 a/c on CAP, they are not as good as Zeros but every little helps!

Try and fight within range of a friendly airfield. Your airgroups are just as precious as their carrier..... if one is sunk the survivors of its air group can be disbanded into other groups to make up for losses elsewhere, keeping the overall exp of the group high.
Post #: 1
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/1/2008 9:28:00 PM   
Miller


Posts: 1456
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		2) Battleships

The IJN has 12 to play with. 2 Yamatos, 2 Nagatos, 4 Fusos and 4 Kongos. I will go over their strengths and weaknesses.

Yamato/Musashi - Usually perform well in surface combats and are immune to bombs. However, torpedoes are fatal. I have had Musashi sink after taking only two torpedo hits! Therefore, try to keep them out of range of bases that hold Avenger or Beaufort sqds.

Nagato/Mutsu - Again, I have seen these kick butt in surface combat but they are not bomb proof against 1000lb bombs.....most bounce but some will penetrate! Too slow for bombardment groups unless you are sure there is little threat from the air when retreating the next day.

Fuso/Yamashiro/Ise/Hyuga - Basically the same as the Nagatos but with 14" guns instead of 16".

Kongo/Haruna/Hiei/Kirishima - Speedy and very usefull early in the game for bombardment runs. However, I try to avoid putting them in SC TFs and prefer to have one in each CV TF. The reason being they tend to do poorly against US BB's....3 or 4 16" hits can cripple them. They are also vunerable to 8" rounds at close range. In CV TFs they attract some of the ordanace away from your precious flight decks and sometimes 1000lb bomb will bounce off them.

As to general BB tactics, I tend to operate them in pairs with the same size armament (16" in one TF, 14" in another etc). I may use 4 or even 6 together in one TF on a bombardment run, but only if I am not expecting serious opposition.

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 2
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/1/2008 9:59:01 PM   
Miller


Posts: 1456
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		3) Heavy Cruisers

IJN CAs are easily the best all round surface combat ships in UV. They have high exp crews and of course, the long lance torpedo. Early in the game they will kick the butt of an equivalent Allied cruiser. There are five classes:

Tone class(2) - A lot of IJN players use these as scout cruisers within a CV TF because they hold 5 floatplanes. Don't bother - they are much more useful in surface combat.

Mogami class(4) - Good all round and the fastest of all the CA classes.

Chokai class(4) - The best of the lot. They carry the most tropedo tubes and heaviest armour.

Nachi class(4) - Basically the same as the Chokai class but with noticably weaker armour.

Furutaka class(4) - The oldest so obviously the weakest. Less guns and TT and can take less damage. Still more than a match for early US CA's though.

A little more on the differences in armour. None of them can withstand a 1000lb bomb hit. However, all but the Furutaka class can defeat a 500lb bomb, depending on where it hits the ship.

Surface combat is more complicated. In general all are vunerable to 8" hits. 6" hits will bounce off the Tone, Mogami and Chokai classes unless it is point blank range (2000yds). The US CLs with 6" guns are deadly later in the game, so you don't want your older CA's taking on these guys!


4) Light Cruisers

The IJN CLs have one thing going for them - the LL torpedo. Their 5.5" guns are useless against anything bigger than a DD, although their armour will defeat any allied DD return fire. They are no use in CV TFs as they have no AA value (other than the modern Oyodo). The Agano class have 6" guns but they do not arrive till later in the game. The old Tenyru and Tatsuta with 21" torps are used as FT leaders.


Surface task force composition:

I usually find anywhere between 8 and 12 ships is the best number for a STF. I usually go 2 CA, 2 CL and 4 DD to 2 BB, 2 CA, 2 CL and 6 DD, depending on ship availability etc. Needless to say you want your most aggressive admirals in charge to make sure all those juicy torpedes are used up!

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 3
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/1/2008 10:25:22 PM   
Miller


Posts: 1456
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		5) Destroyers

I list below the classes and best uses:

Akitsuki - Good AA for Jap DD. They arrive later in the game and I use them to cover what is left of my carrier fleet.

Shimikaze - One off super destroyer with 15 torpedo tubes. Goes into a surface combat TF of course!

Yugumo - Very tough and has radar but weak AA - surface combat.

Kagero - As the Yugumo but without the radar - surface combat.

