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is full speed dangerous for flooded ship?

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
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is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/27/2008 7:37:02 PM   
qwetry


Posts: 44
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Sicily, Italy
Status: offline 		my CVs are very damaged(saratoga sys 54 flt 67 fires 4;lexington 79-54-14),they are coming back home,but 5 hexs at 6 knots are too many...



can i keep them at full speed?flooding is about same(or more?) of the previous turn but the kido butai is near and could find my CVs...


home is size dock 2,is it too little to reduce flooding?




< Message edited by qwetry -- 4/27/2008 7:45:20 PM >

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/27/2008 7:51:01 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2394
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		I personally never bother with speed settings for damaged ships, I personally think damage control it just a diceroll depending on nationality.

Others on this forum think it does matter, but I never saw a test which showed that it DOES matter.   

At 6 knots, you move a single hex a day, and when you already have so much damage, it does not matter if you might get some more damage by speeding a bit because if the KB catches you with even a single kate squadron, you're toast ......

btw.
Allied damage controll will most likely save both your CV's once you get them to a port.

It's good to ALWAYS have an AR or 2 standing by in Noumea or near any other battlefield, just in case...    

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/27/2008 8:05:51 PM   
Czert

 

Posts: 255
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline 		Oh yeah, this allways angering me - allies allways save damaged ship which is for japanese ship terminal.

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/27/2008 8:54:59 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


Posts: 2699
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		I managed to save the Boise in my game with Jumper, despite the fact that she had 99 sys, 75 flt and 28 fires right after the attack.

US damage control FTW!

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/27/2008 9:32:38 PM   
Arkady


Posts: 1215
Joined: 5/31/2002
From: 27th Penal Battalion
Status: offline 		fast speed setting increase chance for additional SYS damage (but never increase SYS 99, only after effect of fire/float can do it)

I have no proof for FLT/FIRE damage increase from fast speed...


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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/27/2008 10:43:41 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12069
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		If your ships have heavy float damage, setting them to cruise is very important. The other 2 choices (full especially) will increase float damage.

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/27/2008 10:59:49 PM   
qwetry


Posts: 44
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Sicily, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

If your ships have heavy float damage, setting them to cruise is very important. The other 2 choices (full especially) will increase float damage.


are you sure?


now i'm confused





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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/27/2008 11:08:33 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22515
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

If your ships have heavy float damage, setting them to cruise is very important. The other 2 choices (full especially) will increase float damage.


No, it doesn't - according to one (now departed dev) - and from the experiments i've tried, it makes no difference - it floods the same amount each turn, so you are better off going at full speed.

EDIT: Of course players will remember visibly when damage INCREASES when they order max speed... and put it down to good damage control when it doesn't.

My experiments involved experimental learning games against the AI - get your saved game where a ship is severely damaged. Try running the turn where the ship runs at top speed, reboot, take the original saved turn and run the ship at cruise.

There wasn't any difference in the numerous times i tried it... the only thing that seems to make a difference (in flooding) was the weather: bad weather (thunderstorms) gave worse flooding. (Weather sometimes can vary in saved games depending on the die roll).

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 4/27/2008 11:15:17 PM >

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/27/2008 11:21:08 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12069
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		I stand corrected. Go with Bob's statement here. He is much better versed in this game's mechanics than I am.

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/27/2008 11:38:50 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22515
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

I stand corrected. Go with Bob's statement here. He is much better versed in this game's mechanics than I am.


Well, all these experiments were conducted a while ago... it is SLIGHTLY possible that something changed in the game that affected damage, etc., and they didn't know and/or didn't tell us about it... these particular experiments are easy to repeat, though, if you have an AI game going (i don't at the moment).

However, from what i've seen in the more recent games, the behavior does NOT seem to have changed.

If someone conducts experiments and gets some more results (yea or nay) let us know.

Lastly, i'll point out that in some cases it makes no difference at all, since in really badly damaged ships, the cruise speed and the max speed are exactly the same (1 hex/pulse).

