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Artillery question... - 5/2/2008 8:22:04 PM   
Jim_H


Posts: 875
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: West Yorkshire, England
Status: offline 		Hi,

After playing the tutorial a few times (love it!), I've seen arty hit (or seem to anyway) one or both of the Russian held buildings. Considering the buildings aren't destructible yet, does a direct hit have any effect on the troops inside? No big, I just wondered.

Thank you kindly,
Jim

_____________________________

2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.
Post #: 1
RE: Artillery question... - 5/2/2008 8:34:35 PM   
Rick

 

Posts: 11600
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

Hi,

After playing the tutorial a few times (love it!), I've seen arty hit (or seem to anyway) one or both of the Russian held buildings. Considering the buildings aren't destructible yet, does a direct hit have any effect on the troops inside? No big, I just wondered.

Thank you kindly,
Jim


Jim - p55 in manual (footnote below the accuracy modifer table) - targets in blds or ruins attacked with HE have 20% chance per HE hit to have their FP modifier set to zero for that shot to model a penetrating HE hit exploding inside of building such that it wouldn't provide cover.

EDIT (also - I think the column headers in the table on that page should be Firepower modifier rather than accuracy modifier - since accuracy modifer table is on previous pages -p53-).



Rick


< Message edited by Rick -- 5/2/2008 8:38:36 PM >

(in reply to Jim_H)
Post #: 2
RE: Artillery question... - 5/2/2008 8:47:53 PM   
Jim_H


Posts: 875
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: West Yorkshire, England
Status: offline 		Doh, sorry I should have checked the manual more before posting. My bad. Thanks Rick 

_____________________________

2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.

(in reply to Rick)
Post #: 3
RE: Artillery question... - 5/2/2008 8:58:24 PM   
Rick

 

Posts: 11600
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline

No problem - Footnotes are easy to skip over - in looking for the answer page reference I skipped over it twice - I only found it because I know I'd seen it *somewhere* in manual.

Rick



(in reply to Jim_H)
Post #: 4
RE: Artillery question... - 5/2/2008 9:03:31 PM   
Jim_H


Posts: 875
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: West Yorkshire, England
Status: offline 		I'm waiting for the printed copy to arrive as I find pdf's a pain sometimes. Even so, I'd probably still have missed it hehe. Thanks again 

_____________________________

2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.

(in reply to Rick)
Post #: 5
RE: Artillery question... - 5/2/2008 11:39:44 PM   
Romeo13

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 4/18/2008
Status: offline 		On Artillery... is there anyway to fire an OPEN Sheaf and have it land in a pattern you want?

Sometimes it lands horizontaly to the battle line... sometimes verticly (which sucks)... and I have not figured out how to predict which until you lay that first barrage...

(in reply to Jim_H)
Post #: 6
RE: Artillery question... - 5/3/2008 12:28:44 AM   
WhiteOwl

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Romeo - no there isn't a way to control this yet, or even to know in advance what the fall pattern is. This is really annoying because you cannot re-plot your spotting command even before you actually play the turn, so you're stuck with what you plotted and at best will get control back in three turns (1 to cancel, 2 to cool down). Good part though, is that Erik acknowledged that this is a problem and will have it fixed in the future. Whether that is a patch or a release I don't know, but since they are doing a good job coming out with new titles and back-updating the features to the previous ones, I'm happy with that response.

(in reply to Romeo13)
Post #: 7
RE: Artillery question... - 5/3/2008 12:47:06 AM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2800
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline 		Hopefully the artillery targeting issues are fixed in a patch.

I don't know how many times I called an open sheaf smoke mission in and it runs straight down the map instead of perpendicular to my aim. What a waste.

(in reply to WhiteOwl)
Post #: 8
RE: Artillery question... - 5/3/2008 6:39:37 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 10238
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Sometimes I get one artillery targeting crosshairs, sometimes two and once I even got four.

What is the difference? They were all open sheaf and in one case they were the same guns firing.

Good Hunting.

MR

(in reply to NefariousKoel)
Post #: 9
RE: Artillery question... - 5/3/2008 10:09:57 AM   
Mobius


Posts: 8729
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
Sometimes I get one artillery targeting crosshairs, sometimes two and once I even got four.
What is the difference? They were all open sheaf and in one case they were the same guns firing.
It's always a surprise.
I usually make smoke with the smallest guns and HE with the larger since smoke is all the same size but the bigger the gun the more the killpower.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 10
RE: Artillery question... - 5/3/2008 2:26:28 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 31363
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
Sometimes I get one artillery targeting crosshairs, sometimes two and once I even got four.
What is the difference? They were all open sheaf and in one case they were the same guns firing.