Akatsuki - A Fubuki class but with better depth charges - surface combat.

Shiratsyu - Best AA of all the DD's - carrier escort.

Hatsuharu - As the Shiratsyu - carrier escort.

Fubuki - Good all round DD - surface combat.

Mutsuki - Old but still has the LL torpedo and good AA - surface and/or escort.

Kamikaze - Has weaker torpoedes but good AA - carrier escort or fast transport.

Minekaze - Oldest of the lot. Shortest range so I usually use these only in the fast tranport role.


6) Other ships

The IJN gets about 10 or so APDs, which I normally use in FT fleets early in the game. Most of them have a good ASW rating so are usefull in a sub hunting role also.

The Japs are light on MSWs, although you wont have much need for them unless you are landing troops at a very southern Allied base.

PGs and PCs - Again you don't get many but they are useful convoy escorts and free up your DDs for fleet work. Not much use as ASW vessels.

AVs - You get 4 of these, two hold 12 float planes each and the other two 8 each. These can be very useful for finishing off damaged transports behind enemy lines, as well as for scouting ahead of your main CV fleets. They will die however if they run into enemy CVs.....

AOs and TKs - These are very precious - try not to lose them early as you dont get many. Normal transports can carry fuel but at only half the rate of these babies.

Transports - 3000 cap ones shuttle between Truk and Rabual/Shortlands only. 2000 cap ones are my main troop carrying ships. 1000 cap ones I send to the front line bases with supplies in small TFs. Barges are an excellent way of keeping the front lines supplied as well.

Subs - Jap subs are good at finishing off damaged warships, but they die like flies later in the same. I-121 through to I-124 are minelaying subs and should be used as such.

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 4
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/1/2008 10:54:06 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 3976
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		My advice is to print these posts and use them as your UV IJN bible as Paul knows what he's talking about.

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I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
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(in reply to Miller)
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RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/1/2008 11:12:15 PM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1082
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		fantastic guide, miller.a lot of things inside, which noobs like me did and do wrong like putting the CA in CV-TF.

now all i need are some PBEM-oppenents to put the theory into praxis.

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 6
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/2/2008 2:39:41 AM   
Miller


Posts: 1456
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

fantastic guide, miller.a lot of things inside, which noobs like me did and do wrong like putting the CA in CV-TF.

now all i need are some PBEM-oppenents to put the theory into praxis.



Glad to be of help.

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 7
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/2/2008 2:40:49 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 3156
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

... Early in the game you get 2 Rufe FF sqds. Put these aboard the CS Nisshin. It gives an extra 18 a/c on CAP, they are not as good as Zeros but every little helps!


Would you set them at 6,000 to counter torpedo planes, or 11,000 vs. the Cats?

_____________________________

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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 8
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/2/2008 2:44:59 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 3156
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

... now all i need are some PBEM-oppenents to put the theory into praxis.


As you lost your last (tempermental) opponent? I'm only playing one PBEM game now and could fit in another; I usually play historical scenarios, which is beneficial for the inexperienced Allied player as the Midway KB is kaput.


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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 9
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/2/2008 3:36:20 PM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1082
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		i think the kates/avengers seem to be the real ship killers. in my opinion, vals are not effective like kates against warships but they do well against unarmed targets (AP and so).

i would try everything to keep as much kates/avengers as i can away from my flattops.

ah joe..you have post.


< Message edited by bigbaba -- 6/2/2008 4:32:41 PM >

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 10
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/2/2008 4:22:51 PM   
Miller


Posts: 1456
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

... Early in the game you get 2 Rufe FF sqds. Put these aboard the CS Nisshin. It gives an extra 18 a/c on CAP, they are not as good as Zeros but every little helps!


Would you set them at 6,000 to counter torpedo planes, or 11,000 vs. the Cats?


I may be wrong but I believe altitude settings for fighters make little difference. Obviously I would not put them at 1000ft, I usually vary the CAP between 10-15k. As US SBDs are the main threat and Rufes are inferior to Zeros in climb I would set them at DB altitude (usually 15000ft).

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 11
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/2/2008 5:29:54 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 4368
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: Northern Rockies
Status: offline 		A couple of notes. If as an allied player I noticed that you were putting LB, carrier capable, A6Ms on your CV/CVL/CVEs, then I would put USMC Corsairs on mine to counter.