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Post #: 10
RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/28/2008 12:55:24 AM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2394
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		As I said  People tend to disagree a bit on this issue, but setting your ships to full speed will most likely NOT  increase their chance of sinking sooner...

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/28/2008 12:55:39 AM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2394
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		As I said  People tend to disagree a bit on this issue, but setting your ships to full speed will most likely NOT  increase their chance of sinking sooner...



By the way, HOW LONG DO WE ALREADY HAVE ACCES TO THESE NEW SMILEYS ????

< Message edited by wild_Willie2 -- 4/28/2008 12:57:03 AM >

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In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/28/2008 1:01:32 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22515
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

As I said People tend to disagree a bit on this issue, but setting your ships to full speed will most likely NOT increase their chance of sinking sooner...



By the way, HOW LONG DO WE ALREADY HAVE ACCES TO THESE NEW SMILEYS ????


What new smileys? Like the "scared" one you just posted?? They've been here over a year, iirc.

EDIT - i just checked Thread II - some of the "new smileys" were being posted back in Jan 2006...

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 4/28/2008 1:07:17 AM >

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/28/2008 3:13:10 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12069
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

I stand corrected. Go with Bob's statement here. He is much better versed in this game's mechanics than I am.


Well, all these experiments were conducted a while ago... it is SLIGHTLY possible that something changed in the game that affected damage, etc., and they didn't know and/or didn't tell us about it... these particular experiments are easy to repeat, though, if you have an AI game going (i don't at the moment).

However, from what i've seen in the more recent games, the behavior does NOT seem to have changed.

If someone conducts experiments and gets some more results (yea or nay) let us know.

Lastly, i'll point out that in some cases it makes no difference at all, since in really badly damaged ships, the cruise speed and the max speed are exactly the same (1 hex/pulse).


I have an AI game going at the moment. I will run some experiments. Give me until tomorrow.

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/28/2008 3:22:19 AM   
Minedog

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 1/13/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: qwetry

home is size dock 2,is it too little to reduce flooding?



I can actually answer this one.

Size 2 is OK. I currently have HMS Repulse sitting in Amboina (Size 2) and in 2-3 days has worked Flooding damage down from 72 to 56. Looks like I'll make it back to Darwin after all!

One of the hidden joys of the game, watching the British battle fleet take apart a Jap troop convoy, even if the Betty payback is a bitch..

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/28/2008 5:01:30 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 6227
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		I've also noticed that even with Allied Damage control switched off the allied ships are much more likely to survive damage than Japanese ships. In my current game with Saso, he's mananaged to put 90+ flooding and 70+ system damage on 2 carriers and a battleship, and none of them have sunk. I tend to agree with the poster who said it seems to be just a dice roll that decides it.


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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/29/2008 8:54:49 PM   
qwetry


Posts: 44
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Sicily, Italy
Status: offline 		a day has passed and now my CVs now are more flood damaged...

the fire is ceased but: saratoga flt 74 ; lexington flt 62


only 3 hexs remain to dock(size 2),but i'm very worried



are you sure full speed doesn't increase flood damage?

< Message edited by qwetry -- 4/29/2008 9:18:27 PM >

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/29/2008 9:09:21 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 14610
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		to answer the original question - absolutely - IRL and in game terms.

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/29/2008 9:31:21 PM   
qwetry


Posts: 44
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Sicily, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

to answer the original question - absolutely - IRL and in game terms.


what means IRL?


sorry for my bad english


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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/29/2008 9:33:25 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22515
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

to answer the original question - absolutely - IRL and in game terms.

Not from my experiments - still awaiting the re-test under 1.804.

Also, Frag stated that the code did NOT do this.

Of course, in real life (IRL) things are not the same - but then again, ships don't burn for a week, either.