Should always be the same for Open Sheaf and the same battery, unless some ended up targeted off-map. When you pull up Spot Indirect Fire, the number in parentheses next to each artillery battery is the number of "tubes". If you use an Open Sheaf, that will be how many target markers are spread out, one next to the other based on the "box" size of each. If you use Closed Sheaf, they all target the same point and concentrate fire within one box.


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development and Business Relations


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 11
RE: Artillery question... - 5/3/2008 3:55:34 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 10238
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
Sometimes I get one artillery targeting crosshairs, sometimes two and once I even got four.
What is the difference? They were all open sheaf and in one case they were the same guns firing.


Should always be the same for Open Sheaf and the same battery, unless some ended up targeted off-map. When you pull up Spot Indirect Fire, the number in parentheses next to each artillery battery is the number of "tubes". If you use an Open Sheaf, that will be how many target markers are spread out, one next to the other based on the "box" size of each. If you use Closed Sheaf, they all target the same point and concentrate fire within one box.



So, at some point I selected Open Sheaf?

Good Hunting.

MR

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 12
RE: Artillery question... - 5/3/2008 3:58:11 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 10238
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
Sometimes I get one artillery targeting crosshairs, sometimes two and once I even got four.
What is the difference? They were all open sheaf and in one case they were the same guns firing.
It's always a surprise.
I usually make smoke with the smallest guns and HE with the larger since smoke is all the same size but the bigger the gun the more the killpower.




Why would all smoke results be the same?

An 81mm mortar round doesn't put out the same amount of smoke as a 150mm artillery shell. The infantry held smoke grenades shouldn't put out near as much smoke as artillery delivered smoke either.

I can see where the artillery has been abstracted in several ways and this may be one of those.

Good Hunting.

MR

(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 13
RE: Artillery question... - 5/3/2008 4:49:52 PM   
Mobius


Posts: 8729
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
Sometimes I get one artillery targeting crosshairs, sometimes two and once I even got four.
What is the difference? They were all open sheaf and in one case they were the same guns firing.
It's always a surprise.
I usually make smoke with the smallest guns and HE with the larger since smoke is all the same size but the bigger the gun the more the killpower.

Why would all smoke results be the same?
An 81mm mortar round doesn't put out the same amount of smoke as a 150mm artillery shell. The infantry held smoke grenades shouldn't put out near as much smoke as artillery delivered smoke either.
I can see where the artillery has been abstracted in several ways and this may be one of those.
Yes an abstraction. And maybe you are in reality getting more small shells/grenades to combine for the same effect as one large smoke round.

Incidently maybe a year ago I posted a link to Youtube clip of a SturmTiger firing on a building. In that clip you can see the German infantry rushing toward the building behind smoke screens.


< Message edited by Mobius -- 5/3/2008 4:50:42 PM >

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 14
RE: Artillery question... - 5/3/2008 4:56:00 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 10238
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
Sometimes I get one artillery targeting crosshairs, sometimes two and once I even got four.
What is the difference? They were all open sheaf and in one case they were the same guns firing.
It's always a surprise.
I usually make smoke with the smallest guns and HE with the larger since smoke is all the same size but the bigger the gun the more the killpower.

Why would all smoke results be the same?
An 81mm mortar round doesn't put out the same amount of smoke as a 150mm artillery shell. The infantry held smoke grenades shouldn't put out near as much smoke as artillery delivered smoke either.
I can see where the artillery has been abstracted in several ways and this may be one of those.
Yes an abstraction. And maybe you are in reality getting more small shells/grenades to combine for the same effect as one large smoke round.

Incidently maybe a year ago I posted a link to Youtube clip of a SturmTiger firing on a building. In that clip you can see the German infantry rushing toward the building behind smoke screens.



At the beginning of the war smoke wasn't so common except in larger set battles. As the war went on more and more smoke was introduced into the combatants arsenals.

What you can't see you can't hit.

What you can hit you can kill.

High value resources like a Sturmtiger would have all the available support they could get it. That would obviously include smoke.

Good Hunting.

MR

(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 15
RE: Artillery question... - 5/4/2008 1:04:29 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		I believe that artillery smoke was part and parcel of blitzkrieg.  Massive amounts of smoke and HE to isolate the schwerpunkt part of the battlefield from the flanks.... but this is much larger operations than we have here. 

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 16
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