Altitude does matter and I like to have CAP at various altitudes. I tend to them at 8000, 12000, and 20000.

_____________________________



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(in reply to Miller)
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RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/2/2008 5:44:36 PM   
Miller


Posts: 1456
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From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

A couple of notes. If as an allied player I noticed that you were putting LB, carrier capable, A6Ms on your CV/CVL/CVEs, then I would put USMC Corsairs on mine to counter.

Altitude does matter and I like to have CAP at various altitudes. I tend to them at 8000, 12000, and 20000.


I only advocate putting land based Zeros on CVEs, simply because they do not come with a generic airgroup. Of course if you have an airgroup from a damaged or sunk carrier then by all means put them on board ahead of a land based unit.

I will take your word on the altitude settings, they dont really bother me that much.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 13
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/12/2008 5:34:24 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 3156
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: online 		Anyone for tips for the Allied ships, or is it not really that necessary?

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"The Angel of Okinawa"

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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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Post #: 14
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/12/2008 11:00:01 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 1900
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Status: offline 		This is a good read Miller I printed it out for future reference, Thanks!!!!

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RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/13/2008 1:36:31 AM   
RGIJN


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From: far away from battlefield :-(
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

i think the kates/avengers seem to be the real ship killers. in my opinion, vals are not effective like kates against warships but they do well against unarmed targets (AP and so).




Keep in mind the allied SBDs, as they are true killers indeed. Even more so with the 1000lbs bomb carried on short/medium range missions. Though as not as lethal as the japanese Nakajima B5N KATE-borne fishes, they can ruin your day too! That´s another reason you´re advised to keep a certain hex distance when clashing with the US carrier force. (besides the allied torpedo planes you should try to ban from the battle) If you (IJN) are very lucky you can even fight a carrier confrontation without F4F escorts against your KB´s massive coordinated strike. Though the KATE´s will be armed with bombs instead of their usual torpedo load then...

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 16
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/14/2008 1:56:39 PM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
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From: A Sand Road
Status: offline
quote:

Yugumo - Very tough and has radar but weak AA - surface combat.


A Very important Japanese destroyer class despite its low combat values. It´s best to have one or two in Japanese CV task forces and night surface combat forces for the radar effects. (see rule book)

Makes an effective U boat hunter for the same reason when grouped with other destroyers too.

< Message edited by Ike99 -- 6/14/2008 2:00:28 PM >

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 17
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/15/2008 2:51:53 AM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1082
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From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		the IJN CAP gets the "radar-bonus", when you have 1-2 of this DD in your CV-TF?

intresting thing.

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 18
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/15/2008 2:16:31 PM   
Ike99


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quote:

the IJN CAP gets the "radar-bonus", when you have 1-2 of this DD in your CV-TF?

intresting thing.


Yes, this is the only Japanese ship class with radar IIRC.

I tend to avoid the very early game carrier clash if possible until the Yugumo class DD´s come into the game. I think around turn 30.

If one is planning on fighting a carrier battle with the Allies, IMHO it is best to have two Yugumo class DD´s in your CV TF along with your very high rated AA escort ships.

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 19
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/15/2008 6:31:08 PM   
RGIJN


Posts: 1057
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From: far away from battlefield :-(
Status: offline 		IJN CL KUKA and KITAKAMI classes are fitted with type 13 radar sets each. And CVE SHINYO & KAIYO have type 21 onboard. However, KITAKAMI class cruisers will arrive very late in the game - if ever. And the two CVE classes aren´t available in Sc17 and Sc19 camapigns.

Historically, on BB ISE a Type 21 set was installed by May 1942. And IIRC one of the japanese fleet carriers also has radar by 1942 already. I think it was SHOKAKU. Unfortunately you don´t get any upgrades as japanese player when sending ships back to the homeland.

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 20
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/16/2008 3:38:57 PM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
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quote:

IJN CL KUKA and KITAKAMI classes are fitted with type 13 radar sets each. And CVE SHINYO & KAIYO have type 21 onboard. However, KITAKAMI class cruisers will arrive very late in the game - if ever. And the two CVE classes aren´t available in Sc17 and Sc19 camapigns.

Historically, on BB ISE a Type 21 set was installed by May 1942. And IIRC one of the japanese fleet carriers also has radar by 1942 already. I think it was SHOKAKU. Unfortunately you don´t get any upgrades as japanese player when sending ships back to the homeland.