EDIT: Hopefully, in any test, the tester will:

1) remember to reboot between running a turn result (otherwise things will be wonky); and
2) remember to take WEATHER into account (a weather roll could give different results between two consecutive executions of the same turn, although it usually stays the same.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 4/29/2008 9:37:20 PM >

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/30/2008 12:21:56 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: qwetry

a day has passed and now my CVs now are more flood damaged...

the fire is ceased but: saratoga flt 74 ; lexington flt 62


only 3 hexs remain to dock(size 2),but i'm very worried



are you sure full speed doesn't increase flood damage?



While it seems reasonable that flank speed would increase flotation damage IRL, in the game we have no definite evidence that it does so. The increase that you see in this case is mainly due to the effects of fighting the fires - which definitely increases the flooding on a ship.

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/30/2008 12:26:58 AM   
Tophat1812

 

Posts: 1459
Joined: 1/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay


quote:

ORIGINAL: qwetry

a day has passed and now my CVs now are more flood damaged...

the fire is ceased but: saratoga flt 74 ; lexington flt 62


only 3 hexs remain to dock(size 2),but i'm very worried



are you sure full speed doesn't increase flood damage?



While it seems reasonable that flank speed would increase flotation damage IRL, in the game we have no definite evidence that it does so. The increase that you see in this case is mainly due to the effects of fighting the fires - which definitely increases the flooding on a ship.



What are the weather conditions like? As said above,I also think that weather may well have an impact on your situation. Just be glad you aren't playing Japanese or you'd be preparing yourself for loss of two CV's.

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/30/2008 11:26:17 PM   
qwetry


Posts: 44
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Sicily, Italy
Status: offline 		the weather conditions were good

mission complete,CVs are docked 
but they are very damaged...
lexington sys 85 flt 86;saratoga sys 56 flt 79

but they are safe,this is more important 








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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/30/2008 11:38:31 PM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5517
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		UH, docked helps some, but I would still be very worried until flt damage is under 50.

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/30/2008 11:49:21 PM   
Gem35


Posts: 3412
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: qwetry

the weather conditions were good

mission complete,CVs are docked 
but they are very damaged...
lexington sys 85 flt 86;saratoga sys 56 flt 79

but they are safe,this is more important 




@ a size 2 port and even with Allied Flood control working overtime,You may well lose Lady Lex, Sara should make it though.
Good Luck!






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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 4/30/2008 11:51:39 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22515
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay


quote:

ORIGINAL: qwetry

a day has passed and now my CVs now are more flood damaged...

the fire is ceased but: saratoga flt 74 ; lexington flt 62


only 3 hexs remain to dock(size 2),but i'm very worried



are you sure full speed doesn't increase flood damage?



While it seems reasonable that flank speed would increase flotation damage IRL, in the game we have no definite evidence that it does so. The increase that you see in this case is mainly due to the effects of fighting the fires - which definitely increases the flooding on a ship.

Yep - fire fighting does flood the ships...

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 5/1/2008 12:13:25 AM   
qwetry


Posts: 44
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Sicily, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

quote:

ORIGINAL: qwetry

the weather conditions were good

mission complete,CVs are docked 
but they are very damaged...
lexington sys 85 flt 86;saratoga sys 56 flt 79

but they are safe,this is more important 




@ a size 2 port and even with Allied Flood control working overtime,You may well lose Lady Lex, Sara should make it though.
Good Luck!







sara has docked a day before than lexington,in one day flt decreased by 1(80 to 79),it should be safe
while lexington has arrived now,i must wait next turn to know her future,but now i'm very worried...




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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 5/1/2008 12:25:10 AM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12401
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Status: offline 		Any AR's close enough to get there to help? They make a difference.

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 5/1/2008 12:25:28 AM   
Tophat1812

 

Posts: 1459
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Status: offline 		I may just be missing it but what is the size of the port that Lex is docked at?

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RE: is full speed dangerous for flooded ship? - 5/1/2008 12:27:06 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3412
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: qwetry

a day has passed and now my CVs now are more flood damaged...

the fire is ceased but: saratoga flt 74 ; lexington flt 62


only 3 hexs remain to dock(size 2),but i'm very worried



are you sure full speed doesn't increase flood damage?

Apparantly they are docked at a size 2 port.


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