Ahhh yeah, sounds like the CF makers need to know this.

(in reply to RGIJN)
Post #: 21
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/18/2008 12:28:35 AM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3612
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		I'm probably remembering this from combinedfleet.com but the earliest radars installed on IJN carriers (Taiyo? Unyo?) was in 43. I don't remember the Shokaku or Zuikaku ever having radar installed.

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 22
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 6/22/2008 7:22:09 AM   
Hornblower


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From: New York'er relocated to Chicago
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RGIJN

IJN CL KUKA and KITAKAMI classes are fitted with type 13 radar sets each. And CVE SHINYO & KAIYO have type 21 onboard. However, KITAKAMI class cruisers will arrive very late in the game - if ever. And the two CVE classes aren´t available in Sc17 and Sc19 camapigns.

Historically, on BB ISE a Type 21 set was installed by May 1942. And IIRC one of the japanese fleet carriers also has radar by 1942 already. I think it was SHOKAKU. Unfortunately you don´t get any upgrades as japanese player when sending ships back to the homeland.


correct

(in reply to RGIJN)
Post #: 23
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 10/23/2008 12:40:28 PM   
xj900uk

 

Posts: 1218
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Status: offline 		Which are the best IJN DD's or PC's for forming ASW flotilla's??

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 24
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 10/23/2008 4:23:33 PM   
Miller


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xj900uk

Which are the best IJN DD's or PC's for forming ASW flotilla's??


Any ship with type 95 DC's are useful, however, sinking one sub a month on average is a good result for the IJN!

(in reply to xj900uk)
Post #: 25
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 10/23/2008 5:14:48 PM   
Ike99


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quote:

Which are the best IJN DD's or PC's for forming ASW flotilla's??


One Yugumo class destroyer (Radar) with Shimakaze and
Akitsuki class destroyers. (Type 95 Depth Charges)

Add a AV with float planes on ASW patrol if you wish.

Patrol boats are almost useless against submarines except in coastal hexes because of their shallow exploding depth charge.

Best way to look for ASW vessels is the depth of their depth charges and compare this to the diving depth of Allied submarines.


(in reply to xj900uk)
Post #: 26
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 10/24/2008 9:58:45 AM   
xj900uk

 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the tip, Ike.
One question about ASW patrol planes in general - what height should you set them on? I usually set something slow flying at either 100' or 1000' height but I've noticed that often my general search planes (which can be flying at anything between 6000-10000 or higher have been known to automatically attack submarines if they spot them, even if they don't seem to be that well equipped to deal with them.
The other day I had an unarmed F5 Lightning attacking a Jap sub (I presume it was on the surface) even though it is completely unarmed and on naval search. Needless to say the sub wasn't damaged at all.
And before that I had a PBY on ASW at 1000' managing to shoot down a Jap search plane!!

< Message edited by xj900uk -- 10/24/2008 10:00:20 AM >

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 27
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 10/24/2008 6:47:48 PM   
Ike99


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quote:

One question about ASW patrol planes in general - what height should you set them on? I usually set something slow flying at either 100' or 1000' height but I've noticed that often my general search planes (which can be flying at anything between 6000-10000 or higher have been known to automatically attack submarines if they spot them, even if they don't seem to be that well equipped to deal with them.


That´s been debated a few times, in truth I don´t think anyone knows what the best altitude is, I set mine at 100´ and 6´000.

I haven´t seen much of a difference.

(in reply to xj900uk)
Post #: 28
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 10/24/2008 6:58:42 PM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1082
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From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		i have my ASW planes at 1000ft. some would say 100 is better but (like ike) i dont see much difference in the results here.

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 29
RE: How to get the best out of your IJN ships - 10/27/2008 10:53:02 AM   
xj900uk

 

Posts: 1218
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for the advice. I've noticed that planes on search mode often will attack subs (presumably ones on the surface) and sometimes even damage/sink them. I wonder if planes set on ASW sometimes co-ordinate with my hunter-killer flotilla's of DD's and PC's/SC's to make them more effective - certainly that was true regarding the USN later in the war but I doubt the IJN managed such a high level of co-ordination (considering how low a priority the Japanese even gave to ASW operations until it was far too late!)

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 30
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